Ivermectin: balance of evidence shows no benefit against Covid-19

Rosaudio

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Wait, so are you telling me that we already have a guideline as to how much ivermectin the human body can safely tolerate?
Ivermectin is used to treat onchocerciasis, surely you would know this already, or are you just trolling?

I'm starting to think you aren't actually a medical expert... :unsure:
 

Cosmik Debris

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You are talking about a completely new type of treatment that modifies human genetic code.

Everything you eat and breathe in alters human genetic code. I suppose you don't mind walking in the street breathing in genetic code altering diesel fumes?

Unlike RNA, DNA is extremely resistant to alterations of genetic code. Otherwise we would mutate within a century or two instead of requiring millennia.
 

SoldierMan

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Ah another one who's favourite podcaster at the moment is Bret Weinstein. I'm so sorry I cast a little bit of caution around the use of IVM, perhaps you can share your expertise on self-medicating with unapproved drugs at dosages up to 100 fold those used previously?

Where do you get such nonsense from? Where did you get this dosage from?

Stop spreading lies. I suggest you do a little research on Ivermectin before talking complete rubbish.

Prophylaxis dosage is 0.2 mg/kg
Treatment dosage starts at 0.2-0.4 mg/kg

I suppose Dr Pierre Kory and Dr Robert Malone is also on your list of no-nos. The fact that Dr Kory is on the front line actually treating and HEALING patients, and that Dr Malone was the co-creator of mRNA vaccine technology makes no difference to you.

Instead you use preposterous dosages to further the lies about Ivermectin. Either you are just ignorant or are a liar.

Here is the entire protocol https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-...LCCC-Alliance-I-MASKplus-Protocol-ENGLISH.pdf
 

Cosmik Debris

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There is a reason that it takes years for treatments to go from their first tests on humans to being marketed for mass consumption, and that reason is to look for long-term effects that don't immediately become apparent.

How long did Edward Jenner experiment with the smallpox vaccine?
 

JangoFett

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Ivermectin is used to treat onchocerciasis, surely you would know this already, or are you just trolling?

I'm starting to think you aren't actually a medical expert... :unsure:
You didn't answer my question. The fact of what Ivermectin does or doesn't treat is irrelevant to the fact that we already have an idea as to what a safe dosage of the substance is. The point you were trying to raise therefore corroborates my initial claim, we know that ivermectin is safe for human consumption.
 

Tandor

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Hi @Geoff.D

I agree. As a member of SAHARI I believe that people medicine does exist and it does not need to cost a arm and leg. It should be distributed free for the poorer population (treatment pack) with every clinic visit for influenza and available over the counter in pharmacies at a reasonable cost.Same model as done in other countries.

The cost savings in hospitalizations alone will be far more than the cost of supplying Ivermectin.
Goverment is heavily invested in the Vaccines for eg through sponsorships with Bill an Melinda gates foundation in Sahpra and ANC'c 30% shareholding in the vaccine cooling facilities in Midrand. It's not in their financial interest.

It up to us in the community to support each other. Hats off to Afriforum, SAHARI, all the doctors and pharmacies that have made this drug available to us the people. The third wave is not a joke, please be safe.
 

Cosmik Debris

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Yes, because I have no idea which post you think will be the response to my post. If you think it's worth repeating, ok; otherwise, bye.

No chance of me reading the entire thread again for you to show you what you should have read. Do you walk into an exam classroom to write answers on something you have not studied? Do your own dirty work.
 

SoldierMan

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JangoFett

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Hi @Geoff.D

I agree. As a member of SAHARI I believe that people medicine does exist and it does not need to cost a arm and leg. It should be distributed free for the poorer population (treatment pack) with every clinic visit for influenza and available over the counter in pharmacies at a reasonable cost.Same model as done in other countries.

The cost savings in hospitalizations alone will be far more than the cost of supplying Ivermectin.
Goverment is heavily invested in the Vaccines for eg through sponsorships with Bill an Melinda gates foundation in Sahpra and ANC'c 30% shareholding in the vaccine cooling facilities in Midrand. It's not in their financial interest.

It up to us in the community to support each other. Hats off to Afriforum, SAHARI, all the doctors and pharmacies that have made this drug available to us the people. The third wave is not a joke, please be safe.
Is that a financial incentive to force the population to take a risky treatment against their will I see? Gee, who would have thought? :cautious:
 

Cosmik Debris

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I agree. As a member of SAHARI I believe that people medicine does exist and it does not need to cost a arm and leg. It should be distributed free for the poorer population (treatment pack) with every clinic visit for influenza and available over the counter in pharmacies at a reasonable cost.Same model as done in other countries.

So long as you pay for it to be distributed, not me.

The cost savings in hospitalizations alone will be far more than the cost of supplying Ivermectin.

Long term? And you know this? How?

ANC'c 30% shareholding in the vaccine cooling facilities in Midrand. It's not in their financial interest.

Some references and substantiation for this please?
 

Markd

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is there any government in the world that has approved Ivermectin specifically for treating COVID? There seem to be lots of anecdotal articles about certain countries employing it, but is there a corresponding article or statement from the given countries Health Department or medicines regulator approving and recommending Ivermectin based on some evidence base? I would really be very interested to read this.

The other question I have is, why would the South African Department of Health NOT recommend Ivermectin for COVID for any reason other than there being a lack of evidence for its effectiveness? I can completely understand them not recommending it on the basis of there being insufficient evidence, because the flip-side of that coin is that if they DO recommend it, and people start getting liver/other issues from its use, then they would need to be held accountable for that, hence why they would er on the side of caution until there is sufficient evidence for them to be confident in a recommendation.

Some people tend to be implying that these governments and private doctors all over the world are part of some conspiracy to stop Ivermectin from being used, but the question is what do they as individuals and organizations have to gain from doing that?

Finally, if Ivermectin is such a wonder-drug in our fight against COVID, why hasn't Merck, the Big Pharma company with the rights to the drug, punted it much harder or themselves recommended it? They have in fact recommended not using it for COVID. Is there likewise a conspiracy theory behind this, like them getting kickbacks or being part of a broader cartel?

Im inclined to side with the professional majority in this area as much as I would love for it to be a valid treatment option. Hopeful that the Oxford trials that are being done will provide a conclusive view for us in the not-too-distant future, but worried that any evidence to the contrary is going to fall on deaf ears.
 

JangoFett

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Finally, if Ivermectin is such a wonder-drug in our fight against COVID, why hasn't Merck, the Big Pharma company with the rights to the drug, punted it much harder or themselves recommended it? They have in fact recommended not using it for COVID. Is there likewise a conspiracy theory behind this, like them getting kickbacks or being part of a broader cartel?
It's so old that they don't have patent rights. They are more incentivised to participate in the new vaccine regimen because those can be patented for profit.
 

SlinkyMike

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For many it's not anti-vax, it's anti THIS vax. It truly is amazing just how much faith people like you put in an experimental gene tool. The spike protein is proving to be cytotoxic, yes even the one in the vaccine. There is evidence that it opens up holes in the blood-brain barrier and goes into all areas of the body like heart, ovaries, lungs, etc.

People like Dr Pierre Kory (who is in the thick of things when it comes to Covid), Bret Weinstein and Dr Malone (the co-creator of mRNA vaccine technology) who are otherwise pro-vax have huge concerns about this experimental gene tool.

It is people like you who are holding back progress as you limit the medication that can be used against Covid, like Ivermectin, which more and more is showing that it is very effective against Covid, even long Covid has been treated and healed within 48 hours. Many are saying that of the 500,000 people who have died in the USA from Covid, 86% could have been saved if they had been given Ivermectin.

Did you know that Dr Pierre Kory's testimony to the senate has been deleted from Youtube. This is a Dr at the forefront of dealing with Covid. In this testimony he said that corticosteroids should be used to fight Covid, he was lambasted for saying that, now they are using corticosteroids to fight Covid. It's people like you and those who shut down debate on Ivermectin and other drugs that are killing people unnecessarily. Ivermectin is no longer under patent, yet Fauci is being given $3 billion to find potential new drugs to fight Covid. Why are they not looking at Ivermectin, one, because it is not profitable, and two, because they would not have been given emergency use for their vaccines.
As usual with lunatics, pull one thread and the whole thing unravels, here we go... you ready?

There is less data on Ivermectin as a cure all for SARS-CoV-2 than what there is on mRNA vaccines for building resistance to infection.

We done?
 

Cosmik Debris

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The FLCCC Alliance? You quote a fringe group run by three maverick doctors as science?

What's Behind the Ivermectin-for-COVID Buzz?​

— Maverick physicians spurn randomized trials while "people are dying"​

by Kristina Fiore, Director of Enterprise & Investigative Reporting, MedPage Today January 6, 2021

Here's the reason you've been hearing more about ivermectin lately: the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC).

The group -- led by three physicians with a knack for making headlines -- posted its own review and meta-analysis of the global ivermectin literature on its website.

In early December, these doctors held a press conference, and one testified at a Senate hearing on early treatments for COVID-19.

They maintain that ivermectin has a special combination of anti-viral and anti-inflammatory properties that make it useful preventively and for treating early and late-stage illness.

Too good to be true? Not in the mind of FLCCC co-leader Paul Marik, MD, chief of pulmonary and critical care medicine at Eastern Virginia Medical School in Norfolk, who co-authored the review and meta-analysis based mainly on studies from outside the U.S.


The Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance logo over a box of Ivermectin tablets

Here's the reason you've been hearing more about ivermectin lately: the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC).

The group -- led by three physicians with a knack for making headlines -- posted its own review and meta-analysis of the global ivermectin literature on its website.

In early December, these doctors held a press conference, and one testified at a Senate hearing on early treatments for COVID-19.

They maintain that ivermectin has a special combination of anti-viral and anti-inflammatory properties that make it useful preventively and for treating early and late-stage illness.

Too good to be true? Not in the mind of FLCCC co-leader Paul Marik, MD, chief of pulmonary and critical care medicine at Eastern Virginia Medical School in Norfolk, who co-authored the review and meta-analysis based mainly on studies from outside the U.S.
..........

What the Science Says

FLCCC members see their data as strong, but many experts disagree with their interpretation.

Regarding ivermectin for prophylaxis, they cite four randomized controlled trials and three observational studies. Two of the RCTs were done in Egypt, one in Argentina, and one in Bangladesh, ranging in size from 100 to 300 patients. Marik and colleagues also cite "natural experiments" in Peru, Brazil, and Paraguay where ivermectin was distributed widely, with "large decreases in case counts ... soon after distribution began."

For ivermectin in mild illness, they cite five RCTs: two in Bangladesh, and one each in Iraq, Brazil, and Spain, varying in size from 24 patients (Spain) to 722 patients (Brazil). For ivermectin in hospitalized patients, they cite four RCTs in Egypt, Iran, India, and Bangladesh, ranging from 72 to 400 patients. They also cite a host of observational studies and case series in both mild and severe illness.

So, a trial on 400 patients.


Kristina Fiore leads MedPage’s enterprise & investigative reporting team. She’s been a medical journalist for more than a decade and her work has been recognized by Barlett & Steele, AHCJ, SABEW, and others. Send story tips to k.fiore@medpagetoday.com. Follow
 
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