Landmark cellphone bill passed

[Sneeky]

http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-1786_2173745

 

[Leitmotif]

Stupid, stupid, stupid legislation...

 

[stoke]

YEA! I get to go register my Pay-As-You go thingy.
FICA2 has commenced.

Please note, a cell phone is a trackable device.
Governmint will know my every move.

/me swaps mine wif me domestic's to confusors thems.

 

[bwana]

So if I decline to update my contact details with my SP, they'll have to cancel my contract?

 

[stoke]

Nice Bwana. Loophole.com!
(The phone you have will belong to you in part, you can give it back to them and they will have to pay you for the part that belongs to you)

 

[Leitmotif]

That benefit will probably be outweighed by someone's bright idea of introducing a fine in order for people not to 'abuse' the legislation. In other news, no government ever got power that it didn't abuse.

 

[Shake&Bake]

Well here we go

Do we as the public ever have a say in such matters?
Don't they give us the forum to give our input on such matters?

I can just see tourists getting off a 18 hour flight, getting through customs and baggage claims and then having to queue to have their phones registered. And if e-natis is anything to go by - getting back on the plane for a return flight would save them time and money.....

 

[Pilgrim]

And the really stupid thing is that people that use their phones for criminal activities will just register with false details...

WTF?!?!?!?

 

[eltherza]

Our gov can't even ensure proper ID books let alone stop forged ID books. If the person is "national threat" i doubt they'll let a cellphone company know any important info about themselves.

What a waste of time, money and a way to annoy tourists.

 

[rwenzori]

Absolutely unable to be implemented. Let's do cigarette-box calculations:

Between them Vodacom and MTN must have at least 40million sims in SA.
40,000,000 / 365 days = 109,589 phones per DAY to be registered = about 55,000 per network per day including holidays and Xmas.

 

[kris860911]

Now this is a stellar idea. Forget all my ramblings about getting our DSL problem sorted out Government. Put all your energy into this cellphone thing. Jackasses

 

[mancombseepgood]

I'm trying to fathom the remarks here. Why should criminals be allowed anonymity on the cell phone networks? They have the most efficient comms device at their disposal to carry out crime... not to mention that the cell phone theft racket is pretty rife. Since we must start somewhere, I would be interested in opening the debate on the alternatives - what is a better way to crack down on criminals using cell phones / cell phone theft? Have we become so paranoid that we believe gvt is interested in our every move? On the one hand we argue that they don't have the resources to manage this thing, on the other, we claim that they have an interest and the resources to track individuals using it. What do you think?

In India, every cell phone + sim card reseller has to get a photo id and physical address (i.e. id / passport) of the purchaser - this has to be with the cell phone SP within 48 hours or they cut you off. Their population is pretty high compared to ours. They have recognised the potential of the cell network to be used to carry out terrorism and criminal acts and it boils down to .... "You want to use it, you do so like every other subscriber - no anonymity - you don't want that, then don't use it."

Maybe we can debate the real harm this could cause law abiding citizens and see if they outweigh the positive aspects of fighting crime.

 

[devnull]

pointless

this is the problem its not going to reduce crime and you will still be anonymous if you want to be. concider fica, i can walk into a bank with a lease agreement signed between me and myself and that is a valid proof of residence. i would like to see you find some usefull form of proof of residence for shack 12 section 4 umlazi. let alone as mentioned above sa id documents are a joke, you can buy one with any name and any picture for a low value. there are no alternatives. either you have a cell phone network which everyone can use or you dont. making good people register to use it (or issuing a licence or whatever) is not going to make one bit of difference to crime, but it will create a major pain in the arse for the rest of us.

 

[mancombseepgood]

this is the problem its not going to reduce crime and you will still be anonymous if you want to be. concider fica, i can walk into a bank with a lease agreement signed between me and myself and that is a valid proof of residence. i would like to see you find some usefull form of proof of residence for shack 12 section 4 umlazi. let alone as mentioned above sa id documents are a joke, you can buy one with any name and any picture for a low value. there are no alternatives. either you have a cell phone network which everyone can use or you dont. making good people register to use it (or issuing a licence or whatever) is not going to make one bit of difference to crime, but it will create a major pain in the arse for the rest of us.

Point 1: Not all criminals live in shack 12 section 4 Umlazi, so we can discount that
Point 2: Not every criminal has an illegal ID document - in fact this exersice can assist with clamping down on illegal ID documents.
Point 3: Major pain in the poepall is all relative - if it prevents some crime and helps clamp down on others, that is a good thing, and I believe as whinging south africans, it's high time we put our money where our mouth is to do our bit for crime prevention. We have become lazy whingers - don't even want to walk into a bank these days (thinking back on the days that I had to pay all my accounts manually once a month) - and think it's everyone else's job to prevent crime.

No, it won't solve every cell phone related crime, but it's going to help help to some degree - and can even be used to cross pollinate other crime prevention efforts. Consider that someone purchases a cell phone with an illegal ID / passport. The number is now in the database twice with two different names / addresses / pictures. You now have the opportunity to trace the phone owner - even if he / she purchased the phone elsewhere.

 

[bwana]

Maybe the money could be better spend making sure first that every South African has a physical address before making it a requirement for owning a cellphone.

 

[mancombseepgood]

Maybe the money could be better spend making sure first that every South African has a physical address before making it a requirement for owning a cellphone.

Lol - I agree - they have failed dismally on that part, but do you have an idea what kind of money is involved there? There is not enough money in the hands of the government to do this in the first place - they knew this full well when using houses as a selling point for voting.

Solving crime certainly does go down to the root causes - for sure, but don't neglect what you can do simply because you are unable to meet the need in other areas.

 

[CathJ]

Point 1: Not all criminals live in shack 12 section 4 Umlazi, so we can discount that

No, you can't discount that because it's a weak link. Once you open a gap for someone without a fixed, addressable address*, criminals can make use of that gap. If you can't provide proof of address, all you have to do is sign an affidavit stating your address and swearing that it is your real address. A criminal, by definition, is not going to care about breaking the law, and so won't have a problem swearing to a fake address.


*you know what I mean

 

[Malasius]

And the really stupid thing is that people that use their phones for criminal activities will just register with false details...

WTF?!?!?!?

Exactly, these laws only effect the law abiding citizens as usual......

 

[devnull]

Point 1: Not all criminals live in shack 12 section 4 Umlazi, so we can discount that
Point 2: Not every criminal has an illegal ID document - in fact this exersice can assist with clamping down on illegal ID documents.
Point 3: Major pain in the poepall is all relative - if it prevents some crime and helps clamp down on others, that is a good thing, and I believe as whinging south africans, it's high time we put our money where our mouth is to do our bit for crime prevention. We have become lazy whingers - don't even want to walk into a bank these days (thinking back on the days that I had to pay all my accounts manually once a month) - and think it's everyone else's job to prevent crime.

No, it won't solve every cell phone related crime, but it's going to help help to some degree - and can even be used to cross pollinate other crime prevention efforts. Consider that someone purchases a cell phone with an illegal ID / passport. The number is now in the database twice with two different names / addresses / pictures. You now have the opportunity to trace the phone owner - even if he / she purchased the phone elsewhere.

1: no you cant discount that because a criminal can claim to live in a shack in a township which cannot possibly be traced, wether he does or doesnt actually live there. and what about people that do live in townships? will they be denied cell phones because they cant prove thier address?
2: any criminal now wanting to do crime will go get a fake id if they dont have one already, i dont see how this process will flush out the fake ids?

even if this was an overwhelming success and every criminal in south africa could now be caught, do the police, courts and jail system have the capacity to cope? i just cant believe that the miniscule effectiveness something like this will achieve can justify the costs. more likely the majority of the poor people in sa will be denied access and they will riot until this useless legislation is reversed or it will just largely be ignored anyway.

 

[rwenzori]

let alone as mentioned above sa id documents are a joke, you can buy one with any name and any picture for a low value.

While you are correct in what you say, you need to get a "proper" fake ID issued by Home Affairs if you don't want to be too risky. Many forged IDs are seriously easy to spot if you know what to look for, and the bit a shop gives you about "just going to the back to make a copy" also often involves putting it under a UV light which shows up the most common fiddles. Shops will typically then have a policy of calling the cops. So be careful! LOL!