Jesus did not die on cross, says scholar

mercurial

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Jesus may not have died nailed to the cross because there is no evidence that the Romans crucified prisoners two thousand years ago, a scholar has claimed.

The legend of his execution is based on the traditions of the Christian church and artistic illustrations rather than antique texts, according to theologian Gunnar Samuelsson.

He claims the Bible has been misinterpreted as there are no explicit references the use of nails or to crucifixion - only that Jesus bore a "staurus" towards Calvary which is not necessarily a cross but can also mean a "pole".

Mr Samuelsson, who has written a 400-page thesis after studying the original texts, said: "The problem is descriptions of crucifixions are remarkably absent in the antique literature.

"The sources where you would expect to find support for the established understanding of the event really don't say anything."

The ancient Greek, Latin and Hebrew literature from Homer to the first century AD describe an arsenal of suspension punishments but none mention "crosses" or "crucifixion."

Mr Samuelsson, of Gothenburg University, said: "Consequently, the contemporary understanding of crucifixion as a punishment is severely challenged.

"And what's even more challenging is the same can be concluded about the accounts of the crucifixion of Jesus. The New Testament doesn't say as much as we'd like to believe."

Any evidence that Jesus was left to die after being nailed to a cross is strikingly sparse - both in the ancient pre-Christian and extra-Biblical literature as well as The Bible.

Mr Samuelsson, a committed Christian himself, admitted his claims are so close to the heart of his faith that it is easy to react emotionally instead of logically.

Mr Samuelsson said the actual execution texts do not describe how Christ was attached to the execution device.

He said: "This is the heart of the problem. The text of the passion narratives is not that exact and information loaded, as we Christians sometimes want it to be."

Mr Samuelsson said: "If you are looking for texts that depict the act of nailing persons to a cross you will not find any beside the Gospels."

A lot of contemporary literature all use the same vague terminology - including the Latin accounts.

Nor does the Latin word crux automatically refer to a cross while patibulum refer to the cross-beam. Both words are used in a wider sense that that.

Mr Samuelsson said: "That a man named Jesus existed in that part of the world and in that time is well-documented. He left a rather good foot-print in the literature of the time.

"I do believe that the mentioned man is the son of God. My suggestion is not that Christians should reject or doubt the biblical text.

"My suggestion is that we should read the text as it is, not as we think it is. We should read on the lines, not between the lines. The text of the Bible is sufficient. We do not need to add anything."
Source
 
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Necuno

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#2
point of the thread ? mass conversion to atheism ? we all lolol in agreement from the atheism corner ? or god forbid you want the theists explain their "miss-believe" ?... jawol another theism VS atheism...insert R1 into jar™...

ok seriously now what were you expecting to accomplish with this post or what's it's purpose apart from a link and a quote ?
 
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undesign

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#4
you are both welcome to astral travel to another sub-forum to troll if so inclined of course... ;-)
 

HapticSimian

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#5
Did you two actually read the quoted text? It's merely an fairly learned man's opinion that the stereotypical image of the crucifixion is not well supported by sources outside of scripture. Hardly atheist propaganda... :rolleyes:

It's an interesting opinion, nothing more.
 

Necuno

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#6
Theists vs Atheists only. ;-)
sure ;-)

Did you two actually read the quoted text? It's merely an fairly learned man's opinion that the stereotypical image of the crucifixion is not well supported by sources outside of scripture. Hardly atheist propaganda... :rolleyes:

It's an interesting opinion, nothing more.
and it servers the point of <insert> ?, take good guess it's another let's see what the theists say now :rolleyes:
 

HapticSimian

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and it servers the point of <insert> ?, take good guess it's another let's see what the theists say now :rolleyes:
Ya, especially since the man in question opines:
...that a man named Jesus existed in that part of the world and in that time is well-documented. He left a rather good foot-print in the literature of the time.

I do believe that the mentioned man is the son of God. My suggestion is not that Christians should reject or doubt the biblical text.
No... wait. :rolleyes: right back at you. :p The chap who did the research is (and remains) a professing Christian, yet the OP wants to "see what the theists say now"...? Does. Not. Compute.

You've been 'round long enough to know it's mercurial's thing... posting tidbits he happens upon across teh innerwebz, usually tagged with 'weird'. Sure, more often than not not exactly conducive to discussion, but I've seen him post some thought-provoking stuff. You're just digging waaaaaaaaaay to deep to expose them evil atheists now.
 

Necuno

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#8
Ya, especially since the man in question opines:


No... wait. :rolleyes: right back at you. :p The chap who did the research is (and remains) a professing Christian, yet the OP wants to "see what the theists say now"...? Does. Not. Compute.

You've been 'round long enough to know it's mercurial's thing... posting tidbits he happens upon across teh innerwebz, usually tagged with 'weird'. Sure, more often than not not exactly conducive to discussion, but I've seen him post some thought-provoking stuff. You're just digging waaaaaaaaaay to deep to expose them evil atheists now.
not much of a [-]Philosophical[/-] Christian Religion debate if it's a link-quote-run.
 

LabAnimal

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#9
Did you two actually read the quoted text? It's merely an fairly learned man's opinion that the stereotypical image of the crucifixion is not well supported by sources outside of scripture. Hardly atheist propaganda... :rolleyes:

It's an interesting opinion, nothing more.
+1
 

HapticSimian

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#10
not much of a [-]Philosophical[/-] Christian Religion debate if it's a link-quote-run.
Yes, agreed... but that's what mercurial does. :p More often in OT than anywhere else (usually some 'alien' that turns out to be a shaven sloth or similar), but then if anyone can wrestle a discussion from a dead-end post, it's the PD regulars. :D

EDIT

If anything, the title is a little misleading. One's inclination is to stop at "Jesus did not die..." when "on cross" is probably more significant. But you're right, this thread isn't nearly toxic enough for PD.
 
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Necuno

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#11
Yes, agreed... but that's what mercurial does. :p More often in OT than anywhere else (usually some 'alien' that turns out to be a shaven sloth or similar), but then if anyone can wrestle a discussion from a dead-end post, it's the PD regulars. :D
you mean PDtv addicts.
 

Pooky

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#12
Atheists seem REALLY preoccupied with trying to refute theists beliefs. Why can't you guys just be content in thinking that there is no God? You are doing the same thing that you accuse theists of doing; forcing their beliefs on people.
 

HapticSimian

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#13
Atheists seem REALLY preoccupied with trying to refute theists beliefs. Why can't you guys just be content in thinking that there is no God? You are doing the same thing that you accuse theists of doing; forcing their beliefs on people.
Another one... first read, then comment. ;)
 

HapticSimian

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#16
My comment was not in relation to this thread.
OK then. So what is it exactly with women and maps? :p

Who didn't know this?
Apparently some chap who wrote a 400 page thesis on the subject. Thinking about it, I must confess that I've also heard the notion before - crucifixion just wasn't the choice method of execution at the time... or something. Haven't really ever read much on the topic though. I wouldn't mind skimming through the study.
 

noxibox

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#17
mass conversion to atheism ?
Don't be ridiculous. Judaism is obviously the way to go. This academic is clearly a Jewish mole in deep cover.

You are doing the same thing that you accuse theists of doing; forcing their beliefs on people.
Yes, I'm set on passing laws to require all theists to marry someone of the same sex. Next I'll force all children to attend atheism classes and have atheism meetings before school.
 

Archer

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#18
Atheists seem REALLY preoccupied with trying to refute theists beliefs. Why can't you guys just be content in thinking that there is no God? You are doing the same thing that you accuse theists of doing; forcing their beliefs on people.
There are actually very few atheists doing this. How many athiests walk around door to door trying to get you to come to church? I've not seen/heard of a single one, but have had numerous theists stand at my door over the years. How many athiests stand outside stadiums handing our pamphlets? Again, I've not seen/heard of a single one, but been handed 4 pamphlets already this world cup. And besides, athiests have just as much right as theists to try get people to see 'the light.' What gives theists sole mandate on that? From a theist point of view, they want to save your soul. From an athiests view, they want you to see the truth.
 

smokey

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#20
There are actually very few atheists doing this. How many athiests walk around door to door trying to get you to come to church? I've not seen/heard of a single one, but have had numerous theists stand at my door over the years. How many athiests stand outside stadiums handing our pamphlets? Again, I've not seen/heard of a single one, but been handed 4 pamphlets already this world cup. And besides, athiests have just as much right as theists to try get people to see 'the light.' What gives theists sole mandate on that? From a theist point of view, they want to save your soul. From an athiests view, they want you to see the truth.
I'm sure there are Dawkins' Witnesses somewhere in the world...

PS: The last bit - the theists might want to save your soul - but no man can claim to know the truth of this particular matter. It's not possible, so it's just a matter of opinion.
 
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