Landlord claiming my whole deposit

[Stonemason]

How certain are you that your 'terms and conditions' are legal... You're renting out property and it's not a once-off thing, then you're bound by the Consumer Protection Act. That Act supercedes anything you put in your contract.

If the tenant does not like my terms and conditions, they should not sign the lease. I really do not give a damn about the CPA. If a person wants to rent a place according to CPA rules they should approach the government and see if it has a proper house or townhouse to rent in the right area.

I explain my T&C's very carefully to prospective tenants and I have never found one who objected. Nor have I ever had a tenant giving me back a house with dirty paint or holes in the walls.

 

[newby_investor]

It is people like us who give young people an opportunity to live in a well maintained house in a good area without having to come up with the huge amounts needed to buy a proper house.

With no disrespect intended, my (admittedly amateur) analysis of the economy is that "people like you" are part of the reason that young people need to come up with huge amounts in order to buy a proper house. The fact that properties are viewed as investments rather than just something you need in order to get by (like a car, clothes, a computer, etc) is part of the reason why the price of property is so high.

I realise that this is a fairly complex issue, but my theory is that if all property investors were simultaneously to decide "screw it, maintaining all these properties is for schmucks, once this tenant moves I'm going to sell and invest in <something else> instead." - then gradually you'd see supply and demand driving property prices towards a place where they'd be far more affordable to those who want them.

 

[newby_investor]

If the tenant does not like my terms and conditions, they should not sign the lease. I really do not give a damn about the CPA. If a person wants to rent a place according to CPA rules they should approach the government and see if it has a proper house or townhouse to rent in the right area.

I explain my T&C's very carefully to prospective tenants and I have never found one who objected. Nor have I ever had a tenant giving me back a house with dirty paint or holes in the walls.

If you have good tenants, then you won't have a problem. Hopefully your good luck continues.

The challenge will come when you have someone who signs your lease, then later changes their mind and wants something which is mandated by the CPA but is against your lease. The contract (or at least those terms) would be legally un-enforceable then, and you may end up with a challenge like the poor OP has in this thread:

Your tenant / squatter nightmare stories ?

Just wondering what your nightmare stories are ? My girlfriend has rented out her place 01 January 2020 - 31 December 2020 and the tenant stopped paying rent in April due to Covid. But some of the nightmare points : - Employer confirms she had been receiving full rent until September - so was...

mybroadband.co.za

 

[Stonemason]

With no disrespect intended, my (admittedly amateur) analysis of the economy is that "people like you" are part of the reason that young people need to come up with huge amounts in order to buy a proper house. The fact that properties are viewed as investments rather than just something you need in order to get by (like a car, clothes, a computer, etc) is part of the reason why the price of property is so high.

I realise that this is a fairly complex issue, but my theory is that if all property investors were simultaneously to decide "screw it, maintaining all these properties is for schmucks, once this tenant moves I'm going to sell and invest in <something else> instead." - then gradually you'd see property prices heading towards a place where they'd be far more affordable to those who want them.

You are wrong. There are not enough residential property investors in South Africa to affect house prices. This is a problem in the UK but not here

The challenge will come when you have someone who signs your lease, then later changes their mind and wants something which is mandated by the CPA but is against your lease. The contract (or at least those terms) would be legally un-enforceable then, and you may end up with a challenge like the poor OP has in this thread:

As I said before, I only let my places to high-quality tenants. But if one should suddenly drop in status and challenge the contract, that person will have trouble renting a new place because I will tell future landlords who call me for a reference that he/she is a troublemaker who should not be trusted with their property

 

[newby_investor]

You are wrong. There are not enough residential property investors in South Africa to affect house prices. This is a problem in the UK but not here

South Africa is a lot of microcosms though. The fairly large dynamic range of house prices I think is evidence of this. I know a significant portion of some suburbs here in Cape Town are owned by a comparatively small number of "investors" who are effectively slumlords, and the remaining few properties in that area demand top dollar for some reason.

I am willing to admit that I'm wrong if I see some evidence to the contrary, but some guy saying "you are wrong" is unlikely to persuade me.

As I said before, I only let my places to high-quality tenants. But if one should suddenly drop in status and challenge the contract, that person will have trouble renting a new place because I will tell future landlords who call me for a reference that he/she is a troublemaker who should not be trusted with their property

So sure, you could cause trouble for them down the road, but that doesn't solve the immediate problem that you might have of someone challenging the contract. Legally you would probably just have to suck it up.

And if a future prospective landlord should phone you up, and you label the tenant a troublemaker, surely the next question is "why, what did they do to you?" They might not care about the same things that you do. I mean unless you just lie to make the problem sound worse than it actually was. I don't think I need to comment on whether that's a good or a bad thing.

If your system works, then it works, that's fine. You agree with your tenants to certain conditions, everyone plays their part, that's fine. Hopefully the above situation that I described remains academic, and you never run into it.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

With no disrespect intended, my (admittedly amateur) analysis of the economy is that "people like you" are part of the reason that young people need to come up with huge amounts in order to buy a proper house. The fact that properties are viewed as investments rather than just something you need in order to get by (like a car, clothes, a computer, etc) is part of the reason why the price of property is so high.

I realise that this is a fairly complex issue, but my theory is that if all property investors were simultaneously to decide "screw it, maintaining all these properties is for schmucks, once this tenant moves I'm going to sell and invest in <something else> instead." - then gradually you'd see supply and demand driving property prices towards a place where they'd be far more affordable to those who want them.

There is plenty low cost housing if you need something "in order to get by"
But let me guess, you want a Rolls Royce for cheap "to get by"

 

[newby_investor]

There is plenty low cost housing if you need something "in order to get by"
But let me guess, you want a Rolls Royce for cheap "to get by"

That is not what I said at all. You're deliberately misinterpreting me.

You can have nice things if you want. They can even be expensive. But if you want to supercharge the price, then you need to have a small portion of the population with a bit more money buy up much more of it than what they can use themselves, then rent it to the other folk who don't have the same access to capital. That way, when someone wants to buy one for their own use rather than renting from someone else, there's a smaller pool of supply and the prices are higher than what they would be otherwise.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

That is not what I said at all. You're deliberately misinterpreting me.

You can have nice things if you want. They can even be expensive. But if you want to supercharge the price, then you need to have a small portion of the population with a bit more money buy up much more of it than what they can use themselves, then rent it to the other folk who don't have the same access to capital. That way, when someone wants to buy one for their own use rather than renting from someone else, there's a smaller pool of supply and the prices are higher than what they would be otherwise.

Listen, you know that a house is build with bricks and cement(ok most of them)? So if the supply is so low, then go build yourself one for cheap cheap.
If house prices was artificially inflated like you suggest. then everyone would just build it for much cheaper. Prices is high because of material and labor cost that is high.
To discuss why prices are so high(everything from food to bricks) will be a political discussion.

 

[beefymoocow]

Depending on the situation I guess it’s subjective.

When a tenant breaks and shatter a shower door. Do you pay for just the shower door or the replacement of the whole shower. If the door is unique. You probably can get a custom cut glass but It will never really be the same.

 

[zerocool2009]

Depending on the situation I guess it’s subjective.

When a tenant breaks and shatter a shower door. Do you pay for just the shower door or the replacement of the whole shower. If the door is unique. You probably can get a custom cut glass but It will never really be the same.

You claim from insurance!

 

[PoppieChoffel]

For OP, small claims court is actually a viable option, I did this years back with a landlord who refused to refund deposit for a BS reason (I'm not getting into it here). If it's only the R9k you need to get back, that'll work for you (small claims court only handles claims up to R15000).

 

[newby_investor]

Listen, you know that a house is build with bricks and cement(ok most of them)? So if the supply is so low, then go build yourself one for cheap cheap.
If house prices was artificially inflated like you suggest. then everyone would just build it for much cheaper. Prices is high because of material and labor cost that is high.
To discuss why prices are so high(everything from food to bricks) will be a political discussion.

My house in a scummy area valued at R1.5M would cost exactly the same to build as a house closer to the city which could easily be sold for triple the price. The location doesn't factor into how expensive it costs to build. The house in the fancier neighbourhood might even be cheaper to build because the distance to the industrial area is also a lot shorter, so the materials wouldn't have very far to be transported. So that argument doesn't hold much water.

Sure, cost of building houses is a factor, but it's far from the only one. Doesn't matter how cheap it is to build, if the city won't zone land as residential, you can't build.

House prices are inflated. Fact. Go and check historical house price growth vs CPI and wage growth and you'll see that property is inflated. And yeah, I agree, it is a political discussion. It's a complex subject, and I pointed out that the buy-to-let segment of the market is a contributing factor, rather than an alleviating factor as another poster suggested. But you're reading stuff into what I'm saying that is certainly not there.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

My house in a scummy area valued at R1.5M would cost exactly the same to build as a house closer to the city which could easily be sold for triple the price. The location doesn't factor into how expensive it costs to build. The house in the fancier neighbourhood might even be cheaper to build because the distance to the industrial area is also a lot shorter, so the materials wouldn't have very far to be transported. So that argument doesn't hold much water.

Sure, cost of building houses is a factor, but it's far from the only one. Doesn't matter how cheap it is to build, if the city won't zone land as residential, you can't build.

House prices are inflated. Fact. Go and check historical house price growth vs CPI and wage growth and you'll see that property is inflated. And yeah, I agree, it is a political discussion. It's a complex subject, and I pointed out that the buy-to-let segment of the market is a contributing factor, rather than an alleviating factor as another poster suggested. But you're reading stuff into what I'm saying that is certainly not there.

Well not to burst your bubble or to read something you did not say, but a stand in a small rundown town can cost you 30k and a stand in a fancy estate can cost you a few million, before you even go buy your bricks. So that argument hold much water. You want to live in the fancy area but don't want to pay. The high prices in the better areas is not because of people renting out property but because people want to stay and pay in that area. Do you think if prices was low in the "fancy" area and every second low life move there, it will still be a fancy area?

 

[newby_investor]

You want to live in the fancy area but don't want to pay.

There you go again. Assuming that I meant things that I did not say.

Honestly I'm tired of you now and I'm not going to bother responding to your other points. This has already taken the thread way off topic.

 

[competentblob]

You are wrong. There are not enough residential property investors in South Africa to affect house prices. This is a problem in the UK but not here

As I said before, I only let my places to high-quality tenants. But if one should suddenly drop in status and challenge the contract, that person will have trouble renting a new place because I will tell future landlords who call me for a reference that he/she is a troublemaker who should not be trusted with their property

You need to get over yourself and this imaginary power you think you wield. My previous landlord tried to pull that **** with me, threatening he wouldn't give me a reference. Guess what? I didn't need one. and he's emigrated since, so even if I'd obtained one it would be worthless now. Only narcissistic douchebags like you think your opinion is going to matter so much.

Tenant's duty to power-wash outside walls, LOL gtfo go f yourself with your doublevelvet horse manure

 

[competentblob]

I know its not much, but the deposit needs to be saved in an interest bearing account. Maybe ask her about that too

How should a tenant's deposit be handled?

Both landlord and tenant rights, according to the law, on how a tenant deposit should be handled.

www.privateproperty.co.za

OP needs to do the maths here and claim what's theirs, if she's claimed her 9k then she's claimed her 9k. She can't suddenly add in 3 years of interest on 9k

 

[Gnome]

I own an apartment I live in, in Cape Town and another I rent out in. I've also rented before I bought.
I've been both sides of the line, I find some of these "home owners" here to be ludicrous. The same type I had to rent from.

You have some kind of misguided idea that a house is a diamond that forever gives wealth.
Do you drive a car and expect it to last forever too?

Paint looks old after a few years. Argue all you want because you are blind or don't have any sense of style or taste but that is the reality.
Next up, things wear out and that is expected because a house is something that breaks down over time.

My GF works in the building industry. The life time of a domestic property is between 50-100 years. That is the reality. You can argue all you want but that is the point at which the pipes will need replacing, wires will have degraded, ground movement cracked and damaged parts of the building, etc. And that is just the structural parts. Most of you probably bought cheap properties too so you'll have plastic or galvanized pipe instead of copper and so on, so your building's life is even less. Geysers, paint, interior like taps, especially with a family, aren't rated for beyond 5 years many things less.

If you can't accept these facts, you need to sell your property and invest in something else.
Tangible assets have very limited lifetimes. Properties have longer lifetimes but it is still relatively limited. You don't get pure profit from it. If someone told you that, you were misled or don't understand investments

Good on the people here that went to court for being told to pay for paint.

Lastly the law clearly states you need to provide the tenant with your quotes and then provide them the opportunity to repair it themselves.
Do you guys bother to do that?
These are the typical landlord that argue when they need to fix things and then try keep the deposit after the fact.

I hire a company to take a full inventory, they take pictures of every millimeter and make a note of every single little ding.
Then we do the same when the person moves out.
But this idea that you do these half assed inventories then claims things after the fact is total BS.

 

[RonSwanson]

Well not to burst your bubble or to read something you did not say, but a stand in a small rundown town can cost you 30k and a stand in a fancy estate can cost you a few million, before you even go buy your bricks. So that argument hold much water. You want to live in the fancy area but don't want to pay. The high prices in the better areas is not because of people renting out property but because people want to stay and pay in that area. Do you think if prices was low in the "fancy" area and every second low life move there, it will still be a fancy area?

Some tenants deserve high-gloss enamel painted walls and Ozite carpet tiles.

 

[richjdavies]

Some tenants deserve high-gloss enamel painted walls and Ozite carpet tiles.

Some properties do too! And they attract that kind of tenant.
You cant polish a turd, and you can put lipstick on a pig but only idiots will fall for it.
If I was a landlord it would be "no smokers" from the get go. Number of times I've walked into a place to rent it, and basically walked right out because it stinks of smoke.

Back to the topic. So, is there an equivalent of blacklisting a landlord for not paying back deposits, not maintaining a place, not paying the right level of interest on deposit...
Or maybe a hello-Peter for landlords

 

[zerocool2009]

Some properties do too! And they attract that kind of tenant.
You cant polish a turd, and you can put lipstick on a pig but only idiots will fall for it.
If I was a landlord it would be "no smokers" from the get go. Number of times I've walked into a place to rent it, and basically walked right out because it stinks of smoke.

Back to the topic. So, is there an equivalent of blacklisting a landlord for not paying back deposits, not maintaining a place, not paying the right level of interest on deposit...
Or maybe a hello-Peter for landlords

Small claims court is your best option