Ivermectin: balance of evidence shows no benefit against Covid-19

Geoff.D

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Spot on, has problems when things get personal, but is very happy to tell others to, and I quote, "suck it" and throw various other insults as well.
You insult me, you get an insult back. Keep the debate on the ball and there is no problem.
 

pouroverguy

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Feb 7, 2013
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Because there are evaluators and some trials that do say IVM, in conjunction with other medication can and does treat patients with Covid successfully. It is simple. There are many doctors in the world still very successfully using IVM to treat their patients, including in SA.

Many of you continue to push the idea that patients have the right to get a second opinion. This is a second opinion, equally valid. Or, is it now ONLY you guys that have the authority to rule on what is acceptable for the treating of Covid 19?

The MAJORITY of experts do not believe IVM works. The Majority should be trusted. Not some fringe doctors on the sidelines.

There is NO evidence that any doctor is treating patients successfully with IVM, since the data shows so far that there is no evidence to prove it works.
 

pouroverguy

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Because there are evaluators and some trials that do say IVM, in conjunction with other medication can and does treat patients with Covid successfully. It is simple. There are many doctors in the world still very successfully using IVM to treat their patients, including in SA.

Many of you continue to push the idea that patients have the right to get a second opinion. This is a second opinion, equally valid. Or, is it now ONLY you guys that have the authority to rule on what is acceptable for the treating of Covid 19?

So first IVM works period, now it only works if used in conjunction with other drugs. Alright then. Newsflash: if you give someone a proven medication like steroids, and then add on something else, the results are probably down to the proven meds. You can't assume IVM works automatically, when confounders are present.
 
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Geoff.D

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The MAJORITY of experts do not believe IVM works. The Majority should be trusted. Not some fringe doctors on the sidelines.

There is NO evidence that any doctor is treating patients successfully with IVM, since the data shows so far that there is no evidence to prove it works.
Look where the majority have led SA into! No, that is not a valid criterion at all. We have seen many examples in this thread and in others that the majority opinion of experts is NOT always the correct answer. There is a fine line between the credible majority opinion and blind faith based on procedure to justify considering alternatives. But you are entitled to your opinion. If you respect my right to not agree with you then I will respect your right to retain your belief in the majority views on IVM.

There is, but it has been driven into obscurity. We just don't see them publishing their results. Most of it is being passed around by word of mouth now. IF this debate had stayed in the open, we might see more of it being published and documented. Right now, those doctors are just staying out of the limelight.

Even so, there is plenty of published evidence that it "works". It requires an open mind to read the published stuff objectively. And then you can decide for yourself.
 

semaphore

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Nov 13, 2007
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Look where the majority have led SA into! No, that is not a valid criterion at all. We have seen many examples in this thread and in others that the majority opinion of experts is NOT always the correct answer. There is a fine line between the credible majority opinion and blind faith based on procedure to justify considering alternatives. But you are entitled to your opinion. If you respect my right to not agree with you then I will respect your right to retain your belief in the majority views on IVM.
So the issue here is you have a problem with people of authority and experts in the field so it already clouds your objectivity. You constantly dismiss experts who go against IVM because it does not fit with your agenda.

Like I said from the start, you're biased.

There is, but it has been driven into obscurity. We just don't see them publishing their results. Most of it is being passed around by word of mouth now. IF this debate had stayed in the open, we might see more of it being published and documented. Right now, those doctors are just staying out of the limelight.
No Geoff, there is no conspiracy theory going on about the results of IVM being hidden, that's just your paranoia playing out. You just constantly dismiss all the research shared that this drug shows no efficacy.

Even so, there is plenty of published evidence that it "works". It requires an open mind to read the published stuff objectively. And then you can decide for yourself.
No there isn't. Reading research requires the mind of someone who understands the subject matter, someone who is able to articulate the complexity of the science - you do not possess such skills, it's about time that you start being honest and just admit the fact that this field is not your area of expertise and stop prancing around as if you are one.
 

Grant

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Mar 27, 2007
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Because there are evaluators and some trials that do say IVM, in conjunction with other medication can and does treat patients with Covid successfully. It is simple. There are many doctors in the world still very successfully using IVM to treat their patients, including in SA.

Many of you continue to push the idea that patients have the right to get a second opinion. This is a second opinion, equally valid. Or, is it now ONLY you guys that have the authority to rule on what is acceptable for the treating of Covid 19?
Get a second opinion by all means, but not from a man who lives in a mud hut and dances around a fire chucking chicken bones on the floor.

Equally useless is the opinion of a tie dye clad, blue haired hippie-chick with unshaven underarms and a miniature dream-catcher dangling from her pierced snout.

Add in purveyors of snake oil and Ivy
 

PsyWulf

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He'll get his second opinion from the other members of his Ivermecturd telegram group
 

PsyWulf

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Nov 22, 2006
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This was sent to me,and I think I'm starting to fully comprehend the depth of ego and anxiety @Geoff.D is struggling with daily in his denialist mentality.

He's just very very very afraid - of covid,of treating it,of admitting he's been wrong for a long time,and of not being special or part of a special club anymore,but being average and underwhelming and not standing out from the crowd. Ivermectin has been a way for him to feel cool and special,and he's unlikely to give it up even if it kills him as he'd have to admit his failings and weakness


You have my sympathy
 

Wary GOM

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Aug 23, 2019
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He'll get his second opinion from the other members of his Ivermecturd telegram group
Yes, indeed he will. Unfortunately so will many of the non-invermecturd crowd get second and nth opinions from their side of the fence. Both are equally valueless. I have no problem with people dosing themselves with deworming medicines for goats or chlorox bleach or whatever they think/hope/believe will help them.

They must just not try to support their "opinions" by quoting the "opinions" of other believers. Opinions have no value. Keep them to yourself unless there is HARD, supporting evidence; properly collected and objectively tested.

Having not dipped into this thread for a while, I thought that it would have produced some new opinions, but we are still seeing the same ones that appeared in some of the first posts. COVID is certainly evolving faster than human thinking.
 

JohnMao

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May 21, 2018
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So first IVM works period, now it only works if used in conjunction with other drugs. Alright then. Newsflash: if you give someone a proven medication like steroids, and then add on something else, the results are probably down to the proven meds. You can't assume IVM works automatically, when confounders are present.
No, if you read the statement, it's this:

1. IVM works, and you should only use it.
2. IVM, in conjunction with other medication works. (because people caught on VERY quickly to what I was trying to push was non-medical and nonsense).
3. IVM works, and you should only use it (let's see if this can get slipped in again and people will agree)
 

buka001

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Oct 16, 2009
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This was sent to me,and I think I'm starting to fully comprehend the depth of ego and anxiety @Geoff.D is struggling with daily in his denialist mentality.

He's just very very very afraid - of covid,of treating it,of admitting he's been wrong for a long time,and of not being special or part of a special club anymore,but being average and underwhelming and not standing out from the crowd. Ivermectin has been a way for him to feel cool and special,and he's unlikely to give it up even if it kills him as he'd have to admit his failings and weakness


You have my sympathy
Cognitive dissonance, such a fascinating phenomenon.

But yeah that summation is spot on. Really captures this whole IVM saga succinctly.

The sense that they could see what others could not. The sense that they, mere amateurs had outsmarted experts across the globe. The sense that they belonged to this super club.

Its also what drives many a conspiracy theory.
 

rietrot

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Aug 26, 2016
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26,774
Never known this thread to be so quiet.
Did the shrink hit a home run?
Huh? There's only so much circulars arguments that a person can do.

We now know Ivermectin is perfectly safe. What more needs to be said.
 
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