Ivermectin: balance of evidence shows no benefit against Covid-19

[DA-LION-619]

It's my understanding IVM was actually being studied around that time for various viruses but there was no pressure to find an immediate cure.

But then where’s all that data?

 

[Swa]

Sheep dip seems to be the new trigger word

Because people are misusing it to discredit something that's been administered more than 4bn times since its discovery in the 80's for human consumption.

 

[DA-LION-619]

Because people are misusing it to discredit something that's been administered more than 4bn times since its discovery in the 80's for human consumption.

Where’s the data then for its effects on SARS and MERS?

 

[SoldierMan]

Don't talk kak. It fcvking well is sheep dip and has been for decades. I live in a sheep farming area. Suggest you come tell these farmers they're wrong.

You really are a complete dunce sometimes.

It was FIRST used to treat humans for diseases like River Blindness, Elephantitias and other parasite diseases.

It was LATER repurposed for use in animals.

Get your facts straight.

 

[Swa]

But then where’s all that data?

Some of it has been posted here, from as early as 2002 or before. It's not something that only fell on the radar with Covid as it's known to have an anti-viral effect.

Where’s the data then for its effects on SARS and MERS?

I don't know.

 

[Geoff.D]

@Geoff.D Do you know the treatment regimens against which IVM is compared? I assume non-RCT studies will be the standard treatments but surely most of the RCT studies as well?

Sorry, I took the day off today, due to other commitments. Will post later.

 

[Geoff.D]

So if IVM is as effective as you say and it's not under patent anymore, then presumably all pharmaceutical companies are free to make and sell? Seems like a money making scheme to me with no R&D costs. So why would they not pump out a generic version by the billion if it's all about money?

IVM is out of patent. And plenty of people are making it because IVM remains listed as an essential medicine by the WHO. Hence they are making money out of IVM hand over fist regardless of what happens with this debate about its effectiveness in the treatment of Covid or any other virus-related disease that it might be under trial for. (Covid 19 is NOT the only disease that IVM is under trial as a possible treatment).

You can be damn sure the big players like Merck are still producing it. And they are quite happy to sell it as a substance to others who might be compounding it in liquid or tablet form for human use.

 

[Geoff.D]

Where was IVM for SARS and then MERS?

There are trial reports that cover both.

 

[Geoff.D]

Well then why aren't governments like India making it to ease disease burden when they got snowed under by the Delta? And people are still taking it yet still die with no conclusive evidence that it works better than drinking water.

They did and some states are still. The problem just about every country in the World is influenced by what that useless lot called the WHO say and do and that in turn influences the regulators and the regulators make it difficult for doctors to prescribe even under emergency regulations (SAHPRA has authorised its use for treating Covid 19 under emergency authorisation).

 

[Spizz]

IVM is out of patent. And plenty of people are making it because IVM remains listed as an essential medicine by the WHO. Hence they are making money out of hand over fist regardless of what happens with this debate about its effectiveness in the treatment of Covid or any other virus-related disease that it might be under trial for. (Covid 19 is NOT the only disease that IVM is under trial as a possible treatment).

You can be damn sure the big players like Merck are still producing it. And they are quite happy to sell it as a substance to others who might be compounding it in liquid or tablet form for human use.

So why wouldn’t big pharmacy be pushing this as a possible solution and pushing the studies ? It makes no sense not to. This could be a major cash cow.

 

[SoldierMan]

So why wouldn’t big pharmacy be pushing this as a possible solution and pushing the studies ? It makes no sense not to. This could be a major cash cow.

How many times do we have to repeat this???

Because there is money to be made from other more expensive drugs.

 

[Geoff.D]

@Geoff.D
Took some notes but they are a mess, so here is some info he mentioned on IVM.

Would be worth your while to go to 36:40 in the video and just watch the bit on IVM, he goes into why he chose it with details that I couldn't pick up.

He has no access to IVM, if he did it would be his drug of choice.
It's a section 21 drug, forced doctors to look elsewhere. In the first wave he had access to 20 tablets and used them as a single dose and saw improvement within single day. Third wave used in post 8th day but is aware of success in early stages and prophylaxis and all phases.

Dr Syed the person interviewing Dr Chetty said he uses IVM profusely for his patients and has had no deaths, hospitalisations and none of his patients developed long Covid.

Dr Chetty mentions another doctor he is in contact with and he uses a higher dose and the patients don't progress further in their illness.

IVM aside now, Dr Chetty (47:30) said he was approached by another doctor in SA that said he chased oxygen and lost a lot of patients in the first wave, in second wave he moved onto the WHO protocols (Remdesivir, etc.) but still lost a lot of patients, then he decided to try Dr Chetty's protocol and has been through 150 patients and hasn't had a hospitalisation or death yet and hasn't needed the supply of oxygen that he built up either.

Thanks I think I will take you up on this.
Many thanks for your efforts

 

[Geoff.D]

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a hypothetical cognitive bias stating that people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability.

As described by social psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger, the bias results from an internal illusion in people of low ability and from an external misperception in people of high ability; that is, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others".[1] It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from people's inability to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, people cannot objectively evaluate their level of competence.

The effect, or Dunning and Kruger's original explanation for the effect, has been challenged by mathematical analyses[2][3][4][5][6][7] and comparisons across cultures.[8][9]

Outside psychology, non-professionals often invoke the Dunning-Kruger effect to insult people. Mark Murphy calls this abuse of the theory a form of "weaponized psychology".[10]

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In short people with low ability in a field can't recognise that low ability because you require at least moderate ability to know what you're not good at. While at the other end of the scale people who are indeed trained enough lose the ability to recognise when others are indeed competent enough.

And that IS the only understanding that CD has about the subject. He only knows about its negative connotations because his ONLY debating style is to insult, belittle and intimidate his perceived opponents.

I am starting to wonder if he should not be investigated for being an ex BOSS interrogator ........

 

[Spizz]

How many times do we have to repeat this???

Because there is money to be made from other more expensive drugs.

Surely there is money to be made from any drug that works. Why would they overlook a cheap drug that could bring in billions of dollars in revenues just by sheer volume alone?

 

[SoldierMan]

Surely there is money to be made from any drug that works. Why would they overlook a cheap drug that could bring in billions of dollars in revenues just by sheer volume alone?

If there is billions to be made from a $3 drug, how much more to be made from a $3000 drug.

Still not getting it?

 

[Howdy]

Sheep dip seems to be the new troll word

okay

 

[Geoff.D]

But then where’s all that data?

As you told me, go and look for it ------- And I posted numerous links about all the questions you guys keep asking. Every time I post a genuine peer-reviewed paper and report, all I get is a deathly silence.
Either you lot can't read and comprehend the contents or, you are shocked to find that there IS a huge amount of scientifically substantiated knowledge out there about IVM, the dosage required to achieve various concentration levels in humans what is required to treat a long list of virus-related infections.

 

[Geoff.D]

Where’s the data then for its effects on SARS and MERS?

Go and look for it yourself for a change.

 

[Spizz]

If there is billions to be made from a $3 drug, how much more to be made from a $3000 drug.

Still not getting it?

No, I’m not. Your playground argument needs some weight behind it. Please clarify.

Are you saying there is no profit to be made in a R45 drug that will have to be made and sold in a quantity of billions?

 

[Swa]

So why wouldn’t big pharmacy be pushing this as a possible solution and pushing the studies ? It makes no sense not to. This could be a major cash cow.

How many times do we have to repeat this???

Because there is money to be made from other more expensive drugs.