JUST IN | UCT considering mandatory Covid-19 vaccination policy for students, staff

Iwojima

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Still think this is a strange mandate when intended to halt the spread of the virus when the most compelling evidence demonstrates that the current vaccines reduce the severity if caught, not whether you'll catch it/pass it on.
 

Mike Hoxbig

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Here we go again.
Still think this is a strange mandate when intended to halt the spread of the virus when the most compelling evidence demonstrates that the current vaccines reduce the severity if caught, not whether you'll catch it/pass it on.
This is the way things are going. It's best you make peace with it. It's to stop responsible people from passing it onto irresponsible people, who then prevent the healthcare system from providing care to those who actually need it. Good luck fighting a losing battle...
 

Iwojima

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Here we go again.

This is the way things are going. It's best you make peace with it. It's to stop responsible people from passing it onto irresponsible people, who then prevent the healthcare system from providing care to those who actually need it. Good luck fighting a losing battle...
Hence why I say it is odd when mandatory vaccination is intended to stop the spread when the data indicates it reduces the severity should an individual become infected, not the ability for that individual to pass it onto another.

P.S. Don't talk down to me like I'm some sort of anti-vaxxer. I'm vaccinated and chose to do so in order to reduce the chances of a severe reaction.
 

lumeer

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But is it really the case the vaccinated people are as contagious as unvaccinated people?
 

Iwojima

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But is it really the case the vaccinated people are as contagious as unvaccinated people?
Right at the beginning of the pandemic and until quite recently the theory of heard immunity and a slowed rate of infection was one that was proposed. It was suggested that once a vaccine became available it would assist in this.

Looking at the stats this has not proven to be the case, and is not likely to be the case going forward considering the recent mutations and the lack of efficacy demonstrated by vaccines designed for earlier variants.

That said, perhaps if a vaccine at least reduces the severity of a reaction to the virus and limits the symptoms in an individual, perhaps that would make one less virulent?
 

Gordon_R

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Right at the beginning of the pandemic and until quite recently the theory of heard immunity and a slowed rate of infection was one that was proposed. It was suggested that once a vaccine became available it would assist in this.

Looking at the stats this has not proven to be the case, and is not likely to be the case going forward considering the recent mutations and the lack of efficacy demonstrated by vaccines designed for earlier variants.

That said, perhaps if a vaccine at least reduces the severity of a reaction to the virus and limits the symptoms in an individual, perhaps that would make one less virulent?

The Delta variant produces such a high viral load, particularly in pre-symptomatic cases, that vaccine status seems to have a minor effect on transmission rates. See:

And:
 
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Mirai

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UCT is hardcore when it comes to people working on campus. People have to book their office slots. They have to pass daily screening via app as well. Considering retirement age is 65, I have no idea why they are so heavy handed.
 

surface

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Still think this is a strange mandate when intended to halt the spread of the virus when the most compelling evidence demonstrates that the current vaccines reduce the severity if caught, not whether you'll catch it/pass it on.
What would be your decision if you were the decision maker?
 

Gordon_R

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What would be your decision if you were the decision maker?

Making an irrational decision based on fear and political pressure doesn't make it any more valid. It is tempting to think that large organisations have the brain power to figure this out, but they are just as credulous as the broader public.

The only proven way to limit transmission is mask wearing and social distancing. Everything else is 'theater' (going through the motions).

Protecting middle-aged staff is a valid criterion, but students are by definition a low risk category.

Anyway the OP says they are considering the measure. Deciding not to would be a sign of academic freedom.
 

surface

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Making an irrational decision based on fear and political pressure doesn't make it any more valid. It is tempting to think that large organisations have the brain power to figure this out, but they are just as credulous as the broader public.

The only proven way to limit transmission is mask wearing and social distancing. Everything else is 'theater' (going through the motions).

Protecting middle-aged staff is a valid criterion, but students are by definition a low risk category.

Anyway the OP says they are considering the measure. Deciding not to would be a sign of academic freedom.
So, if UCT takes decision to make vaccines mandatory, no academic freedom. If they don't, yebo for freedom. Got it. I am glad I don't have to decide such things.
 

C4Cat

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Still think this is a strange mandate when intended to halt the spread of the virus when the most compelling evidence demonstrates that the current vaccines reduce the severity if caught, not whether you'll catch it/pass it on.
Your chances of getting infected are dramatically reduced if you're vaccinated. Break through infections do happen but they are not common.
 

konfab

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Here we go again.

This is the way things are going. It's best you make peace with it. It's to stop responsible people from passing it onto irresponsible people, who then prevent the healthcare system from providing care to those who actually need it. Good luck fighting a losing battle...

Target demographic for a university are mainly young people, supposedly "educated" people. Hardly the risk group for saving the socialist healthcare system from collapsing. And there is ample evidence that vaccines only slightly decrease the transmission of the coof. Which means your argument about protecting other people is moot.

If your goal is protecting the socialist healthcare system from being overloaded with sick people, then the target needs to be poor, old people who don't have health insurance. Hence if you **really** wanted to save the healthcare system from collapsing, the SA government would make old-age pension pay outs dependant on being vaccinated or having a medical exemption from being vaccinated.
 

konfab

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The only proven way to limit transmission is mask wearing and social distancing. Everything else is 'theater' (going through the motions).
You are wrong there as well. Covid is most likely spread by aerosols, not droplets. Which renders your cloth mask useless. The only mask that would actually do something will be an n-95 mask.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

If you wanted a broad solution to the problem of respiratory illnesses. It is stupidly simple; it is proper ventilation.

To get a glimpse into that future, you need only peek into the classrooms where Li teaches or the Crossfit gym where Marr jumps boxes and slams medicine balls. In the earliest days of the pandemic, Li convinced the administrators at the University of Hong Kong to spend most of its Covid-19 budget on upgrading the ventilation in buildings and buses rather than on things such as mass Covid testing of students. Marr reviewed blueprints and HVAC schematics with the owner of her gym, calculating the ventilation rates and consulting on a redesign that moved workout stations outside and near doors that were kept permanently open. To date, no one has caught Covid at the gym. Li’s university, a school of 30,000 students, has recorded a total of 23 Covid-19 cases. Of course Marr’s gym is small, and the university benefited from the fact that Asian countries, scarred by the 2003 SARS epidemic, were quick to recognize aerosol transmission. But Marr's and Li’s swift actions could well have improved their odds. Ultimately, that’s what public health guidelines do: They tilt people and places closer to safety.

It is why the really dumb policies of allowing people to go to a mall, but ban them from going to the beach or to walk their dog will go down as the dumbest decision in the long sad history of dumb decisions.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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do it UCT! you'll have on campus violence that makes #RhodesMustFall a fond memory of less violent times
 

Nerfherder

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Still think this is a strange mandate when intended to halt the spread of the virus when the most compelling evidence demonstrates that the current vaccines reduce the severity if caught, not whether you'll catch it/pass it on.
You just answered your own question.... but the evidence shows that it does both reduce the spread and severity of the virus.

I think that for people returning to the campus, a vaccine is an excellent idea
 

Brawler

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Will be interesting to see what happens. I work closely with UCT (Health) and I know quite a few contractors who refuse to take the vaccines.
 

Nanfeishen

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if you **really** wanted to save the healthcare system from collapsing, the SA government would make old-age pension pay outs dependant on being vaccinated or having a medical exemption from being vaccinated.
Really ?
So your suggestion is to target those already struggling to now be deprived of the little they get as it is.

The health care system was borked to begin with , long before this Covid cr@p.
Its high time people woke up to that fact, and instead of expecting the public to "save' the healthcare system , how about people focus on the governments systematic screw-up of health care and pressure them into spending more on the system that tax money is meant to fund anyway, instead of squandering it.
Hospitals are over loaded due to lack of expenditure , lack of planning and lack of proper governance.
 

konfab

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Really ?
So your suggestion is to target those already struggling to now be deprived of the little they get as it is.

The health care system was borked to begin with , long before this Covid cr@p.
Its high time people woke up to that fact, and instead of expecting the public to "save' the healthcare system , how about people focus on the governments systematic screw-up of health care and pressure them into spending more on the system that tax money is meant to fund anyway, instead of squandering it.
Hospitals are over loaded due to lack of expenditure , lack of planning and lack of proper governance.
Hence why I said **really**, with the heavily emphasised inverted commas. I doubt even our progressive friends would be psychopathic enough to cancel a welfare grant.
 
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