Ivermectin: balance of evidence shows no benefit against Covid-19

JohnStarr

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SoldierMan

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Sorry, to troll the guys who say that the topic of this forum chat is patently incorrect:



Seems the forum topic is correctly labelled.

From your very article:

Yet even this trial is too small to definitively settle questions about ivermectin’s safety and efficacy.

Well done JohnStarr :D
 

Geoff.D

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The challenge faced by the research chemists in analysing the chemistry driving IVMs effectiveness against the SARS-COV-2 virus:

1626965718425.png

The dotted line at the top of the graph depicts the concentration required to "kill" the virus "in vitro" (5 µM)

The lower graph is the plotted values achieved by the dosages used in some of the "trials". The dosages are generally too low to have an effect. The dosages are all contained by what is currently considered "safe" for human use.

Hence, this technical analysis shows why the so-called "officially recognised trials" ended up delivering "inconclusive" outcomes.
The "trials" were thus set up to fail.
 

JohnStarr

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The challenge faced by the research chemists in analysing the chemistry driving IVMs effectiveness against the SARS-COV-2 virus:

View attachment 1112498

The dotted line at the top of the graph depicts the concentration required to "kill" the virus "in vitro" (5 µM)

The lower graph is the plotted values achieved by the dosages used in some of the "trials". The dosages are generally too low to have an effect. The dosages are all contained by what is currently considered "safe" for human use.

Hence, this technical analysis shows why the so-called "officially recognised trials" ended up delivering "inconclusive" outcomes.
The "trials" were thus set up to fail.
Care to back up yet more of your inflammatory claims by taking on those experts? Or are you simply going to "keyboard warrior" the hell out of the forums and pretend you know what you're talking about?
 

buka001

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The challenge faced by the research chemists in analysing the chemistry driving IVMs effectiveness against the SARS-COV-2 virus:

View attachment 1112498

The dotted line at the top of the graph depicts the concentration required to "kill" the virus "in vitro" (5 µM)

The lower graph is the plotted values achieved by the dosages used in some of the "trials". The dosages are generally too low to have an effect. The dosages are all contained by what is currently considered "safe" for human use.

Hence, this technical analysis shows why the so-called "officially recognised trials" ended up delivering "inconclusive" outcomes.
The "trials" were thus set up to fail.
Have you called Mediclinic yet and dropped this life saving, Nobel Prize winning advice yet?
 

Conack

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The South African Health Products Regulatory Authority (Sahpra) said on Wednesday it was investigating adverse findings reported from administering the Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer vaccines in SA.
 

Daveogg

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The challenge faced by the research chemists in analysing the chemistry driving IVMs effectiveness against the SARS-COV-2 virus:

View attachment 1112498

The dotted line at the top of the graph depicts the concentration required to "kill" the virus "in vitro" (5 µM)

The lower graph is the plotted values achieved by the dosages used in some of the "trials". The dosages are generally too low to have an effect. The dosages are all contained by what is currently considered "safe" for human use.

Hence, this technical analysis shows why the so-called "officially recognised trials" ended up delivering "inconclusive" outcomes.
The "trials" were thus set up to fail.
Thanks interesting. My thoughts are doses to achieve those plasma levels will not be possible at an acceptable side effect profile.
If IVM works my guess is not direct viral inhibition but rather at the ACE2.
My worry is IVM will remain the "making a murderer" of medicine. We never gonna have the answer.
 

Geoff.D

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Thanks interesting. My thoughts are doses to achieve those plasma levels will not be possible at an acceptable side effect profile.
If IVM works my guess is not direct viral inhibition but rather at the ACE2.
My worry is IVM will remain the "making a murderer" of medicine. We never gonna have the answer.
There is further research that was already done and published middle of last year to suggest that the IC50 value for IVM would be about 2 µM. Now the question is would that level be sufficient to keep SARS under control while the body deals with it or not? Even if IVM never succeeds in killing it completely?

The research also suggested that at an IC50 for ~ 2µM, IVM would not show any adverse reactions in humans.

That research paper listed a string of anti-viral research papers dating all the way back to 2001 against all sorts of viruses.

Still busy reading it, It has some really complicated chemistry and I have had to reach for my chemistry textbooks a few times to check my understanding of it at all.
 

Cosmik Debris

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The South African Health Products Regulatory Authority (Sahpra) said on Wednesday it was investigating adverse findings reported from administering the Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer vaccines in SA.

1490 adverse effect reports. Nowhere does it say what an adverse effect is. I had a sore arm, headache and sore throat afterwards. My wife had the full Covid symptoms but mild. We didn't report our adverse effects.
 

SoldierMan

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Thanks interesting. My thoughts are doses to achieve those plasma levels will not be possible at an acceptable side effect profile.
If IVM works my guess is not direct viral inhibition but rather at the ACE2.
My worry is IVM will remain the "making a murderer" of medicine. We never gonna have the answer.

Studies are saying IVM binds to the spike protein and so stops it from binding to the cell.
 

JohnStarr

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The South African Health Products Regulatory Authority (Sahpra) said on Wednesday it was investigating adverse findings reported from administering the Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer vaccines in SA.
I guess it happens, but why is another story. Everyone I have spoken to who had the Pfizer vaccine had a sore arm for instance, as did I. Is that an adverse side effect?
Like having a sore arm after having another type of vaccine? They mention nothing in that article which kind of sucks.
 

JohnStarr

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1490 adverse effect reports. Nowhere does it say what an adverse effect is. I had a sore arm, headache and sore throat afterwards. My wife had the full Covid symptoms but mild. We didn't report our adverse effects.
Well that's the thing. You are made aware you are likely to have a sore arm for a day. But did people end up reporting that, meaning it needs to be investigated?
Poorly written article.
 

Geoff.D

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The South African Health Products Regulatory Authority (Sahpra) said on Wednesday it was investigating adverse findings reported from administering the Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer vaccines in SA.
Report awaited Friday (tomorrow).
Briefing parliament's portfolio committee on health, Semete-Makokotlela said a report would be released on Friday detailing the analysis being conducted on the adverse findings reported on the two vaccines now being administered in SA.

Casualties under investigation:

She told the committee that the regulator is investigating causes of deaths in such cases.

“These fatalities do not, at this point, outnumber what you would see generally in the public. But be that as it may, we are doing causality assessments.”
Edit.
What is disgusting is that this report is an accurate reflection of what the SAHPRA rep said to the Parliamentary committee.
 
Last edited:

Swa

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There are a number of articles doing the rounds stating that it doesn't do anything (I've spoken to some who say it could but needs further studies). Does that bother you that not everybody is falling over themselves to prove it does what they want it too?
There are articles stating that it can't be determined. There can be multiple reasons for that. Then there are a number of articles of dubious quality. What's the issue here is that the trial doesn't state anything about the balance of evidence. It can't because it's not a meta study.

If I got the Pfizer shot (which I did) and stepped off a curb before being run over by a car, is that caused by the vaccine? Nobody knows when your number is up and maybe it's simply a case of coincidence.

Far more people will die without being vaccinated.

However, on what you said above...isn't this anecdotal as well? I mean when I told you I had family members who went on IVM as prescribed by a doctor with 1 ending up on a ventilator (IVM did nothing for them), you told me it was anecdotal and dismissed what I had to say. And dismissed it regularily.

Sheet but that's ironic and hypocritical!
Well now isn't this the epitome of irony. Teen dies in a car crash. Must write it up as Covid death because it could have been Covid that took the steering wheel. Do you not see that there are double standards at play here?

"Isn't this anecdotal as well?" Well no shite Sherlock and that's the whole point that's gone whoosh. Plenty of people have tried to present their anecdotes and hearsay for how dangerous it is not to be vaccinated and how IVM doesn't work. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Oh, pray tell: which vaccines do you support?
Stop with the misdirection.

Resort? Oh sweet child. It's what I have said from the start. This is all linked to Trump/Russia propaganda.

Just show me one person who argues for IVM/HCQ and against mRNA who is not also schlepped up into a bunch of other 'truth is being oppressed'/deep state/free speech/Big Pharma conspiracies. Just show me one and I'll shut up.

It's about creating "alternate truth" to replace the news so that people are manipulable.

This is not about science, you people are in a cult. A stupid one.
You prove my point. You can't look past Trump and Russia like that other guy. You've been shown multiple times it's not a matter of pro-IVM anti-mRNA but about safe vaccines and cutting corners. Go get your Chinavax and shut up.

You are the primary cult here. You and your buds show all the classic characteristics of one.

get a new doctor.
Get a brain.
 

JohnStarr

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There are articles stating that it can't be determined. There can be multiple reasons for that. Then there are a number of articles of dubious quality. What's the issue here is that the trial doesn't state anything about the balance of evidence. It can't because it's not a meta study.


Well now isn't this the epitome of irony. Teen dies in a car crash. Must write it up as Covid death because it could have been Covid that took the steering wheel. Do you not see that there are double standards at play here?

"Isn't this anecdotal as well?" Well no shite Sherlock and that's the whole point that's gone whoosh. Plenty of people have tried to present their anecdotes and hearsay for how dangerous it is not to be vaccinated and how IVM doesn't work. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.


Stop with the misdirection.


You prove my point. You can't look past Trump and Russia like that other guy. You've been shown multiple times it's not a matter of pro-IVM anti-mRNA but about safe vaccines and cutting corners. Go get your Chinavax and shut up.

You are the primary cult here. You and your buds show all the classic characteristics of one.


Get a brain.
That's how you dig yourself our of a hole...try to be the more intelligent person. Hope it worked for you.
 
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