Jimmy Carter on North Korea

Syndyre

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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/opinion/11carter.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

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Op-Ed Contributor
Solving the Korean Stalemate, One Step at a Time

By JIMMY CARTER
Published: October 11, 2006

ATLANTA

IN 1994 the North Koreans expelled inspectors of the International Atomic Energy Agency and were threatening to process spent nuclear fuel into plutonium, giving them the ability to produce nuclear weapons.

With the risk of war on the Korean Peninsula, there was a consensus that the forces of South Korea and the United States could overwhelmingly defeat North Korea. But it was also known that North Korea could quickly launch more than 20,000 shells and missiles into nearby Seoul. The American commander in South Korea, Gen. Gary Luck, estimated that total casualties would far exceed those of the Korean War.

Responding to an invitation from President Kim Il-sung of North Korea, and with the approval of President Bill Clinton, I went to Pyongyang and negotiated an agreement under which North Korea would cease its nuclear program at Yongbyon and permit inspectors from the atomic agency to return to the site to assure that the spent fuel was not reprocessed. It was also agreed that direct talks would be held between the two Koreas.

The spent fuel (estimated to be adequate for a half-dozen bombs) continued to be monitored, and extensive bilateral discussions were held. The United States assured the North Koreans that there would be no military threat to them, that it would supply fuel oil to replace the lost nuclear power and that it would help build two modern atomic power plants, with their fuel rods and operation to be monitored by international inspectors. The summit talks resulted in South Korean President Kim Dae-jung earning the 2000 Nobel Peace Prize for his successful efforts to ease tensions on the peninsula.

But beginning in 2002, the United States branded North Korea as part of an axis of evil, threatened military action, ended the shipments of fuel oil and the construction of nuclear power plants and refused to consider further bilateral talks. In their discussions with me at this time, North Korean spokesmen seemed convinced that the American positions posed a serious danger to their country and to its political regime.


Responding in its ill-advised but predictable way, Pyongyang withdrew from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, expelled atomic energy agency inspectors, resumed processing fuel rods and began developing nuclear explosive devices.

Six-nation talks finally concluded in an agreement last September that called for North Korea to abandon all nuclear weapons and existing nuclear programs and for the United States and North Korea to respect each other’s sovereignty, exist peacefully together and take steps to normalize relations. Each side subsequently claimed that the other had violated the agreement. The United States imposed severe financial sanctions and Pyongyang adopted the deeply troubling nuclear option.

The current military situation is similar but worse than it was a decade ago: we can still destroy North Korea’s army, but if we do it is likely to result in many more than a million South Korean and American casualties.

If and when it is confirmed that the recent explosion in North Korea was nuclear, the international community will once again be faced with difficult choices.

One option, the most likely one, is to try to force Pyongyang’s leaders to abandon their nuclear program with military threats and a further tightening of the embargoes, increasing the suffering of its already starving people. Two important facts must be faced: Kim Jong-il and his military leaders have proven themselves almost impervious to outside pressure, and both China and South Korea have shown that they are reluctant to destabilize the regime. This approach is also more likely to stimulate further nuclear weapons activity.

The other option is to make an effort to put into effect the September denuclearization agreement, which the North Koreans still maintain is feasible. The simple framework for a step-by-step agreement exists, with the United States giving a firm and direct statement of no hostile intent, and moving toward normal relations if North Korea forgoes any further nuclear weapons program and remains at peace with its neighbors. Each element would have to be confirmed by mutual actions combined with unimpeded international inspections.

Although a small nuclear test is a far cry from even a crude deliverable bomb, this second option has become even more difficult now, but it is unlikely that the North Koreans will back down unless the United States meets this basic demand. Washington’s pledge of no direct talks could be finessed through secret discussions with a trusted emissary like former Secretary of State Jim Baker, who earlier this week said, “It’s not appeasement to talk to your enemies.”

What must be avoided is to leave a beleaguered nuclear nation convinced that it is permanently excluded from the international community, its existence threatened, its people suffering horrible deprivation and its hard-liners in total control of military and political policy.

Jimmy Carter, the 39th president, is the founder of the Carter Center and the winner of the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize.

So it seems like Bush started this whole thing off, surprise!
 

icyrus

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So it seems like Bush started this whole thing off, surprise!

That is a short-sighted view. North Korea's problems are of their own making. The US doesn't have any issue with South Korea...
 

Syndyre

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I agree, ultimately North Korea is a despotic Stalinist Communist-holdover hellhole. But just as Saddam was a bast*rd the situtation could still have been handled better.
 

Alan

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So it seems like Bush started this whole thing off, surprise!

Jimmy Carter Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhhahahahah- wipe away tears - Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Gotta get my breath back.

Yeah it's all Bush's fault. :rolleyes:
 

Syndyre

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Please don't hurt us we will give everything you want.
It worked for Neville Chamberlain didn't it? :sick:

Don't think that's really a fair comparison, in some cases negotiations can work, in others not.
 

pupa

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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/opinion/11carter.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

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So it seems like Bush started this whole thing off, surprise!

What is not a surprise is the mindset at play here that that Bush is the culprit here! again, the evil instigator of everything. Just like Apartheid here is the excuse used for all our local strive! How feeble and stupid the world populace have become. South Korea is a cesspit is it not? Huh, prolly no thanks to the Americans! NK is what is is due to their own doing and adhering to communist/socialist principals! a doomed ideology and failure like everywhere else it is adhered too, even where there is false demoncracy's like our own or like Zim!
 

Syndyre

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What is not a surprise is the mindset at play here that that Bush is the culprit here! again, the evil instigator of everything. Just like Apartheid here is the excuse used for all our local strive! How feeble and stupid the world populace have become. South Korea is a cesspit is it not? Huh, prolly no thanks to the Americans! NK is what is is due to their own doing and adhering to communist/socialist principals! a doomed ideology and failure like everywhere else it is adhered too, even where there is false demoncracy's like our own or like Zim!

I think you're misunderstanding me. I've said repeatedly and categorically that NK is a backward hellhole and that that is of their own doing. Bush clearly isn't the only culprit, if Kim Jong Il and his psychotic regime didn't exist there wouldn't be a problem. All I was saying is that Bush could've handled it better, presumably we hold the US to higher standards than we do North Korea.
 

icyrus

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Don't think that's really a fair comparison, in some cases negotiations can work, in others not.

Indeed. The problem is that its not really negotiation with NK. Its getting to the stage where they are saying 'do what we want or else'.
 

Syndyre

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Indeed. The problem is that its not really negotiation with NK. Its getting to the stage where they are saying 'do what we want or else'.

True, the problem is you don't want to give in to them, but the "or else" is pretty scary.
 

kilo39

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That is a short-sighted view. North Korea's problems are of their own making. The US doesn't have any issue with South Korea...

Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, sat on the board of a company which three years ago sold two light water nuclear reactors to North Korea - a country he now regards as part of the "axis of evil" and which has been targeted for regime change by Washington because of its efforts to build nuclear weapons.
-
Just months after Mr Rumsfeld took office, President George Bush ended the policy of engagement and negotiation pursued by Mr Clinton, saying he did not trust North Korea, and pulled the plug on diplomacy. Pyongyang warned that it would respond by building nuclear missiles. A review of American policy was announced and the bilateral confidence building steps, key to Mr Clinton's policy of detente, halted.
The two faces of Rumsfeld Friday May 9, 2003

and some more for the bush supporters on this thread:

Do not glibly say (in ignorance or after consulting only right wing sources) "My Party's leader (President Bush) has acted, it is my duty to trust his judgment." That is not discharging the duty of a responsible conservative and citizen of a free society. That is being an idiot, or a fascist.
[source]
 

pupa

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Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, sat on the board of a company which three years ago sold two light water nuclear reactors to North Korea - a country he now regards as part of the "axis of evil" and which has been targeted for regime change by Washington because of its efforts to build nuclear weapons.
-
Just months after Mr Rumsfeld took office, President George Bush ended the policy of engagement and negotiation pursued by Mr Clinton, saying he did not trust North Korea, and pulled the plug on diplomacy. Pyongyang warned that it would respond by building nuclear missiles. A review of American policy was announced and the bilateral confidence building steps, key to Mr Clinton's policy of detente, halted.
The two faces of Rumsfeld Friday May 9, 2003

and some more for the bush supporters on this thread:

Do not glibly say (in ignorance or after consulting only right wing sources) "My Party's leader (President Bush) has acted, it is my duty to trust his judgment." That is not discharging the duty of a responsible conservative and citizen of a free society. That is being an idiot, or a fascist.
[source]

Kilo Kilo...it is fact that with many of these individuals you can have a diplomacy but yet behind your back they have other dubious agendas in mind! Deal with the devil if you please, he will fry you anyway as and when it pleases him! Look at many issues, even during WWII, so called alliances that crumbled! Look at China now, Why defy your neighbour and only "friend"

Fact is we all know You hate the Bush USA and as such take your comments in that light!
 

icyrus

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Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, sat on the board of a company which three years ago sold two light water nuclear reactors to North Korea - a country he now regards as part of the "axis of evil" and which has been targeted for regime change by Washington because of its efforts to build nuclear weapons.
-
Just months after Mr Rumsfeld took office, President George Bush ended the policy of engagement and negotiation pursued by Mr Clinton, saying he did not trust North Korea, and pulled the plug on diplomacy. Pyongyang warned that it would respond by building nuclear missiles. A review of American policy was announced and the bilateral confidence building steps, key to Mr Clinton's policy of detente, halted.
The two faces of Rumsfeld Friday May 9, 2003

and some more for the bush supporters on this thread:

Do not glibly say (in ignorance or after consulting only right wing sources) "My Party's leader (President Bush) has acted, it is my duty to trust his judgment." That is not discharging the duty of a responsible conservative and citizen of a free society. That is being an idiot, or a fascist.
[source]

What is your point and how is it relevant to what I said?
 

kilo39

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Kilo Kilo...it is fact that with many of these individuals you can have a diplomacy but yet behind your back they have other dubious agendas in mind! Deal with the devil if you please, he will fry you anyway as and when it pleases him! Look at many issues, even during WWII, so called alliances that crumbled! Look at China now, Why defy your neighbour and only "friend"

Fact is we all know You hate the Bush USA and as such take your comments in that light!
They are not my comments pupa (in this instance) - they are the comments of concerned americans (and unbiased reporting from guardian.co.uk)

We see it still, as we always have, in our firefighters, our soldiers, our police and the good people who reach out every day in countless ways to help and protect each other in the United States. Where we have never seen it is in the administration of George W. Bush, so obsessed with its glorious fight against evil that it failed to contain the burgeoning dangers in the real world all around us.
Excess of Evil Oct. 10, 06
 

kilo39

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What is your point and how is it relevant to what I said?

-->That is a short-sighted view. North Korea's problems are of their own making. The US doesn't have any issue with South Korea..

There was an agreement with N.Korea (an always recalcitrant nation) - Bush rescinded that - nevermind the fact his own Secretary of Defense sold them the tech in the first place.

There was no axis of evil (beyond the banana republic it always was) - there was an agreement//which GB tore up!! He created the evil north.

And let's not forget that Pakistan sold them the nuke plans - a country bush is quite happy to turn a blind eye to - even though they went "live" - and america knew nothing of it. But GB has NOTHING TO SAY - in fact - he sold them more tech a little while ago (patting them on the back - for exploding NUCLEAR BOMBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

FFS.
 
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icyrus

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-->That is a short-sighted view. North Korea's problems are of their own making. The US doesn't have any issue with South Korea..

There was an agreement with N.Korea (an always recalcitrant nation) - Bush rescinded that - nevermind the fact his own Secretary of Defense sold them the tech in the first place.

There was no axis of evil (beyond the banana republic it always was) - there was an agreement//which GB tore up!! He created the evil north.

And let's not forget that Pakistan sold them the nuke plans - a country bush is quite happy to turn a blind eye to - even though they went "live" - and america knew nothing of it. But GB has NOTHING TO SAY - in fact - he sold them more tech a little while ago (patting them on the back - for exploding NUCLEAR BOMBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

FFS.

So what is the essential difference between NK and Pakistan?
 

kilo39

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So what is the essential difference between NK and Pakistan?
Did you even read the post?

Pakistan is a muslim country run by a military dictatorship - who sold nuclear plans to NK - they have exploded multinuclear devices (and are at constant war with India - another nuclear power - neither of which america knew about before it happened - ya, lets rather spy on us citizens instead.) But they are George's buddy.

Now you tell me what is the difference?

[tick tock]

Okay - I'll tell you - there is no difference - except GB is a double dealing scumbag with no morals who happily sends thousands of american troops to their death in the name of 9/11 - while supporting despot regimes in his "war against terror" - who sold "the enemy" the same plans they used to explode multinuclear weapons - of which george has got nothing to say.

I notice he has dropped his "fascist" rhetoric. I wonder why? Could it be because [he] is the fascist?
 
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Alan

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Poor old Kilo way off the mark. It seems I'll have to clean up his mindless drivel with facts again :rolleyes:

In some respects the Pakistan and NK situation is the same. Both were allowed to develop nuclear arsenals due to the Clinton administration's appeasing policies. During the 90's Pakistan and India were left free to research nukes while Clinton decided not to get involved. NK on the other hand tried to blackmail Clinton into giving them products in exchange for discontinuing their research.

Well everyne knows NK would never give up the research because of two factors. 1. Kim Il-sung's policy of putting the military first and 2. he has a bad case of paranoia perhaps exacerbated by his short stature ;) . Now Clinton knowing that a confrontation would harm his PR(his support base ie: Kilo would be calling him a fascist) sends his peace-nik Carter(the moden day Chamberlain) to grovel at the feat of Kim Il-sung. Kim Il-sung of course accepts, until of course he needs more or feels ignored. Clinton and Carter get the plaudits of "peace in the Korean peninsula"( sounds a bit like Chamberlains "peace in our time") They know sooner rather then later NK research would start up again but then the next poor president would have to deal with it.

Then of course in 2002 the Bush administration was told by NK that they had in fact been doing research into nukes all along. That is why Bush is using six way talks so that NK can't lie to the U.S alone. They would be lying to their ally China as well. NK know this and that is why they are kicking up a stink.

The bottom line is we are paying the price for Clinton's appeasement policies during the 90's where dodgy regimes were free to do what they please with out fear of consequences. Exactly what happend in the 30's.
 
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Alan

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Did you even read the post?

Pakistan is a muslim country run by a military dictatorship - who sold nuclear plans to NK - they have exploded multinuclear devices (and are at constant war with India - another nuclear power - neither of which america knew about before it happened - ya, lets rather spy on us citizens instead.) But they are George's buddy.

Now you tell me what is the difference?

What did you expect Bush to do? Going by your stereotype of him as a warmonga "like Churchil and Reagon:rolleyes:" he should have gone in there all guns blazing. But did he, Noooo. Instead he used diplomacy bringing possibly the most important element in the war onto his(your:p ) side.Or atleast as close as you could get them.

Pakistan had nukes before he came to power. It is not his fault,it's Clinton's fault. Unfortunatly in Clintons infinite wisdom he allowed a muslim state with a large anti west population to get nukes. Luckily for Bush(you:p ) the secular military is in charge to keep a lid on things. It's not pretty but in life these things have to be done for the greater good. Once the threatning tyrants are delt with you can turn to regimes like Saudia Arabia and Pakistan and help them to evolve into democracies through diplomacy. You seem to forget diplomacy was tried with Iraq but they turned there nose up and so got hit by a big stick.

Saying that,a nuke armed Pakstan and NK scares me and so should it scare you. You are obviously ignorant or stupid maybe even insane if it doesn't.
 

kilo39

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Then of course in 2002 the Bush administration was told by NK that they had in fact been doing research into nukes all along. That is why Bush is using six way talks so that NK can't lie to the U.S alone. They would be lying to their ally China as well. NK know this and that is why they are kicking up a stink.

The bottom line is we are paying the price for Clinton's appeasement policies during the 90's where dodgy regimes were free to do what they please with out fear of consequences. Exactly what happend in the 30's.
Ag please - we all know NK is full of [pick a word.] They are a tinpot despotic state that would have withered up a long time ago if it wasn't for china - and food imports/aid from the west.

Now Clinton knowing that a confrontation would harm his PR(his support base ie: Kilo would be calling him a fascist) sends his peace-nik Carter(the moden day Chamberlain) to grovel at the feat of Kim Il-sung. Kim Il-sung of course accepts, until of course he needs more or feels ignored. Clinton and Carter get the plaudits of "peace in the Korean peninsula"( sounds a bit like Chamberlains "peace in our time") They know sooner rather then later NK research would start up again but then the next poor president would have to deal with it.

Whether or not - America "groveling at the feet of Kim" - makes any difference is besides the point: NK exists by the good graces of the west and a fear of China - they could no more "launch weapons against america - or anywhere else" - without getting wiped off the face of the earth (china be damned) - and this is the problem with you rightwing zealots; you create a problem where one didn't exist - then accuse the liberals of being soft. Meanwhile... back at the ranch a tinpot dictator has a real problem of credibility - hence will escalate - not helped by GB's "Axis of Evil" - he created the axis - and is now incapable of dealing with it - typical.

Iraq continues to flaunt its hostility toward America and to support terror. The Iraqi regime has plotted to develop anthrax, and nerve gas, and nuclear weapons for over a decade. This is a regime that has already used poison gas to murder thousands of its own citizens -- leaving the bodies of mothers huddled over their dead children. This is a regime that agreed to international inspections -- then kicked out the inspectors. This is a regime that has something to hide from the civilized world.

States like these, and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. By seeking weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger. They could provide these arms to terrorists, giving them the means to match their hatred. They could attack our allies or attempt to blackmail the United States. In any of these cases, the price of indifference would be catastrophic.

President Delivers State of the Union Address January 29, 2002


For years, the United States and the international community have tried to negotiate an end to North Korea’s nuclear and missile development and its export of ballistic missile technology. Those efforts were dealt a severe setback in early October, when Pyongyang acknowledged having a secret program to enrich uranium for use in nuclear weapons, shocking Washington and capitals around the world.
Arms Control Association June 2003

Note the dates.

Now - who exactly doesn't have their story right?!

Then of course in 2002 the Bush administration was told by NK that they had in fact been doing research into nukes all along. That is why Bush is using six way talks so that NK can't lie to the U.S alone. They would be lying to their ally China as well. NK know this and that is why they are kicking up a stink.
 
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