Ivermectin: balance of evidence shows no benefit against Covid-19

[Mike Hoxbig]

a fact check article is about as useful as a f-ing wikipedia article

no, not my turn, I gave you a Lancet paper, don't come here with your McDonald's version of the truth

Jeez you're like a fcking child. Here...

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

You have completely misread the tone of either of those releases.

In the medical world when you use terms like "poor evidence" and "not recommended" it means when you get sued it will count against you that you did use it.

it also means nobody is going to take your licence away for merely prescribing it

if you get sued sure, doctors can get sued over any damn thing so it's not exactly new, fact remains nothing is preventing them from prescribing IVM and there are no automatic consequences either

I did find it humorous that our very own .gov could make complete false statements like IVM not being approved for humans (it is) and not being available in South Africa in human medication form (it is)

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Jeez you're like a fcking child. Here...

no that would be you, McDonald's AGAIN, jesus everything with the word "medical" in the title isn't actually by professionals, you know that right?

and yet again your article mentions "fact check" in it

awaiting a proper source, such as the widely respected Lancet, don't go off googling for "medical expert fact check immune escape blablabla", your results are a dead giveaway

 

[PsyWulf]

Again,to highlight for the faux-lectuals
Antigenic drift is not caused by vaccines,quite the opposite
Lack of immune response and more targets allows for natural antigenic drift (a natural mutation where the virus spike-proteins change and become less identifiable to the auto-immune system) to have more chances to occur
Covidiots are a far better vector for causing worse variants,and then you'll cry when more lockdowns occur and happily crow about how see vaccines dont work! Yes you numbskulls,you caused the one thing that could help to be less effective

I'll reiterate,get an education

 

[Nerfherder]

it also means nobody is going to take your licence away for merely prescribing it

if you get sued sure, doctors can get sued over any damn thing so it's not exactly new, fact remains nothing is preventing them from prescribing IVM and there are no automatic consequences either

I did find it humorous that our very own .gov could make complete false statements like IVM not being approved for humans (it is) and not being available in South Africa in human medication form (it is)

They get to decide these things so regardless of if it is actually useful, they do get to make these decisions.

 

[Geoff.D]

and just take the goddamn vaccine.

Until the vaccines, as they are at the moment become tomorrows snake oil. And don't believe for one moment that won't happen.

 

[TofuMofu]

Just going to leave this here:

Ivermectin infertility story correction: FDA rejects 2011 Nigeria study

A national story regarding Ivermectin and a study regarding its effect on men’s reproductive health that KTSM published, has been removed from our website.

www.wfla.com

I think it's good that idiots have been taking this...don't need them to breed more stupid people.

 

[Geoff.D]

I'm trying to look at this objectively. Even that is likely when the virus was a complete unknown. They had to prescribe something to help at least treat the symptoms. Then you also have to look at vaccine availability, and whether the patient was vaccinated or refused to be vaccinated prior to contracting the disease and seeing the doctor.

There are too many unknowns and circumstances beyond "a doctor prescribed it and therefore it must work". For the record, I've been prescribed incorrect medication in the past, requiring a second opinion. Others have too. Even GPs don't always get it right...

The only logical and well-reasoned response you have made in this entire debate. There is hope for you yet.
The fact is with most illnesses, doctors prescribe medications to treat the symptoms and then hopefully that actually does also tackle the cause.

And no, before the vaccines arrived on the scene, there was nothing else other than doctor's personal experience and ability to treat the symptoms while the body fought off the virus. There has only recently been one drug "approved" to deal with the virus directly and that is Remdevisir (costs a fortune and is just about not being used at all in SA).

And no, a patients status regarding being vaccinated or not, is not going to influence the treatment much at the moment, UNLESS the doctor concerned can see from his diagnosis that the patient is only mildly sick -- the treatment is likely to remain exactly the same whatever its. He might be careful and check for contra-indications that indicated some drugs should not be used on patients who have had the vaccine.

And yes, there is plenty still unknown about this virus. The search for effective treatments, whether this comes from repurposed drugs or a new blue pill is far from over.

It does not matter what drugs a doctor chooses to use, it is his training and experience that guides home first and foremost. And just BTW, HCQ IS still being used to treat Covid 19 patients regardless of what the regulators have had to say about it in conjunction with other medications.

 

[Geoff.D]

scientific consensus is that it is useless and there is no evidence for its use in covid cases

The scientific consensus is NOT that it is useless, the question is still open. The current ruling is "neither for nor against". There are still trials underway and there ARE many doctors all over the World who are using it because they and their patients believe it works.

 

[Geoff.D]

Many are taking it as a prophylaxis and getting it from the co-op. People should speak out against that.

Yes and those of us on this thread in favour of IVM have said that over and over again, that we are NOT promoting self-medication with animal products. You can speak out against this practice without personal attacks, insults and exagerations.

 

[greg0205]

Until the vaccines, as they are at the moment become tomorrows snake oil. And don't believe for one moment that won't happen.

5.56 Billion shots have already been administered in what is arguably the most hyper-analysed vaccine roll-out in human history.

No reporting on new infections, hospitalisations or deaths that I've seen have given me a moment's pause about my decision to jump in the queue for those Pfizer shots just as soon as I could.

 

[Geoff.D]

The biggest call out here is that it can't actually be prescribed here so any doctor who is recommending it is doing so at risk of losing their licence.

The is also NOT so. The use of IVM to treat Covid 19 is perfectly legal in SA as determined by a Court Case.

There is NO risk of them losing their licence. There is NO risk from a safety point either.

 

[PsyWulf]

Just going to leave this here:

Ivermectin infertility story correction: FDA rejects 2011 Nigeria study

A national story regarding Ivermectin and a study regarding its effect on men’s reproductive health that KTSM published, has been removed from our website.

www.wfla.com

I think it's good that idiots have been taking this...don't need them to breed more stupid people.

Incoming
Uptick in vaccination reaches record levels
Turns out men care more about a hard todger than dying

 

[Geoff.D]

Nobody ever claimed that the vaccine prevents the spread.

Not so. Last year during the testing phases many experts said exactly this over and over again. When the truth started to emerge they changed their story and it morphed until we are left with reduces chances of severe illness, might reduce viral loads and hence might reduce the spread of the disease, and definitely reduces the risk of death.

 

[Geoff.D]

Its well known that many Gp's just prescribe anything just so the patient feels like they are getting something. Many people wont leave without a prescription.

Hearsay and an urban legend at best. JS? Is he questioning the integrity of the health profession or what?

 

[Geoff.D]

Its been posted a few times already - Health department sent out an official notice on it.

No, they did not. They recommend it does not get prescribed that is all, it is NOT prohibited and BTW the DoH has no powers to prohibit its use after the Court case ruled against the DoH's puppets in SAHPRA.

 

[Geoff.D]

So that you lessen the chance of creating new mutations, and therefore rendering the vaccines less effective to those who did actually get it...

The vaccines are believed to reduce mutations by reducing the pool of people at risk who have issues with their immune systems.

There is however the ADE issue that is now starting to be quite well documented as already posted by others.

Or are you denying the evidence of breakthrough infections and now everything about how those breakthroughs are happening?

 

[Geoff.D]

@NarrowBandFtw

COVID-19 Coronavirus - Ivermectin | South African Government

www.gov.za

Update on the use of ivermectin in the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 - SAHPRA

28 January 2021 The second wave of the COVID-19 epidemic in South Africa has put enormous pressure on all aspects of South Africa’s health system and on its communities. SAHPRA appreciates the frustration and pain experienced by healthcare practitioners, patients and families given the limited...

www.sahpra.org.za

"Can only be used in a clinical trial"

We got a more recent communication from the HPCSA indicating that you could lose your licence if prescribing. Will have to hunt that down.

“There is currently insufficient evidence to recommend ivermectin for the treatment of patients with COVID‐19.”

Good luck in your hunt for a document that goes against the Court Case allowing its use under section 21 of the ACT administered by SAHPRA.

 

[Geoff.D]

You have completely misread the tone of either of those releases.

In the medical world when you use terms like "poor evidence" and "not recommended" it means when you get sued it will count against you that you did use it.

That may be so, BUT you are ignoring a Court Case ruling which forced SAHPRA to allow the compounding of IVM for human use in SA as well as allowing doctors to prescribe the drug to patients in their care.
The decision is the doctor's themselves, and if they comply with the conditions stipulated by SAHPRA the prescribing of IVM is legal in SA or ANY illness the doctor deems it suitable to treat.

The HPCSA might believe they have the powers to go against a court ruling, and doctors who do not want to take the so-called risk are free to do so.

 

[Geoff.D]

Just going to leave this here:

Ivermectin infertility story correction: FDA rejects 2011 Nigeria study

A national story regarding Ivermectin and a study regarding its effect on men’s reproductive health that KTSM published, has been removed from our website.

www.wfla.com

I think it's good that idiots have been taking this...don't need them to breed more stupid people.

That specific study has been discredited long ago.