Ivermectin: balance of evidence shows no benefit against Covid-19

Geoff.D

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An article that might open the minds of all these doubters.

That is if they have the guts to read it and accept it is gonna seriously threaten just about all their pre-conceived beliefs about IVM.


Will add some key sections out of the study. Note it is NOT another attempt at some sort of double-blind screwed-up trial for the likes to the Twitter Nnerd to try and tear apart but a scientific article dealing in facts with an occasional reference to trials underway.
 

Nerfherder

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Here is a pubmed article:
The results revealed that administration of ivermectin once weekly for 8 weeks induced slight fertility disturbances. While, pre-treatment with verapamil disturbed male fertility through altering different sperm parameters and histological structure of reproductive organs.

 

Geoff.D

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Safety:
Moreover, severe detrimental effects in humans were shown only in those who over-dosed using approximately 15.4 mg/kg body weight IVM, which is 77 times above the prescribed dose.

Implication:
1. There is plenty of "headroom" available for researchers to find optimal dosages to use against Covid 19.
2. Secondly, There is pretty much zero chance that anyone taking current dosages under the guidance of a doctor is in any danger of overdosing or experiencing any serious adverse reactions..

Antiviral Activity has been documented since about 2003:

However, not much effort was placed into completing trials against viral infections until about 2011.

The potential of IVM as an inhibitor of nuclear transport of viral proteins was initially suggested in 2011
For example, IVM prevented nuclear translocation of nsp5 in Dengue virus, West Nile virus, and influenza and inhibited transport of large tumor antigen (Tag) in simian virus .........
Although IVM possessed a potent antiviral activity (IC50= ~2mM), no cytotoxicity was detected at any time points in this study
Addresses the issues about dosages required that may be enough to directly act as an antiviral against the Covid virus, which addresses the issues about dosages needed to "kill" the virus raised today by someone.
Note: I posted the same conclusion weeks ago as a result of my own analysis of the available research. It is quite gratifying to find out that my understanding of the entire subject matter is pretty good for an amateur and non-medical person.

More evidence of antiviral activity and proof why IVM needs to be researched further:
IVM was shown to specifically inhibit IMP a/b mediated nuclear import required for replication of HIV-1 and Dengue virus, and therefore it was proposed as the potential mechanism by which it inhibits SARS-CoV-2.
Hypoxia impact:
IVM was also shown to disrupt the oxygen regulatory mechanisms. ......
Indeed, it was shown that IVM results in decreased association between HIFa and IMPa, preventing its path into the nucleus.
Read up for yourselves why this is relevant to how the Covid virus affect human cells.

The half-life of IVM: Note who did these studies! And then try and explain why MERCK are so adamant that IVM should NOT be used in the treatment of Covid 19????
Pharmacokinetic studies conducted by MERCK show that IVM plasma concentrations peak after 4 hours, following 12 mg doses in healthy human volunteers (42). Subsequently, it is metabolized in the liver and its break down products are mainly excreted in the feces over a period of 12 days. Its halflife is around 18 hrs. Moreover, it was shown that it does not bind permanently to its target proteins.

Dosage issues: Further studies are required.
Thus far, studies on IVM highlight that it remains important to identify the specific dose of IVM that may reduce viral load, without adverse effects, in humans and to understand if it will differentially affect male and female COVID-19 patients.
More on Safety:
IVM’s toxic effects are short term and are usually resolved. Studies exploring the adverse event profiles of patients on
high doses of IVM have also been conducted. ............ adverse events reported as having no clinical or biochemical significance.
Some Conclusions:
The available data fromIVMclinical trials lack uniformity and have not established the optimal anti-viral dose. However, the evidence does support its safety and efficacy in improving survival rates, especially compared to the other aforementioned drugs. It is important to note that past research has demonstrated the importance of combined, rather than anti-viral monotherapy.
In other words, IVM should be used in conjunction with other drugs in the treatment of Covid 19. Strange this is it not? Amazing that the doctors using it ARE doing excactly that hey? Makes you think.
As evident by the ongoing clinical trials for the treatment of COVID-19, the most efficient decrease in mortality (0%) was largely a result of multiple prescribed drugs including IVM, hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin or IVM and
doxycyline.
Oops! HCQ? :unsure: Now I wonder why that poor drug has been vilified as well? Hmmm, more big pharma dirty tricks??? :unsure: Merck has known much of this already?? Deliberately suppressing at all? Ja-nee.
Given the wide use of numerous drugs to treat COVID-19 patients, it remains imperative to explore the optimal combination of various therapies. Notably, the clinical outcomes upon prescribing IVM on its own did not result in significantly improved outcomes for COVID-19 patients and nor should it be particularly encouraged.
Final comments:
The available data thus far suggests a favorable outcome when using IVM in specific doses and in particular drug combinations. It remains imperative to establish the most effective doses, combination, and timing of drug administration as it may largely determine the therapeutic outcome. ..........
it is critical that further specific and well-designed studies are carried out to validate the therapeutic potential of IVM.
 
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Sensorei

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Correct. As an anti parasitic, not an anti viral. Just like Panado is approved for human use as an analgesic, not an antibiotic.
Just because it is not approved, does not mean it is not an effective anti-viral. That is not how clinical approval works. There are plenty of drugs tested in trials that have the desired affect, but even a 0.1% serious adverse efffect eliminates any further research, EVEN WHEN the adverse effects do not happen at low doses. They have to be THAT careful.

Take 15 minutes to read peer reviewed studies on Pubmed (every medical doctor goes here for info) where ivermectin was successfully used against at least a few other RNA viruses in humans like dengue, nile virus, avian influenza, some encephalitis strain, and others.

Stupid people take high doses of ivermectin and overdose. Yes that's why it is very risky, but it's safe in low doses according to all studies on pubmed from the last 10 years. In HIV treatment it reduced viral replication but people got side effects because doses were higher and for longer duration.

My argument is not that ivermectin is an alternative to the vaccines or a very effective treatment for most covid patients. But it is a very cheap and harnless in low doses and if it might help what is the harm? Yes stupid people will take too much and OD. Stupid people will always screw things up for everyone else.
 

Sensorei

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Here is a pubmed article:


Yes, but the dose was equivalent to more than 10x the recommended equivalent dose in humans. If you take 10x the recommended dose of ibuprofen you will die of organ failure with a couple of years.
 

Nerfherder

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You stated it yourself...
The crux of the matter is the approval for human use.
It is for human use.
/end
I have been hunting out this info and found this, I believe it relates to malpractice insurance:
@Geoff.D

Clinical considerations

  • Unless a product is obtained from an authorised source that complies with SAHPRA standards, its quality is unknown. A recent study that analysed seven ivermectin formulations being sold in South Africa for human use, demonstrated that four of five formulations tested had at least one additional undeclared active pharmaceutical ingredient (API), while another product had seven. These active ingredients ranged from non-steroidal anti-inflammatories to anti-depressants, and from anti-platelet to antiemetic drugs amongst others. Other than not knowing the quantity of ivermectin in any product purchased illegally, there are safety concerns with regards to these unknown additional ingredients that can cause unexpected allergic reactions, drug interactions and side-effects specific to any undeclared ingredient.
  • Various local and international authorities like SAHPRA, FDA and the European Medicines Agency have highlighted that the benefit risk ratio of ivermectin in COVID-19 patients remains unknown. Based on published studies, no recommendations in terms of whether treatment works and adverse events justify any potential benefit, can be made.
  • Given clinical equipoise with regards to use of ivermectin in COVID-19, as described in point 2. above, patients for whom treatment is considered should, wherever possible, be enrolled in relevant therapeutic trials.
Taking the above into consideration, the policyholder was advised that, unless ivermectin is attained via an acceptable source, and in accordance with the Section 21 processes, their actions would be deemed unlawful and unethical according to the HPCSA’s ethical and professional rules.

“Merely accepting the fact that the family is in possession of ivermectin, without anything else, could have onerous unintended effects for the doctor, including being charged for unprofessional conduct by the HPCSA, tried criminally or being civilly pursued,” advises Dr Hlombe Makuluma, EthiQal’s medicolegal advisor.


Legal considerations


  • Given that no ivermectin formulations for human use are registered in South Africa, the drug can only be administered legally in South Africa, if authorised on a named patient basis by the South African Health Products Regulatory Authority (SAHPRA), which is enabled to do so by Section 21 of the Medicines and Related Substances Control Act (Act no. 1010 of 1965). According to SAHPRA , license to use ivermectin will only be granted if the following requirements are met:
  • The relevant SAHPRA application form has been completed and submitted. As part of this process, the doctor must also agree to provide feedback to SAHPRA on any adverse events encountered by any patient during treatment.
  • The source of ivermectin product to be used meets appropriate quality assurance standards. This includes that the product must have been supplied by a duly authorised importer that is compliant with the set requirements for authorisation, and where the product has a product validation report, a certificate of analysis, and outcomes of post-importation testing.
  • When access is required on an urgent basis, SAHPRA guidelines make provision for treatment to be initiated at the same time as an application for use for an individual patient. There is also a court order to this effect. There is no need to await approval by SAHPRA in these instances.
  • Licensed healthcare facilities or medical practitioners with a dispensing licence, may apply for authorisation to hold emergency stock of an ivermectin product obtained from an authorised importer, to ensure availability of certified products when prescribed.
  • Where ivermectin is prescribed as part of SAHPRA’s compassionate use programme, the prescriber must ensure that the patient, or legal representative, has provided signed informed consent to the use of the drug.

Basically your malpractice insurance gets wonky if you prescribe it, reason being is that we don't have human grade IVM in SA. Still missing the HPCSA statement but this statement follows on from that.

I know we are all having fun arguing its use but I think there are some important points here for those wishing to try this treatment.

IF you had human grade IVM just casually sitting in your dispensary you would have to prove that it was obtained by a valid source and it must be a last resort.
 
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Nerfherder

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Yes, but the dose was equivalent to more than 10x the recommended equivalent dose in humans. If you take 10x the recommended dose of ibuprofen you will die of organ failure with a couple of years.
Dosage is one of the biggest questions.... so I think its still valid seeming as people are just taking this stuff without the guidance of a doctor.

50 Pandado's will kill you and yet its still the most useful drug available.
 

Nerfherder

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Just because it is not approved, does not mean it is not an effective anti-viral. That is not how clinical approval works. There are plenty of drugs tested in trials that have the desired affect, but even a 0.1% serious adverse efffect eliminates any further research, EVEN WHEN the adverse effects do not happen at low doses. They have to be THAT careful.

Take 15 minutes to read peer reviewed studies on Pubmed (every medical doctor goes here for info) where ivermectin was successfully used against at least a few other RNA viruses in humans like dengue, nile virus, avian influenza, some encephalitis strain, and others.
But not covid
Stupid people take high doses of ivermectin and overdose. Yes that's why it is very risky, but it's safe in low doses according to all studies on pubmed from the last 10 years. In HIV treatment it reduced viral replication but people got side effects because doses were higher and for longer duration.

My argument is not that ivermectin is an alternative to the vaccines or a very effective treatment for most covid patients. But it is a very cheap and harnless in low doses and if it might help what is the harm? Yes stupid people will take too much and OD. Stupid people will always screw things up for everyone else.
But there is actual evidence for the use of steroids in treating covid... so why not use that ?
 

Geoff.D

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Basically your malpractice insurance gets wonky if you prescribe it, reason being is that we don't have human grade IVM in SA.
Great the lawyers playing their usual crappy games!

The highlighted section IS the important point.

The doctors in SA ARE prescribing IVM in terms of section 21.
Bang goes most of that legalese you posted into the wastebasket!

Secondly, we DO have local sources of human-grade IVM in SA, compounded locally by local licensed compound chemists as per a doctors prescription.

They were all part of the court case which our illustrious SAHPRA LOST!

Bang goes the rest of the legalese into the watebasket.

TUFF on those doctors who want to use unauthorised unapproved imports of IVM, THEIR PROBLEM!
 

Sensorei

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But not covid

But there is actual evidence for the use of steroids in treating covid... so why not use that ?
Wrong. There is PLENTY of scientific evidence showing legit efficacy against covid-19 as well, published on the world's biggest trusted library of peer reviewed clinical studies, The National Library of medicine, Pubmed.gov.

These aren't tin foil hat studies done by dodgy doctors. I also thought that Ivermectin was a crock of $hit until I did the research and then researched who did the studies. 2 studies claiming it is ineffective were done by scientists working for organisations funded by the same big pharma funders who funded the vaccine research.

All of these were done at top Universities or approved by national research councils.

A five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness​


Ivermectin as a potential drug for treatment of COVID-19: an in-sync review with clinical and computational attributes​


Evaluation of the effectiveness and safety of adding ivermectin to treatment in severe COVID-19 patients​


Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 Infection: A Systematic Review, Meta-analysis, and Trial Sequential Analysis to Inform Clinical Guidelines​

Screenshot 2021-09-10 at 02.04.37.png
 
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quovadis

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An article that might open the minds of all these doubters.

That is if they have the guts to read it and accept it is gonna seriously threaten just about all their pre-conceived beliefs about IVM.


Will add some key sections out of the study. Note it is NOT another attempt at some sort of double-blind screwed-up trial for the likes to the Twitter Nnerd to try and tear apart but a scientific article dealing in facts with an occasional reference to trials underway.
You might want to preface that this is a review and not a study. Cherry picking from such and presenting as fact rather than hypothesis is problematic.
 

quovadis

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The doctors in SA ARE prescribing IVM in terms of section 21
The question is if all doctors are complying with the requirements under section 21 including registration/application etc.
Secondly, we DO have local sources of human-grade IVM in SA, compounded locally by local licensed compound chemists as per a doctors prescription.
There is a list of approved products for use specifically under this S21 authorisation.
They were all part of the court case which our illustrious SAHPRA LOST!
I’m not sure anyone lost anything - the S21 process is nothing new.
 

Nerfherder

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Great the lawyers playing their usual crappy games!

The highlighted section IS the important point.

The doctors in SA ARE prescribing IVM in terms of section 21.
Bang goes most of that legalese you posted into the wastebasket!

Secondly, we DO have local sources of human-grade IVM in SA, compounded locally by local licensed compound chemists as per a doctors prescription.

They were all part of the court case which our illustrious SAHPRA LOST!

Bang goes the rest of the legalese into the watebasket.

TUFF on those doctors who want to use unauthorised unapproved imports of IVM, THEIR PROBLEM!
explain what you understand section 21 to be.
 

Nerfherder

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Wrong. There is PLENTY of scientific evidence showing legit efficacy against covid-19 as well, published on the world's biggest trusted library of peer reviewed clinical studies, The National Library of medicine, Pubmed.gov.

These aren't tin foil hat studies done by dodgy doctors. I also thought that Ivermectin was a crock of $hit until I did the research and then researched who did the studies. 2 studies claiming it is ineffective were done by scientists working for organisations funded by the same big pharma funders who funded the vaccine research.

All of these were done at top Universities or approved by national research councils.

A five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness​


Ivermectin as a potential drug for treatment of COVID-19: an in-sync review with clinical and computational attributes​


Evaluation of the effectiveness and safety of adding ivermectin to treatment in severe COVID-19 patients​


Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 Infection: A Systematic Review, Meta-analysis, and Trial Sequential Analysis to Inform Clinical Guidelines​

View attachment 1144556
Thanks - reading now.

That last link seems to be the meta analysis for all the trials, I see they are recommending the use but admit that evidence is poor


1631256277565.png
 

Sensorei

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Thanks - reading now.

That last link seems to be the meta analysis for all the trials, I see they are recommending the use but admit that evidence is poor


View attachment 1144652
Nope. It's pretty confusing interpreting these studies sometimes. Results in clinical studies always include primary outcome measures and secondary outcome measures. The secondary outcome looks at use of ivermectin for more serious cases of covid-19 and when people are at the point of requiring mechanical ventilation. There is poor evidence to show ivermectin is beneficial past early stages... This Table 4 only refers to the information provided from 2 studies that were analysed for secondary outcomes.

For primary outcome (death from covid-19) measures, the 15 included clinical trials found that "ivermectin reduced the risk of death by an average of 62% compared with no ivermectin treatment ".
The evidence of this data was judged as MODERATE.


Evidence when grading quality of research is put into 4 standard categories. 'Moderate' being second after 'high'. Moderate definition means they believe that the true effect is probably close to the estimated effect.

Screenshot 2021-09-10 at 11.09.53.png
View attachment 1144828
 

Cosmik Debris

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An article that might open the minds of all these doubters.

That is if they have the guts to read it and accept it is gonna seriously threaten just about all their pre-conceived beliefs about IVM.


Will add some key sections out of the study. Note it is NOT another attempt at some sort of double-blind screwed-up trial for the likes to the Twitter Nnerd to try and tear apart but a scientific article dealing in facts with an occasional reference to trials underway.

So, you're capable of reading, understanding an interpreting this:

Its positive mRNA strand is translated within the host cell in order to, first, produce its own replication machinery, and second, to produce the structural components required to house viral progeny (10). Two-thirds of the genome code for two large polyproteins, pp1a and pp1ab. Once formed, the polyproteins are subsequently cleaved into 16 individual non-structural proteins (nsps), which primarily provide enzymatic activity (11). Three nsps (13) are cleaved by papain-like proteases (PLpro), which itself is localized within nsp3, and the rest are cleaved by the main protease (3C-like protease, 3CLpro) on nsp5 (1). As such, translation of the viral PLpro and 3CLpro are essential for efficient reproduction of the virus. Once the nsps are available, they cooperatively form the replicase-transcriptase complexes (RTCs), which are required for the production of new virions (12). Some nsps (3,4 and 6) induce the development of double membranes from the endoplasmic reticulum (E.R.), Golgi apparatus (G.A.) or the ER-Golgi intermediate compartment (ERGIC), which serve as foci for viral genesis (12). Collectively, the rest of the nsps in the RTC include RNA polymerase, helicase, exoribonuclease, and methyltransferase, among many others. The exact mechanism of replicating its own genome is still under investigation. However, it is understood that negative-sense intermediates are initially formed and then serve as templates for reproducing both genomic and sub-genomic positive-sense RNAs (13). A potential model for the RNA replication in SARS-CoV-2 has been postulated and it is based on homologous proteins in SARS-CoV-1 (10).

This:

The Role of Importins

Although RNA replication and translation occur in the cytosol, nuclear access is a key event in the infectious cycle of several viruses, including coronaviruses (1, 8). However, the entry of proteins into the nucleus is a tightly regulated process. To evade this limiting barrier, some viral proteins exploit the importin (IMP) superfamily of nuclear transporters to gain nuclear access (16). Nucleocytoplasmic trafficking is mediated via transmembrane nuclear pore complexes (NPCs) in the nucleus, composed of nucleoporin (NPR) subunits. A major class of NPRs known as FG-NPRs are distributed throughout the NPCs and enable nucleocytoplasmic transport due to their interaction with IMP transporters (17). The major IMP classes include IMPα and IMPβ. Nuclear import is mainly mediated either by IMPβs or by heterodimers of IMPα/IMPβ1 (1719). For cytosolic protein cargo destined for nuclear import, IMPs, particularly IMPα proteins, recognize nuclear localization signals (NLS) on target cargo proteins, whereas IMPβ facilitates the actual transport via the NPCs (18). Efficient target binding to the IMPs/EXPs is further supported by Ran, the small monomeric GTPase (20). Active Ran causes dissociation of IMPβ from the importin/NLS-protein complex, releasing its tethered cargo into the nucleus (21). Thus, for a potential SARS-CoV-2 protein to reach the nucleus, it must contain an NLS, properly interact with IMP proteins and Ran must be activated.

And this:

The Discovery of Ivermectin

IVM was originally discovered from organisms that were isolated from soil samples collected from the woods nearby to Kitasato Institute in Kawana, Japan. Fermentation products released by a bacterium from the soil, which was later classified as Streptomyces acermitilis, appeared to exhibit antiparasitic activity (specifically against Nematospiroides dubius). Purification and isolation of the bioactive compounds showed naturally occurring macrocyclic lactones, and these were subsequently named avermectins. Avermectins are made up of four compounds, which exist as two variants: A1, A2, B1, and B2. Variants ‘A’ and ‘B’ indicate the presence of methoxy or hydroxyl groups, respectively, at the C5 position. Number ‘1’ describes the double bond between C22 and C23. On the other hand, number ‘2’ indicates the presence of hydrogen at C22 and a hydroxyl group at C23. B1 avermectins were proven to be most active on oral administration, and on this basis, IVM was chemically derived. IVM contains an 80:20 combination of 22,23-dihydro-acvermectin B1a and 22,23-dihydro-avermectin B1b. Its antiparasitic effects are primarily caused by high-affinity irreversible binding to glutamate-gated chloride (Cl-) channels located on nerve and muscle cells of nematode, which leads to hyperpolarization (9, 31). Ultimately, the increased permeability to Cl- results in paralysis and death of the nematode (31).

Can you explain what was said to me please as I'm incapable of understanding it? Calling your BS.
 

Cosmik Debris

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Take 15 minutes to read peer reviewed studies on Pubmed (every medical doctor goes here for info) where ivermectin was successfully used against at least a few other RNA viruses in humans like dengue, nile virus, avian influenza, some encephalitis strain, and others.

I'm not qualified to read that and neither are those promoting Ivermectin here.
 
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