Lamborghini trapped at 251km/h

[Leitmotif]

Usage based motoring. The insurance industry can drive it, and they do drive it in other countries. In the US, minimum age for driver's licenses is 16, but fewer road accidents because of 3 things: traffic law enforcement works, few people drink and drive and they're a lot stickier with speed limits there than here. And if you're caught driving recklessly or busted DUI or are at fault in an accident, it goes on your Insurance Record.

And there we go. Penalise the behaviour, let the guy own whatever he wants. Best suggestion in the thread.

 

[jontyB]

The speed kills thing is a true in a way, but not really how its commonly used.

While the chance of serious or fatal injury increases with speed, the same cannot be said about the chance of having an accident. There are many more factors involved then just speed.

I agree with you in part, but the biggest cause of late night incidents is primarily speed related and only secondarily alcohol and other factor related. Speeding is the root cause, as there is this misguided perception amongst almost all drivers that a) they're excellent drivers and b) they're able and in control at any speed. It's a strange thing that in SA we have people bitching and moaning about crime, yet climb into a motor vehicle and virtually break every speed limit (and by definition commit crimes) from their start point to their destination. If you want to speed without endangering other people's lives, go to the damn race track. Kyalami and Zwartkops raceway offer ample opportunities for speedfreaks to satisfy their urges in a safe and controlled environment in Gauteng. I am sure there are similar services on offer in most of the other provinces as well.

 

[jontyB]

Problem is could the insurance industry handle a system like that here?

Yes, the insurance industry in SA is very robust and industrious, and quite capable to meet legislative demands.

 

[icyrus]

I agree with you in part, but the biggest cause of late night incidents is primarily speed related and only secondarily alcohol and other factor related. Speeding is the root cause, as there is this misguided perception amongst almost all drivers that a) they're excellent drivers and b) they're able and in control at any speed. It's a strange thing that in SA we have people bitching and moaning about crime, yet climb into a motor vehicle and virtually break every speed limit (and by definition commit crimes) from their start point to their destination. If you want to speed without endangering other people's lives, go to the damn race track. Kyalami and Zwartkops raceway offer ample opportunities for speedfreaks to satisfy their urges in a safe and controlled environment in Gauteng. I am sure there are similar services on offer in most of the other provinces as well.

Speed related or driving related? How can you tell afterwards how the person was driving?

 

[jontyB]

Speed related or driving related? How can you tell afterwards how the person was driving?

Forensic investigations can accurately calculate the speeds involved in 99% of all accidents. In most of the accidents we get called out to (a waste of time for Police but we get called out f'n frequently), the driver's loss of control over the motor vehicle is most often speed related. A driver's reaction times become increasingly impaired as a direct consequence of his increasing speed. This is obvious.

 

[Nanfeishen]

Getting accidents calls is surely a requirement? , doesnt the law say that to leave the scene of an accident is unlawfull,? and for insurance purposes isnt a docket required?

 

[jontyB]

Getting accidents calls is surely a requirement? , doesnt the law say that to leave the scene of an accident is unlawfull,? and for insurance purposes isnt a docket required?

JMPD should be handling them, we just get the overrun, but the "overrun" seems to increase exponentially over a weekend.

 

[icyrus]

Forensic investigations can accurately calculate the speeds involved in 99% of all accidents. In most of the accidents we get called out to (a waste of time for Police but we get called out f'n frequently), the driver's loss of control over the motor vehicle is most often speed related. A driver's reaction times become increasingly impaired as a direct consequence of his increasing speed. This is obvious.

Yes I understand, but what I was getting at is the following:

Take for instance a car like the new BMW M5. Driving on a good surfaced highway that only has gradual meanders and in a dedicated lane to cars doing over 200km/h there is little chance of the car being involved in an accident without some sort of other factor like and obstruction, burst tyre or another car.

Now, I know no SA roads meet such criteria but I guess my point is that I would expect that more accidents involving speeding cars are related to how the person was driving rather then the speed they were doing. So I expect most accidents involve people who are weaving in and out of slow moving traffic at high-speed or who try avoid slower moving cars in the fast lane, rather than those who just lose control from cornering to fast.

I could be wrong but that is the pattern that I would expect.

 

[Nanfeishen]

Never around when there's work to be done ?

 

[jontyB]

Yes I understand, but what I was getting at is the following:

Take for instance a car like the new BMW M5. Driving on a good surfaced highway that only has gradual meanders and in a dedicated lane to cars doing over 200km/h there is little chance of the car being involved in an accident without some sort of other factor like and obstruction, burst tyre or another car.

Now, I know no SA roads meet such criteria but I guess my point is that I would expect that more accidents involving speeding cars are related to how the person was driving rather then the speed they were doing. So I expect most accidents involve people who are weaving in and out of slow moving traffic at high-speed or who try avoid slower moving cars in the fast lane, rather than those who just lose control from cornering to fast.

I could be wrong but that is the pattern that I would expect.

But you're assuming too much:

1) The car is mechanically pristine
2) The roads are designed for high speed [SA roads are NOT built for high speed], not just in good condition
3) The driver is capable of driving at high speed
4) Weaving in and out of slower moving traffic is an absolute no-no on super speedways (if you're caught, you lose your permit on the Autobahn for example)
5) The vehicles are equipped with high safety specs (in SA, what safety specs does a citi golf have, or a Toyota conquest?)
6) Avoiding slow moving traffic in the *fast* lane is relative - if proper keep left pass right protocol was followed, then there would not be a problem, except where people are obviously and blatantly driving waaaay too fast.

 

[icyrus]

But you're assuming too much:

1) The car is mechanically pristine
2) The roads are designed for high speed [SA roads are NOT built for high speed], not just in good condition
3) The driver is capable of driving at high speed
4) Weaving in and out of slower moving traffic is an absolute no-no on super speedways (if you're caught, you lose your permit on the Autobahn for example)
5) The vehicles are equipped with high safety specs (in SA, what safety specs does a citi golf have, or a Toyota conquest?)
6) Avoiding slow moving traffic in the *fast* lane is relative - if proper keep left pass right protocol was followed, then there would not be a problem, except where people are obviously and blatantly driving waaaay too fast.

I know that SA roads do not meet those standards and I even said as much. I also know that people are speeding in cars that are incapable of doing such speeds safely. I just wanted to make it clear that they are really focusing on the wrong thing.

Personally I think its good that speeders are caught and prosecuted as they know the law and wilfully disregard it. My only problem is that the government is only interested in the speeders due the revenue its brings them. Their approach to controling speeding is pathetic at best and their wilful ignoring of bigger problems on SA roads is criminal.

 

[ubberfunk]

took me a while to read this thread

1,5 years ago i was caught in my scooby-doo at 210 in a 120 zone,R15-000 and criminal record now,Guess what!!! i sold it and bought something that wont break the sound barrier anymore.

when i first saw the title of this thread "Lamborghini trapped at 251k" i was like....ONLY 251!!!!,mind you not alot of peeps have themselves a lambo do they.

 

[Kalvaer]

During a roadblock with the SAPS on the N12/N1 split on Saturday, metro police impounded 14 minibus taxis for being unroadworthy.

Do they though?
Last I noticed the only traffic law they were any good at enforcing was the speed limit one...

Untill ALL the road laws are upheld, they are not achieving their goals.

LOL... how the hell can they pull minibus taxis off the road when they are driving unroadworthy cars themselves... On Saterday night, I had two traffic officers drive past me.. BOTH had their fog lights on and one of them had a blown headlight.. They can make at least 20 x times the amount of money from pulling people over for driving with fog lights on than for speeding and then get our roads fixed so that "speeding" wouldn't be the problem anymore...

Of course then it would be the idiotic mentality of drivers in this SA.. Speed doesn't seem to kill in Germany on the Autobahn, but then thats because people there respect other drivers rights to drive at those speeds.

 

[jontyB]

I know that SA roads do not meet those standards and I even said as much. I also know that people are speeding in cars that are incapable of doing such speeds safely. I just wanted to make it clear that they are really focusing on the wrong thing.

Personally I think its good that speeders are caught and prosecuted as they know the law and wilfully disregard it. My only problem is that the government is only interested in the speeders due the revenue its brings them. Their approach to controling speeding is pathetic at best and their wilful ignoring of bigger problems on SA roads is criminal.

I take your point, but the point I'm trying to make here is that speeding is a decisive factor based on our circumstances. In other words, though there are many factors contributing to a possibility of vehicle accidents in SA, speeding enhances and compounds these factors exponentially, so much so that the addition of speeding to the equation will more likely result in a fatality.

One thing people do not grasp is the enormous energy dissipation that occurs during a motor vehicle accident, and these literally go up exponentially the faster the vehicles are traveling. It is amazing how a human body is thrown around inside a car that goes from 120 km/h to zero in under 2 seconds, e.g. when hitting a tree. Trees are immensely sturdy and cars generally stand zero chance. The forces at play go up hugely in the event of a headon collision with another car.

A few airbags and ABS breaks does not give you a license to speed.

 

[icyrus]

I take your point, but the point I'm trying to make here is that speeding is a decisive factor based on our circumstances. In other words, though there are many factors contributing to a possibility of vehicle accidents in SA, speeding enhances and compounds these factors exponentially, so much so that the addition of speeding to the equation will more likely result in a fatality.

One thing people do not grasp is the enormous energy dissipation that occurs during a motor vehicle accident, and these literally go up exponentially the faster the vehicles are traveling. It is amazing how a human body is thrown around inside a car that goes from 120 km/h to zero in under 2 seconds, e.g. when hitting a tree. Trees are immensely sturdy and cars generally stand zero chance. The forces at play go up hugely in the event of a headon collision with another car.

A few airbags and ABS breaks does not give you a license to speed.

Indeed. A basic understanding of physics should be a requirement for a drivers license.

 

[jontyB]

Indeed. A basic understanding of physics should be a requirement for a drivers license.

Yeah. And a day on skid pan, just to show you how little control of a vehicle you really have when things start to go awry.

 

[Kalvaer]

A few airbags and ABS breaks does not give you a license to speed.

What about traffic cops driving with their fog lights, blinding other rosd users so that they cant see where they are going and kill the whole family in front of them. I suffer from night blindness.. Fog lights will kill me before driving 130 will.

Its pathetic that they break the same law they pretend to uphold. It should be like the UK, A South African friend of mine who moved over to the UK has become a police man there. He finally got his License to drive a Police vehicle.. but is not allowed to put the sirens on until he completes another course.. Overkill maybe.. But so much better than our system where they get to decide that one law is more dangerous than another and blame everything on that when they are just as bad

 

[jontyB]

What about traffic cops driving with their fog lights, blinding other rosd users so that they cant see where they are going and kill the whole family in front of them. I suffer from night blindness.. Fog lights will kill me before driving 130 will.

No one is above the law. Next time, report the incident to JMPD on (011) 375 5555.

 

[Kalvaer]

No one is above the law. Next time, report the incident to JMPD on (011) 375 5555.

I'll put that number on my Cell right now... Hell I'll be phoning them today... on my way home there is this one traffic light. Its 2 blocks away from the Police station. On ALL the corners of this traffic light there are "No-Stopping signs".
Yet I can promise you today that driving home I will at least see 3 taxis stopping and picking people up since this has become their drop off zone.. and 50% of the time.. There are Police vans and cars driving right past them leaving the station at 5:00pm I've never seen one of them stop once

Hmmm just thought though.. How long does it take them to answer their phone.. whats the bet the just take the call, promise to look into it again.. and throw my paper away. Just like last week I went to the police station to report a guy skipping a stop street and nearly taking me out. Even though I had a witness, and a Photo I took of the guy as he drove away, I was told they couldn't do anything since they are not traffic police

 

[jontyB]

I'll put that number on my Cell right now... Hell I'll be phoning them today... on my way home there is this one traffic light. Its 2 blocks away from the Police station. On ALL the corners of this traffic light there are "No-Stopping signs".
Yet I can promise you today that driving home I will at least see 3 taxis stopping and picking people up since this has become their drop off zone.. and 50% of the time.. There are Police vans and cars driving right past them leaving the station at 5:00pm I've never seen one of them stop once

Hmmm just thought though.. How long does it take them to answer their phone.. whats the bet the just take the call, promise to look into it again.. and throw my paper away. Just like last week I went to the police station to report a guy skipping a stop street and nearly taking me out. Even though I had a witness, and a Photo I took of the guy as he drove away, I was told they couldn't do anything since they are not traffic police

reporting it is the first step mate. I wish people would be a little more proactive with this kind of thing. There is also a new initiative being launched where you can report bad drivers. Will get the details up on a separate thread a little later.