Ivermectin: balance of evidence shows no benefit against Covid-19

Cosmik Debris

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Feb 25, 2021
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You're going to be surprised next time you go for your decade yellow fever shot and the doc tells you you don't need to come back again ever....

Nope. I'm aware that yellow fever has been declared lifelong since 2016. Now tell me the expiry periods of the other vaccinations?
 

Swa

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May 4, 2012
Messages
30,109
So your GP, surgeon and anaesthetist do investigative medicine or documented procedures?
GP and surgeon yes, that's what they're training is for. Anaesthetist no.

Which organisation is at the apex of the structure?
Why do you insist on an organisation being at the apex? That's not how science works.

Point out any one that has proved their case scientifically?
Plenty of research has already been provided. I'm not gonna spoonfeed you when admittedly you won't even look at any of it.
 

Cosmik Debris

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Feb 25, 2021
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GP and surgeon yes, that's what they're training is for. Anaesthetist no.

GP and surgeon do investigative medicine? Define what you mean by investigative?

Why do you insist on an organisation being at the apex? That's not how science works.

Oh? Tell me how science works then if there is no apex authority?

Plenty of research has already been provided. I'm not gonna spoonfeed you when admittedly you won't even look at any of it.

Convenient.
 

Cosmik Debris

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Feb 25, 2021
Messages
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You did not seem to know that until it was pointed out here.

Correct. I had my last YF vac in 2016. Therefore I was not aware. We all learn as we go along. Now tell me about the validity of my other vacs?
 

Cosmik Debris

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Feb 25, 2021
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Go and playv20 questions some where else

You purport to know enough to be able to read the papers of top research scientists. I'm just questioning you at my level. So you should be able to respond to my questions which are asked to find out your level of knowledge. You should be able to teach me.

But the Socratic method of questioning I use has been known to infuriate those who purport to have knowledge they actually don't have as it causes them to realise they cannot answer the questions.

Your dismissal indicates that I have already achieved my goal very early on in proving your knowledge is lacking.
 

Swa

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Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
30,109
GP and surgeon do investigative medicine? Define what you mean by investigative?
Yes. Going into a patient's history, symptoms and presentation to come up with a diagnosis.

Oh? Tell me how science works then if there is no apex authority?
You come up with an idea. You do the research to support your idea. Others get to critique your idea or support it if your data and methodology is correct. More people from a wider discipline get to critique your work or the critique of your work. If your idea can withstand critique and you are lucky it gets accepted as an established theory.

Correct. I had my last YF vac in 2016. Therefore I was not aware. We all learn as we go along. Now tell me about the validity of my other vacs?
Yet you don't think others here can do the same.
 

Tandor

Active Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
52
@Cosmik Debris

I have just read an article on the India Bar association which is now taking the WHO to court.

The IBA’s 51-page notice, sent on 25 May, calls Swaminathan’s statements “highly unconscionable, misleading and issued with ulterior purposes and deliberate intention to underplay the effectiveness of Ivermectin in treating the Covid-19 patients as well as its use as a prophylaxis and to dissuade people from using this drug by creating doubts in the minds of people around safety of Ivermectin”.


Sounds much like #Afriforum which took SAHPRA to court to allow doctors to prescribe Ivermectin off label from compounding pharmacies and won the case and Sahpra had to pay the 1.8M court costs. Why would Afriforum want to take Sahpra to court in the first place?


It's not my duty to convince anyone about the benefits of Ivermectin. Each person has the right to their own option as it is their own life.

In my option, big pharma such as Merck and all the others are playing a dirty game to discredit Ivermectin as their is no profit to be made off an off-patent drug, but at the cost of human lives.
Over 4,Million people worldwide have died from covid. Dr Andrew Hill, advisor to WHO even in his last dismal paper that was done had shown a low 56% decrease in mortality. That is still over 2 Million people who's life would most likely have been spared if they did get the proper antiviral treatment. Other randomized trials show up to 80% efficacy when used as prophylaxis. But that you would have read if you bothered to lookup the layman's summary of the trials on https://ivmmeta.com

IVM safety record shows 20 deaths since 1992 after more than 3 Billion doses had been destributed. Merck distributed 55Mil doses themselves to successfully treat and irradiate RiverBlindness. I have a 1hr video interview with Roy Vagelos who was the CEO and founder or Merck who talks about their trials with Metctizan (Ivermectin) and how safe the drug is. FDA has reported that already 5208 deaths have occurred due to taking the vaccine and that is just in 1 year. IVM is even safer than panado at avg 458 deaths per year in the US alone and more than 100,000 hospitalizations. (Wiki paracetamol poisoning)

Funny how Merck the original manufacturer has now made the turnaround to say that they cannot recommend ivermectin as the safety has not been proven with Covid. Probably because they have been to busy with their new patented drug molnupiravir which the US goverment has PREpaid 1.2B$ US for 1.7 million courses of this antiviral drug which is only now starting trials.


Merck was coincidently also one of major sponsers for the last trial in which there was no apparent benefit seen and noted that there was increase ventilator use when using ivermectin. Wonder why this was not noted in any of the other 61 trials.

You know the saying Money or your Life. This should now be rewritten as "Money for your Life" thanks to big pharma.

So what antiviral medicines do our current state hospitals provide for outpatient to treat mild Covid Virus? Any? Sounds like big pharma pays your salary.
 
Last edited:

Geoff.D

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Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
24,684
You purport to know enough to be able to read the papers of top research scientists. I'm just questioning you at my level. So you should be able to respond to my questions which are asked to find out your level of knowledge. You should be able to teach me.

But the Socratic method of questioning I use has been known to infuriate those who purport to have knowledge they actually don't have as it causes them to realise they cannot answer the questions.

Your dismissal indicates that I have already achieved my goal very early on in proving your knowledge is lacking.
All you have achieved is to prove that you are just another cyber bully. And I don't play those games.
Enjoy the stupid game you are playing with SWA and that other idiot John Starr.

Or better still, I know where Hannibal Lector is, he also likes playing those games.
 
Last edited:

Geoff.D

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Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
24,684
@Cosmik Debris

I have just read an article on the India Bar association which is now taking the WHO to court.

The IBA’s 51-page notice, sent on 25 May, calls Swaminathan’s statements “highly unconscionable, misleading and issued with ulterior purposes and deliberate intention to underplay the effectiveness of Ivermectin in treating the Covid-19 patients as well as its use as a prophylaxis and to dissuade people from using this drug by creating doubts in the minds of people around safety of Ivermectin”.


Sounds much like #Afriforum which took SAHPRA to court to allow doctors to prescribe Ivermectin off label from compounding pharmacies and won the case and Sahpra had to pay the 1.8M court costs. Why would Afriforum want to take Sahpra to court in the first place?


It's not my duty to convince anyone about the benefits of Ivermectin. Each person has the right to their own option as it is their own life.

In my option, big pharma such as Merck and all the others are playing a dirty game to discredit Ivermectin as their is no profit to be made off an off-patent drug, but at the cost of human lives.
Over 4,Million people worldwide have died from covid. Dr Andrew Hill, advisor to WHO even in his last dismal paper that was done had shown a low 56% decrease in mortality. That is still over 2 Million people who's life would most likely have been spared if they did get the proper antiviral treatment. Other randomized trials show up to 80% efficacy when used as prophylaxis. But that you would have read if you bothered to lookup the layman's summary of the trials on https://ivmmeta.com

IVM safety record shows 20 deaths since 1992 after more than 3 Billion doses had been destributed. Merck distributed 55Mil doses themselves to successfully treat and irradiate RiverBlindness. I have a 1hr video interview with Roy Vagelos who was the CEO and founder or Merck who talks about their trials with Metctizan (Ivermectin) and how safe the drug is. FDA has reported that already 5208 deaths have occurred due to taking the vaccine and that is just in 1 year. IVM is even safer than panado at avg 458 deaths per year in the US alone and more than 100,000 hospitalizations. (Wiki paracetamol poisoning)

Funny how Merck the original manufacturer has now made the turnaround to say that they cannot recommend ivermectin as the safety has not been proven with Covid. Probably because they have been to busy with their new patented drug molnupiravir which the US goverment has PREpaid 1.2B$ US for 1.7 million courses of this antiviral drug which is only now starting trials.


Merck was coincidently also one of major sponsers for the last trial in which there was no apparent benefit seen and noted that there was increase ventilator use when using ivermectin. Wonder why this was not noted in any of the other 61 trials.

You know the saying Money or your Life. This should now be rewritten as "Money for your Life" thanks to big pharma.

So what antiviral medicines do our current state hospitals provide for outpatient to treat mild Covid Virus? Any? Sounds like big pharma pays your salary.
You are catching up fast. Almost there.
 

Geoff.D

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
24,684
Ja that was a joke.

I decided a few months ago to do some research of my own to try and find out what was going on on myBB with a few of the members who take extreme delight in creating conflict where none actually exists.

I thought when I started that there only a few of these members but have found many of them.

This one was rather easy to expose by simply playing his game for a while and luring him into exposing his true nature and the technique he uses. His own sense of superiority was enough to expose him quite easily, he could not resist in the end.

As soon as he mentioned the "Socrates Method", it was over.

The above method is supposed to be a method designed to encourage critical thinking and explore a subject in depth between a group interested in a particular subject.

But in the hands of a cyberbully (on and open forum such as this) it becomes a method to humiliate and intimidate the victim until he gives up. The very fact the the victim gives up is then gratifying to the bully because he believes he has exposed his victim in some way of another.

Cosmik Debris is one of these, through and through.

The moderators need to start doing something about these guys because all they actually do is shut down topic after topic for their perverse enjoyment.

It does not matter what the debate is about, either or how trivial the issue is.

Look at the latest example. SWA said something about a vaccination expiry date and CDs response is to now ask a question about the expiry dates of other unnamed vacs. He is not interested in those dates. You don't know what vacs he is referring to. He is trying to lure you into listing a whole string of vaccinations and dates that he can then use to ask further questions until you choose to give up and then he will claim some or other victory as a result.

In my case, I might as well responded with a statement about how to use a triangular bandage to make a sling. He would use that to asked another inane question, not to explore what a paramedic does but to try and get to a point where he could humiliate me in public.

When challenged he will try and make out as if he is "only teaching his victim something".

One of the ways to expose these guys is to try and lure them into debating something inconsequential until they make a mistake and then exposing them. The danger of course is that in the process, you might find yourself doing the same as they do so it is a fine line between becoming as evil as they are.

The moderators should take note of this and if they are serious about getting to grips with cyberbullying on myBB then here is someone they could make an example of.

There is in fact a very good thesis written by a South African dealing with this very topic if anyone wants to read about it. Send me a PM and I will send you the link, although it is quite easy to find.
 
Last edited:

RonSwanson

Executive Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
7,781
Ja that was a joke.

I decided a few months ago to do some research of my own to try and find out what was going on on myBB with a few of the members who take extreme delight in creating conflict where none actually exists.

I thought when I started that there only a few of these members but have found many of them.

This one was rather easy to expose by simply playing his game for a while and luring him into exposing his true nature and the technique he uses. His own sense of superiority was enough to expose him quite easily, he could not resist in the end.

As soon as he mentioned the "Socrates Method", it was over.

The above method is supposed to be a method designed to encourage critical thinking and explore a subject in depth between a group interested in a particular subject.

But in the hands of a cyberbully (on and open forum such as this) it becomes a method to humiliate and intimidate the victim until he gives up. The very fact the the victim gives up is then gratifying to the bully because he believes he has exposed his victim in some way of another.

Cosmik Debris is one of these, through and through.

The moderators need to start doing something about these guys because all they actually do is shut down topic after topic for their perverse enjoyment.

It does not matter what the debate is about, either or how trivial the issue is.

look at the latest example. SWA said something about a vaccination expiry date and CDs response is to now asked a question about the expiry dates of other unnamed vacs. he is not interested in those dates. You don't know what vacs he is referring to. He trying to lure you into listing a whole string of vaccinations and dates that he can then use to ask further questions until you choose to give up and then he will claim some or other victory as a result.

In my case, I might as well responded with a statement about how to use a triangular bandage to make a sling. He would use that to asked another inane question, not to explore what a paramedic does but to try and get to a point where he could humiliate me in public.

When challenged he will try and make out as if he is "only teaching his victim something".

One of the ways to expose these guys is to try and lure them into debating something inconsequential until they make a mistake and then exposing them. The danger of course is that in the process, you might find yourself doing the same as they do so it is a fine line between becoming as evil as they are.

The moderators should take note of this and if they are serious about getting to grips with cyberbullying on myBB then here is someone they could make an example of.

There is in fact a very good thesis written by a South African dealing with this very topic if anyone wants to read about it. Send me a PM and I will send you the link, although it is quite easy to find.
Thank you @Geoff.D.

I think that @Cosmik Debris does have some valuable information to share on some very specific topics, but agree that he isn't an expert on everything, such an individual does not exist.

@Cosmik Debris, please carry on sharing, you clearly have some good experience and knowledge, but at the same time, please don't be a bully. Let's all benefit from these diverse viewpoints, and respect all members. I don't always agree with everything that @Geoff.D says, but in some areas he certainly makes some good points, just like you in other areas. On this particular topic I am aligned with @Geoff.D , and whilst I am open to challenges, let's do it in a civil manner.
 

SoldierMan

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
8,442
@Cosmik Debris

I have just read an article on the India Bar association which is now taking the WHO to court.

The IBA’s 51-page notice, sent on 25 May, calls Swaminathan’s statements “highly unconscionable, misleading and issued with ulterior purposes and deliberate intention to underplay the effectiveness of Ivermectin in treating the Covid-19 patients as well as its use as a prophylaxis and to dissuade people from using this drug by creating doubts in the minds of people around safety of Ivermectin”.


Sounds much like #Afriforum which took SAHPRA to court to allow doctors to prescribe Ivermectin off label from compounding pharmacies and won the case and Sahpra had to pay the 1.8M court costs. Why would Afriforum want to take Sahpra to court in the first place?


It's not my duty to convince anyone about the benefits of Ivermectin. Each person has the right to their own option as it is their own life.

In my option, big pharma such as Merck and all the others are playing a dirty game to discredit Ivermectin as their is no profit to be made off an off-patent drug, but at the cost of human lives.
Over 4,Million people worldwide have died from covid. Dr Andrew Hill, advisor to WHO even in his last dismal paper that was done had shown a low 56% decrease in mortality. That is still over 2 Million people who's life would most likely have been spared if they did get the proper antiviral treatment. Other randomized trials show up to 80% efficacy when used as prophylaxis. But that you would have read if you bothered to lookup the layman's summary of the trials on https://ivmmeta.com

IVM safety record shows 20 deaths since 1992 after more than 3 Billion doses had been destributed. Merck distributed 55Mil doses themselves to successfully treat and irradiate RiverBlindness. I have a 1hr video interview with Roy Vagelos who was the CEO and founder or Merck who talks about their trials with Metctizan (Ivermectin) and how safe the drug is. FDA has reported that already 5208 deaths have occurred due to taking the vaccine and that is just in 1 year. IVM is even safer than panado at avg 458 deaths per year in the US alone and more than 100,000 hospitalizations. (Wiki paracetamol poisoning)

Funny how Merck the original manufacturer has now made the turnaround to say that they cannot recommend ivermectin as the safety has not been proven with Covid. Probably because they have been to busy with their new patented drug molnupiravir which the US goverment has PREpaid 1.2B$ US for 1.7 million courses of this antiviral drug which is only now starting trials.


Merck was coincidently also one of major sponsers for the last trial in which there was no apparent benefit seen and noted that there was increase ventilator use when using ivermectin. Wonder why this was not noted in any of the other 61 trials.

You know the saying Money or your Life. This should now be rewritten as "Money for your Life" thanks to big pharma.

So what antiviral medicines do our current state hospitals provide for outpatient to treat mild Covid Virus? Any? Sounds like big pharma pays your salary.

:love::love::thumbsup:
 

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
17,063
Yes. Going into a patient's history, symptoms and presentation to come up with a diagnosis.

Normal procedure. Investigative is when there are new presentations unknown to medical science. GP's refer those to specialists.

You come up with an idea. You do the research to support your idea. Others get to critique your idea or support it if your data and methodology is correct. More people from a wider discipline get to critique your work or the critique of your work. If your idea can withstand critique and you are lucky it gets accepted as an established theory.

Except that luck does not play a part. What knowledge base do you need to perform this and where to you get funding? Are YouTube videos any help in this research?

Yet you don't think others here can do the same.

Al can learn. But not to several years at university graduate level from YouTube. Which is what those here think they are capable of.
 

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
17,063
Ja that was a joke.

I decided a few months ago to do some research of my own to try and find out what was going on on myBB with a few of the members who take extreme delight in creating conflict where none actually exists.

I thought when I started that there only a few of these members but have found many of them.

This one was rather easy to expose by simply playing his game for a while and luring him into exposing his true nature and the technique he uses. His own sense of superiority was enough to expose him quite easily, he could not resist in the end.

As soon as he mentioned the "Socrates Method", it was over.

The above method is supposed to be a method designed to encourage critical thinking and explore a subject in depth between a group interested in a particular subject.

But in the hands of a cyberbully (on and open forum such as this) it becomes a method to humiliate and intimidate the victim until he gives up. The very fact the the victim gives up is then gratifying to the bully because he believes he has exposed his victim in some way of another.

Cosmik Debris is one of these, through and through.

The moderators need to start doing something about these guys because all they actually do is shut down topic after topic for their perverse enjoyment.

It does not matter what the debate is about, either or how trivial the issue is.

look at the latest example. SWA said something about a vaccination expiry date and CDs response is to now asked a question about the expiry dates of other unnamed vacs. he is not interested in those dates. You don't know what vacs he is referring to. He trying to lure you into listing a whole string of vaccinations and dates that he can then use to ask further questions until you choose to give up and then he will claim some or other victory as a result.

In my case, I might as well responded with a statement about how to use a triangular bandage to make a sling. He would use that to asked another inane question, not to explore what a paramedic does but to try and get to a point where he could humiliate me in public.

When challenged he will try and make out as if he is "only teaching his victim something".

One of the ways to expose these guys is to try and lure them into debating something inconsequential until they make a mistake and then exposing them. The danger of course is that in the process, you might find yourself doing the same as they do so it is a fine line between becoming as evil as they are.

The moderators should take note of this and if they are serious about getting to grips with cyberbullying on myBB then here is someone they could make an example of.

There is in fact a very good thesis written by a South African dealing with this very topic if anyone wants to read about it. Send me a PM and I will send you the link, although it is quite easy to find.

Your only defence is a critique of the Socratic method, appeal to the mods because you cannot sustain the argument and an accusation? What medical qualifications do you have to argue the subject?
 

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
17,063
Thank you @Geoff.D.

I think that @Cosmik Debris does have some valuable information to share on some very specific topics, but agree that he isn't an expert on everything, such an individual does not exist.

@Cosmik Debris, please carry on sharing, you clearly have some good experience and knowledge, but at the same time, please don't be a bully. Let's all benefit from these diverse viewpoints, and respect all members. I don't always agree with everything that @Geoff.D says, but in some areas he certainly makes some good points, just like you in other areas. On this particular topic I am aligned with @Geoff.D , and whilst I am open to challenges, let's do it in a civil manner.

Thank you Ron. Unfortunately Geoff is not speaking from a knowledge base and many others are in the realm of the big pharma conspiracy theory. I have stated that I am not a Covid expert, but my medical expertise is far higher than most commenting here. Unfortunately they refuse to listen to any other voices as they have done the "research" and read medical research papers. How they are capable of doing that I have no idea.

There is a poll on MyBB where persons are asked where they get their Covid info from. Over 50% of respondents claim to have read medical research papers. This should rather be a medical site then as over half the respondents are capable of reading and have access to medical research papers. Yet only a few who are into the big pharma conspiracy comment on Covid.

Wonder why that is?
 

Cosmik Debris

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
17,063
@Cosmik Debris

I have just read an article on the India Bar association which is now taking the WHO to court.

The IBA’s 51-page notice, sent on 25 May, calls Swaminathan’s statements “highly unconscionable, misleading and issued with ulterior purposes and deliberate intention to underplay the effectiveness of Ivermectin in treating the Covid-19 patients as well as its use as a prophylaxis and to dissuade people from using this drug by creating doubts in the minds of people around safety of Ivermectin”.


Sounds much like #Afriforum which took SAHPRA to court to allow doctors to prescribe Ivermectin off label from compounding pharmacies and won the case and Sahpra had to pay the 1.8M court costs. Why would Afriforum want to take Sahpra to court in the first place?


It's not my duty to convince anyone about the benefits of Ivermectin. Each person has the right to their own option as it is their own life.

In my option, big pharma such as Merck and all the others are playing a dirty game to discredit Ivermectin as their is no profit to be made off an off-patent drug, but at the cost of human lives.
Over 4,Million people worldwide have died from covid. Dr Andrew Hill, advisor to WHO even in his last dismal paper that was done had shown a low 56% decrease in mortality. That is still over 2 Million people who's life would most likely have been spared if they did get the proper antiviral treatment. Other randomized trials show up to 80% efficacy when used as prophylaxis. But that you would have read if you bothered to lookup the layman's summary of the trials on https://ivmmeta.com

IVM safety record shows 20 deaths since 1992 after more than 3 Billion doses had been destributed. Merck distributed 55Mil doses themselves to successfully treat and irradiate RiverBlindness. I have a 1hr video interview with Roy Vagelos who was the CEO and founder or Merck who talks about their trials with Metctizan (Ivermectin) and how safe the drug is. FDA has reported that already 5208 deaths have occurred due to taking the vaccine and that is just in 1 year. IVM is even safer than panado at avg 458 deaths per year in the US alone and more than 100,000 hospitalizations. (Wiki paracetamol poisoning)

Funny how Merck the original manufacturer has now made the turnaround to say that they cannot recommend ivermectin as the safety has not been proven with Covid. Probably because they have been to busy with their new patented drug molnupiravir which the US goverment has PREpaid 1.2B$ US for 1.7 million courses of this antiviral drug which is only now starting trials.


Merck was coincidently also one of major sponsers for the last trial in which there was no apparent benefit seen and noted that there was increase ventilator use when using ivermectin. Wonder why this was not noted in any of the other 61 trials.

You know the saying Money or your Life. This should now be rewritten as "Money for your Life" thanks to big pharma.

So what antiviral medicines do our current state hospitals provide for outpatient to treat mild Covid Virus? Any? Sounds like big pharma pays your salary.

Anything coming out of India is suspect. Give it a few months and get back to me about the results.
 
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