Ivermectin: balance of evidence shows no benefit against Covid-19

Swa

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Such a DRAMATIC drop and what do the haters say..... nope nothing to see here, it's a complete COINCIDENCE.

Oh really and is it a complete COINCIDENCE that those states that chose NOT to use IVM saw an increase in Covid cases???

The FACT that the states saw a MASSIVE decrease in cases who used IVM, and the FACT that the states saw a MASSIVE INCREASE in cases who chose not to use it.

That takes a boat load of cognitive dissonance and reverse logic to come to that conclusion. It's like facts and real world scenarios don't matter to the haters. They will believe up is down and down is up if it suits them. And in this case they do believe that.
Oh but numbers don't matter and we can't draw any direct conclusions. The irony is that if what they say is correct then there's no evidence for the vaccines being effective. But they keep pointing to countries with poor vaccination against 1st world countries. Actually there's a much better chance there are other factors involved with the vaccines that they're not as effective as claimed.
 

Geoff.D

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A few facts:

1. Liver:
Ivermectin is usually well tolerated and the liver injury reported with its use has been mild and self-limited in course. Ivermectin has not been associated with acute liver failure or chronic liver injury.
2. Treatment of PPR:
The results of these 40-week extension studies support the use of IVM 1% cream as a long-term therapy for PPR as IVM 1% cream was shown to be safe and effective for up to 52 weeks of total treatment.
Since one of the most effective ways to administer IVM is by application and absorption through the skin, this is an example of Chronic use.

3. IVM leaves the body after 18 hours. Most of it is gone after 36 hours.
How long does ivermectin (Stromectol) stay in your system? Ivermectin (Stromectol) starts to leave your bloodstream after about 18 hours, but it stays in your intestines and continues to kill any worms there for 12 days.
 
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Swa

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The vaccines were tested properly on healthy humans. I'm literally part of the Oxford trial. My wife too. Participants are being monitored still, almost a year later.
You don't see how you undermine your own claim? If the vaccine testing was complete, why would you still be monitored?

Sheesh...
The vaccine fanatics completely overlook this fact. No trial, except perhaps the initial efficacy candidate trials have been completed. The safety trials are still being conducted, the largest one on the general public.

I suggest you read what he said before you make yourself look bad.
We did. He makes a statement. There's no data to support it.
 

buka001

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No there's only a few inconclusive studies. There's no proper studies to show that it doesn't work, and therein lies the rub. The inconclusiveness is in its effectiveness and not that it is effective but your bias prevents you from understanding this. The people crying there isn't good enough evidence are crying because there are no proper RCTs but if you watch the video you'll know why there should not be any more RCTs.
The only reason you don't want RCT's is to hide the failures of IVM to treat COVID.

Strange how when it comes to vaccines they managed to get RCT trials of thousands of people.
 

buka001

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The vaccine fanatics completely overlook this fact. No trial, except perhaps the initial efficacy candidate trials have been completed. The safety trials are still being conducted, the largest one on the general public.


We did. He makes a statement. There's no data to support it.
He said this -

It could happen for instance that ivermectin induces a physiological reaction that worsens Covid outcomes. I'm not saying it does, but it could.

It could ... (definition of could - used to indicate possibility.)

... i'm not saying it does ... (do you want me to define what "not saying it does in grade 1 English?)

Has your bias broken your ability to comprehend basic english?
 

Swa

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So you don't know the company?

Did you make this up?
No. It was quite a long conversation. There's a lot of quality control going into it. Even where something is found like for instance Aloe in the Cape vs one grown in Zim can effect what it does or how it interacts with someone's body.

Yes, acute use for parasitic infections. Not for chronic use. Nobody knows what the effects of chronic use will be.
Nobody here is talking about chronic use.
 

buka001

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No. It was quite a long conversation. There's a lot of quality control going into it. Even where something is found like for instance Aloe in the Cape vs one grown in Zim can effect what it does or how it interacts with someone's body.


Nobody here is talking about chronic use.
Ok so no evidence of this Big Pharma company that also sells homeopathy?
 

Swa

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Not in SA, they won't, because it is "not approved for human use in SA". They might very well find themselves taking it north of the Zambezi though! And they better do it, unless they want to find out how dangerous a couple of the parasites north of us are!
I haven't kept up with what is approved and what isn't. Apparently the court case was about the declaration of off label use being illegal? Not that it wasn't legal before that.

The reason we don't have IVM approved for parasitic use is because we don't have those parasites in SA. However if someone were to contract such a disease they can apply for exemption to have it imported.
 

Swa

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The only reason you don't want RCT's is to hide the failures of IVM to treat COVID.

Strange how when it comes to vaccines they managed to get RCT trials of thousands of people.
NO. The vaccine trials were well funded. Even so they were conducted on HEALTHY individuals. To withhold a potentially life saving treatment from someone at risk of dying is unethical and against the Nuremberg code. Conducting a trial to see how many people die in a treatment group vs a control group is gross misconduct. That's why you will not find an RCT with thousands of people. But in your little sick game you don't care about any of that.

We have enough trials and studies to conclude that IVM is effective and at what dosages to use it for treatment. We do not need any more. The data from patients treated with IVM from now on can be compared with the general data we have on Covid.

He said this -



It could ... (definition of could - used to indicate possibility.)

... i'm not saying it does ... (do you want me to define what "not saying it does in grade 1 English?)

Has your bias broken your ability to comprehend basic english?
I'm fully capable of comprehending what he said. They fact is if any such reaction existed it would have been more than apparent by now.

Ok so no evidence of this Big Pharma company that also sells homeopathy?
No.
 

buka001

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NO. The vaccine trials were well funded. Even so they were conducted on HEALTHY individuals. To withhold a potentially life saving treatment from someone at risk of dying is unethical and against the Nuremberg code. Conducting a trial to see how many people die in a treatment group vs a control group is gross misconduct. That's why you will not find an RCT with thousands of people. But in your little sick game you don't care about any of that.

We have enough trials and studies to conclude that IVM is effective and at what dosages to use it for treatment. We do not need any more. The data from patients treated with IVM from now on can be compared with the general data we have on Covid.


I'm fully capable of comprehending what he said. They fact is if any such reaction existed it would have been more than apparent by now.


No.

Perhaps you missed this study from the Cochrane Group.

We found no evidence to support the use of ivermectin for treating or preventing COVID-19 infection, but the evidence base is limited.

Can you contact them and inform them of their errors, since you stated -
We have enough trials and studies to conclude that IVM is effective

Let them know what your suitable qualifications, knowledge, training and experience is, that enables you to state this. Also advise them of the studies they have missed.
 

Geoff.D

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I haven't kept up with what is approved and what isn't. Apparently the court case was about the declaration of off label use being illegal? Not that it wasn't legal before that.

The reason we don't have IVM approved for parasitic use is because we don't have those parasites in SA. However if someone were to contract such a disease they can apply for exemption to have it imported.
IVM compounds were previously approved and listed in SA for the treatment of parasitic ailments. When all this started, I found some very old expired tablets in our cupboard in fact prescribed for our kids many years ago.
Presumably, locally, other medications replaced IVM products.
There is now an IVM based cream available and listed.
And the tablet form compounded locally is now listed as S4 ( available only on prescription by a doctor)
 

Splinter

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This! It swings the opinion against HCQ! And here are other drugs also involved.

I think it is overdue that we start a new thread detailing the entire fiasco that bedevilled the proper evaluation of HCQ. If for no other reason than to set the record straight, even if the concussion still is that HCQ has limited application in the treatment of Covid 19.

I do believe that some medication might have given you a concussion.
 

Cosmik Debris

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No there's only a few inconclusive studies. There's no proper studies to show that it doesn't work, and therein lies the rub. The inconclusiveness is in its effectiveness and not that it is effective but your bias prevents you from understanding this. The people crying there isn't good enough evidence are crying because there are no proper RCTs but if you watch the video you'll know why there should not be any more RCTs.

Are there studies that show it does work? And how well? And will it hurt the patient?
 

Cosmik Debris

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No. It was quite a long conversation. There's a lot of quality control going into it. Even where something is found like for instance Aloe in the Cape vs one grown in Zim can effect what it does or how it interacts with someone's body.


Nobody here is talking about chronic use.

Define what acute and chronic mean to you?
 

Swa

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IVM compounds were previously approved and listed in SA for the treatment of parasitic ailments. When all this started, I found some very old expired tablets in our cupboard in fact prescribed for our kids many years ago.
Presumably, locally, other medications replaced IVM products.
There is now an IVM based cream available and listed.
And the tablet form compounded locally is now listed as S4 ( available only on prescription by a doctor)
My dad was given something for Bilharzia many years ago, also weight based, but I have no idea what it was. I don't know if pharmaceutical approves ever expire but it's likely those would no longer be sold here in any case.
 

Cosmik Debris

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The reason we don't have IVM approved for parasitic use is because we don't have those parasites in SA. However if someone were to contract such a disease they can apply for exemption to have it imported.

Really? Ivermectin can be used to treat the following that do occur in humans in SA:

Head lice
Scabies
Strongloidiasis (Roundworm)
Trichuriasis (Whipworm)
Ascariasis (Parasitic Roundworm)
 

Swa

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Perhaps you missed this study from the Cochrane Group.



Can you contact them and inform them of their errors, since you stated -


Let them know what your suitable qualifications, knowledge, training and experience is, that enables you to state this. Also advise them of the studies they have missed.
I haven't gone through it but as was stated there doesn't necessarily need to be errors for it to be questionable.

Are there studies that show it does work? And how well? And will it hurt the patient?
Yes. Good. No.

Define what acute and chronic mean to you?
There are no clear definitions. But I doubt a short duration course for treating a disease will count as chronic under any definition.

Really? Ivermectin can be used to treat the following that do occur in humans in SA:

Head lice
Scabies
Strongloidiasis (Roundworm)
Trichuriasis (Whipworm)
Ascariasis (Parasitic Roundworm)
Topically. There does not seem to be any readily available oral medication containing IVM. We have other medications for treating common worms.
 

Cosmik Debris

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My dad was given something for Bilharzia many years ago, also weight based, but I have no idea what it was. I don't know if pharmaceutical approves ever expire but it's likely those would no longer be sold here in any case.

Pharmaceutical products are often recalled when unwanted long term side effects are found. The popular Ranitidine antacid known as Zantac and Ultak in SA was recalled due to cancer concerns.
 
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