Jesus Christ proof: Richard Dawkins in shock ‘archaeological evidence’ claim over Messiah

[Markd]

What research in the book are you referring to?

If memory serves it was around the ability of prayer to effect outcomes of people in hospital. I think in the book his feedback was it has no impact, but there are several contradictory studies on the efficacy of prayer on illness. He seemed to want to favour the ones that supported his views, or at least make it favour his views instead of remaining neutral or just staying away from that entirely.

 

[rambo919]

Do these studies include whether people know they are being prayed for?

 

[ToxicBunny]

If memory serves it was around the ability of prayer to effect outcomes of people in hospital. I think in the book his feedback was it has no impact, but there are several contradictory studies on the efficacy of prayer on illness. He seemed to want to favour the ones that supported his views, or at least make it favour his views instead of remaining neutral or just staying away from that entirely.

Would you mind linking to these studies that seem to indicate a positive outcome of prayer on illness?

 

[vic777]

If memory serves it was around the ability of prayer to effect outcomes of people in hospital. I think in the book his feedback was it has no impact, but there are several contradictory studies on the efficacy of prayer on illness. He seemed to want to favour the ones that supported his views, or at least make it favour his views instead of remaining neutral or just staying away from that entirely.

Honestly, I don't remember him stating it had no effect.
Whether prayer has a positive effect or not really would depend on if people know they are being prayed for or not - and if is used to prove the existence of the Christian god I'm sure other religions could come up with similar "evidence"

I'd be more impressed if god healed an amputee

 

[daveza]

I really think if you want to discuss the flood that you read the account first.

The flood was not 40 days and 40 nights - it rained for 40 days and forty nights.

Noah etc were aboard the ark for around a year.

And there were not a pair of every animal on board.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I really think if you want to discuss the flood that you read the account first.

The flood was not 40 days and 40 nights - it rained for 40 days and forty nights.

Noah etc were aboard the ark for around a year.

And there were not a pair of every animal on board.

So given certain conditions, the whole world should have been flooded for a good number of months then? Unless Noah was riding the tidal wave caused by the moon and never saw the land that was exposed...

 

[Markd]

Honestly, I don't remember him stating it had no effect.
Whether prayer has a positive effect or not really would depend on if people know they are being prayed for or not - and if is used to prove the existence of the Christian god I'm sure other religions could come up with similar "evidence"

I'd be more impressed if god healed an amputee

I listened to the book a long time ago so I also can't remember exactly what he said, only that he seemed to arrive at conclusions differently to how I do. As I recall he argues to the tune of 'if study 1 says A and study 2 says B then surely the inconsistency means only A can be correct'. He kind of goes "Follow me on my logical journey of reasoning" which is fairly long-winded, to arrive at a determination which I would just have regarded as "inconclusive".

e.g. here is a study with better, indifferent, and worse outcomes:

Prayer and healing: A medical and scientific perspective on randomized controlled trials

Religious traditions across the world display beliefs in healing through prayer. The healing powers of prayer have been examined in triple-blind, randomized controlled trials. We illustrate randomized controlled trials on prayer and healing, with one ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So basically he collects loads and loads of these type of scenarios to sort of support his view that no god exists, and puts them all together to form his book. I don't disagree with him, yet I also dont agree with him. I was hoping for more. I think I gave up on the book about 3/4 of the way in because the approach was just so repetitve, and it also included a fair amount of bashing, which again I just found to be unobjective.

 

[Markd]

So given certain conditions, the whole world should have been flooded for a good number of months then? Unless Noah was riding the tidal wave caused by the moon and never saw the land that was exposed...

This is the kind of thing where if I had the time, I'd like to really investigate the science/history behind. My view is that there is some truth to alot of the stories in the bible, but they are so old that the context really matters.

e.g. "40 days and 40 nights" = a really long time, more than I could count because I didn't have alot of schooling
"the whole world" = my whole world, my valley in Turkey
"2 of every animal" = 2 of every animal on my farm - cows, chickens, goats and sheep.

Very few people want to unpack this - it's like it either entirely happened or it entirely didnt, depending on your camp.

 

[buka001]

I really think if you want to discuss the flood that you read the account first.

The flood was not 40 days and 40 nights - it rained for 40 days and forty nights.

Noah etc were aboard the ark for around a year.

And there were not a pair of every animal on board.

I like this because it blows Rambos theory to pieces and proves just how implausible it is.

 

[rambo919]

I like this because it blows Rambos theory to pieces and proves just how implausible it is.

How so? There are no details given for what happened after the initial flooding....... land could easily have been temporarily exposed somewhere only to be flooded again. Also this assumption that the mountain ranges existed before a comet impact that broke the crust and started plate movement in the first place..... rather short sighted.

After all without the plating being broken in the first place how would mountains have formed? Everything could have been initially flooded and then mountains could have finished forming as inertia kept the plates moving....

EDIT: and then there is the fact that water would again drain back into any open underground reservoirs which would take a long time. And it does not state how long it took for the ocean levels to stop lowering.

 

[rambo919]

So given certain conditions, the whole world should have been flooded for a good number of months then? Unless Noah was riding the tidal wave caused by the moon and never saw the land that was exposed...

Yep, once you are on such a wave you wont easilly get off of it. It would also probably be quite calm at the top to boot.

 

[Ponderer]

How so? There are no details given for what happened after the initial flooding....... land could easily have been temporarily exposed somewhere only to be flooded again. Also this assumption that the mountain ranges existed before a comet impact that broke the crust and started plate movement in the first place..... rather short sighted.

After all without the plating being broken in the first place how would mountains have formed? Everything could have been initially flooded and then mountains could have finished forming as inertia kept the plates moving....

Maybe the clever Atheists can explain why there be fossils of aquatic (marine) species on some mountain peaks.

 

[rambo919]

Maybe the clever Atheists can explain why there be fossils of aquatic (marine) species on some mountain peaks.

Well Dawkins once admitted aliens was a possibility.....

 

[daveza]

How so? There are no details given for what happened after the initial flooding....... land could easily have been temporarily exposed somewhere only to be flooded again. Also this assumption that the mountain ranges existed before a comet impact that broke the crust and started plate movement in the first place..... rather short sighted.

It rained for 40 days and 40 nights then stopped.

So nothing would have exposed the peaks and then covered them up again.

Scripture says the water covered the mountain peaks - so there were mountains ....

Only after a year on the ark did the dove come back with proof that life had returned to the earth.

( don't ask how an olive tree was able to grow and get new leaves after being underwater for 12 months... )

 

[daveza]

Maybe the clever Atheists can explain why there be fossils of aquatic (marine) species on some mountain peaks.

Because some mountains were once sea-bed ?

 

[Ponderer]

Well Dawkins once admitted aliens was a possibility.....

Aaah - if Dawkins said it was possible, then it is more than just possible - it must then be fact.
He is such a brilliant scientist.

 

[Spizz]

Maybe the clever Atheists can explain why there be fossils of aquatic (marine) species on some mountain peaks.

They were the left overs from Noahs supper. He chucked the bones over the side of the ark.

 

[Ponderer]

Because some mountains were once sea-bed ?

Correct.

 

[EADC]

Ahhh gotta love the circle jerk that any vaguely religious thread turns into...

@Ponderer, you have shown in multiple threads that you are entirely clueless about science...

Could have just stopped at clueless

 

[ToxicBunny]

How so? There are no details given for what happened after the initial flooding....... land could easily have been temporarily exposed somewhere only to be flooded again. Also this assumption that the mountain ranges existed before a comet impact that broke the crust and started plate movement in the first place..... rather short sighted.

After all without the plating being broken in the first place how would mountains have formed? Everything could have been initially flooded and then mountains could have finished forming as inertia kept the plates moving....

EDIT: and then there is the fact that water would again drain back into any open underground reservoirs which would take a long time. And it does not state how long it took for the ocean levels to stop lowering.

Umm again just nope... Science (and the evidence of plate tectonics etc) totally disagrees with your opinion on this.