Law vs Acturial Science - The Career Dual

[SineM]

Hi Everybody,

I just wanted some of your opinions on both these careers. I'm doing my matric year now and I've been provisionally accepted for the LLB and waitlisted for the BEcoSci majoring in Actuarial Science at Wits and some information on both courses would be quite helpful as I trust some of you would be quite knowledgeable in this regard.

Are there also any other alternatives (Not the Bsc) in terms of other courses at other universities that would allow me to qualify as an actuary and complete the qualifying exams?

Just any other information that you have would be very helpful in helping me decide which career path I should endeavour to take.

 

[Bar0n]

Actuarial Science is a crapload of work. Whether you can cope intellectually is completely different to whether you can handle the insane workload of it. You need to be able to do both. Also keep in mind that getting your degree does NOT make you an actuary. You have about 20 international exams left before you actually earn the title of actuary.

With regards to your other question, I think something like B.Sc. Risk Analysis could possibly allow you to qualify for the international exams.

 

[Diego Tristan]

Don't go law route my friend, there are boatloads of 'em who can't get jobs. My friend is gonna do his masters coz jobs are too scarce, hopefully it will differentiate him enough to attract some employers.

Actuarial is no doubt a better route with regards to employability. But actuarial science is on steroids when compared to law so if you don't plan to stay up till 3am doing proofs forget about it. Getting into honours is also a nightmare, you need a certain number of exemptions. My friend who is quite intelligent is doing her 5th year of undergrad this year, and its a 3 year degree... go figure. But if you are willing to work hard, intellect aside, you'll beat any course!

Heyneke Meyer said: hard work will always trump talent (referring to Morné Steyn).

 

[HavocXphere]

Actuarial is a vicious course of note. Its an uphill battle even the people who smoked Matric (incl add maths). That crowd also seems to be prone to insomnia & depression. So think carefully whether you're ready for ~7 years of misery.

Despite all of the above - its a very good choice. If I had to make the uni choice again I'd seriously consider it.

LLB - personally I wouldn't unless you're really determined to practice law.

I think something like B.Sc. Risk Analysis could possibly allow you to qualify for the international exams.

I highly doubt that.

 

[saturnz]

go the actuary route, if you fail you can fall back on the other stuff

I completed three degrees in economics, I am retiring next year then going back to study- focusing on mathematical statistics and maths and then I'm going to do those exams Bar0n refers to. If I fail I will fall back on a Ph.D in Economics with something related to game theory.

Basically there is no ex ante right or wrong decision, one just has to look at the typical profile of students in an MBA degrees, CA conversion and accelerated Act Sci conversion streams- most of them come from totally different backgrounds and decided upon something else mid way through the career or studies.

If you want to make a huge amount of money, go the actuarial route, if you want to be bombarded by stupidity on a daily basis, go the legal route.

 

[Bar0n]

Actuarial is a vicious course of note. Its an uphill battle even the people who smoked Matric (incl add maths). That crowd also seems to be prone to insomnia & depression. So think carefully whether you're ready for ~7 years of misery.

Despite all of the above - its a very good choice. If I had to make the uni choice again I'd seriously consider it.

LLB - personally I wouldn't unless you're really determined to practice law.


I highly doubt that.

At Kovsies, B.Sc. Risk Analysis students do the majority of subjects that Actuarial Science do, except some of the actuarial theory subjects. You can easily catch up on these and you'll have to study it again anyway when you write the actual exams. I can double check the yearbook to make sure though.

Also, you're looking at a 3 year degree, and about 10 more years of exams. If you can do 2 incredibly difficult exams a year and work full-time at the same time.

 

[Bar0n]

At Kovsies, B.Sc. Risk Analysis students do the majority of subjects that Actuarial Science do, except some of the actuarial theory subjects. You can easily catch up on these and you'll have to study it again anyway when you write the actual exams. I can double check the yearbook to make sure though.

Also, you're looking at a 3 year degree, and about 10 more years of exams. If you can do 2 incredibly difficult exams a year and work full-time at the same time.

Checked the yearbook, here are the differences:

Year 1:
Risk Analysis students do not take "Financial Management and Reporting" (If you're not in the top 2-3 students in your class, you need to rewrite the international examination anyway.)
Risk Analysis students do not take "Introduction to Actuarial Science" (bit of theory, some basic calculations, but it's not a major part of the degree)
Risk Analysis students take mainstream programming, not the easier course like Actuarial Science students

Year 2:
Both courses have 2 semesters of "Actuarial Science", which are basically the CT1-8 courses, or parts thereof.
Actuarial Science students take another year of economics
Risk analysis students take another year of mainstream programming/comp sci

Year 3:
Both courses take the same Math Stats subjects.
Actuarial science students take 5 actuarial science subjects.
Risk analysis students take 3 actuarial science subjects, and need to either take 3rd year pure math or financial economics.

The "actuarial science" subjects are normally CT1-8 which you can do externally anyway.

 

[Cassady]

The only time people need lawyers, is when they have problems. It is a highly combative environment, where all you can sell is your time. And there are only so many hours in a day. So ask yourself: what needs to give?...

Having said that - that's assuming you end up in practice. There are few degrees out there that have as much potential to change the way you think, and the way you interact with the world around you, as does law. But you appear to be career-specific driven.

I would struggle to recommend legal practice as a career. I plan on talking my kids out of going that way, as their primary degree.

Good luck.

 

[Riot2]

I recently qualified as an actuary (that is all the board exams, not just the degree itself).

If you have questions I will be more than happy to help answer them - pm me for my email address.

While other courses may have subjects that over lap with the actuarial science courses they may not count for exemption from the board exam (thats how it worked at tuks anyway). So you might take a subject and do very well in it (and therefore technically qualify for an exemption) but if you are not registered for the actuarial science program you are not eligible for the exemption. I have no idea if that applies at Wits but I think it might as it could be a requirement of the actuarial society itself.


There is a TON of information on the society page: http://www.actuarialsociety.org.za/ . It is worthwhile reading it all in detail as it may determine the rest of your life.

 

[SineM]

Thank you so much for the information guys... I guess the old adage "ask and you shall receive" is pertinent here!

 

[saturnz]

Having said that - that's assuming you end up in practice. There are few degrees out there that have as much potential to change the way you think, and the way you interact with the world around you, as does law.
Good luck.

I agree, good lawyers and advocates have good diplomatic skills which really does come in handy in the real world where conflict and conflict resolution take up basically most of your time.

But if you are looking for an education as opposed to mere training for a job, I think economics is definitely something to consider. There are philosophical aspects to economics (different schools of thought, neo classical, keynesian, moneterists etc) as well strong scientific aspects dealt with in game theory and statistical modelling.

It also teaches you basic decision making which really does come in handy in life.

 

[Bar0n]

I recently qualified as an actuary (that is all the board exams, not just the degree itself).

Just curious, how many exams did you write and how long did it take you to finish all of them? (Not including your 3 year degree)

 

[proxilin]

I may be wrong, but what I've heard is that law limits you to the country you studied it in. You will be qualified as a lawyer in SA, but if you decide to move to the UK for example, you will need to redo things. I'm not sure what happens if you go into corporate law though, maybe that's more transferable.

Actuarial Science you can take overseas. I think it also gives you more choices afterwards of what to do and what industries you work in. Finding work will definitely be easier.

I also know some universities give you the option to do a 2/3 year LLB as a follow up to an unrelated first degree. So if you do Actuarial Science, and then decide you still want to go the law route, you can do that. It'll take long but I think noone will complain with your qualifications then!

 

[Cassady]

I may be wrong, but what I've heard is that law limits you to the country you studied it in. You will be qualified as a lawyer in SA, but if you decide to move to the UK for example, you will need to redo things. I'm not sure what happens if you go into corporate law though, maybe that's more transferable.

Actuarial Science you can take overseas. I think it also gives you more choices afterwards of what to do and what industries you work in. Finding work will definitely be easier.

I also know some universities give you the option to do a 2/3 year LLB as a follow up to an unrelated first degree. So if you do Actuarial Science, and then decide you still want to go the law route, you can do that. It'll take long but I think noone will complain with your qualifications then!

All true. You would need to do a conversion of sorts - which is not cheap - but is done by many. The commercial side - if you get into one of the big firms, they have increasingly become part of international "firms". So someone from the JHB office can spend a few years at the same office in London etc., whilst working on the same International Company's matters, for instance.

Actuarial Science in that regard - as with most commerce degrees, is far more readily transferable.

 

[Rkootknir]

Just curious, how many exams did you write and how long did it take you to finish all of them? (Not including your 3 year degree)

In my case, I wrote 9 exams after university (there are around 15 but I got exemption from 6 of them due to marks at university). However, I rewrote some of the exams after university many times. Finished varsity in 2003, but only qualified recently at age 32. There are some guys who are really good at writing the exams and so qualify much earlier - average at qualification is 28. In total it took me 13 years - 4 at university (incl honours) and 9 afterwards.

 

[saturnz]

nine is also a figure I recall seeing when I had a look at the UCT prospectus for Bbusci a few years ago

 

[bionic_twiglet]

AcSci: Currently it takes about 18 exams altogether, of which universities can exempt you from up to 10 if you pass your exams with a sufficiently high mark (UCT offers the max as far as I know), although 3 are softer courses (communication, business awareness and modeling).

Take my advice and only pursue AS if you know that's what you want to do (understand, manage, model and communicate risk and uncertainty in a financial context). Most work is in insurance, pension fund fields and more recently banking (esp credit risk and pricing).

Too many people think it's a shortcut to riches and get to 3rd/4th year and wonder what the hell they are doing.

 

[saturnz]

agreed, if you want to just make money, become a CA, no CA loves accounting, but they all love money.

 

[Bar0n]

(there are around 15 but I got exemption from 6 of them due to marks at university)

Just so the OP knows, you have to apply for exemption, you don't automatically get it. If your entire class gets 90%, you don't get exempted. And even if you finish at the top of your class, the matter of your exemption still rests with the actuarial institute.

Correct me if I got anything wrong.

 

[Bar0n]

Too many people think it's a shortcut to riches and get to 3rd/4th year and wonder what the hell they are doing.

This. It really is a tough course. Consider all your options very carefully. Is there no third option for you (@ OP)?