Legalwise - Are they worth it?

[w1z4rd]

I was wondering if it is worthwhile getting a service like legalwise? Up until now I have been using private specialized advocates and lawyers and they cost an arm and a leg. These have been for pretty small reasons. I am a little worried about the day someone with a massive amount of money tries to abuse the legal system against me or my business interests. Those cases easily get to the hundreds of thousands pretty fast.

Is it worthwhile signing up with a company like Legalwise? Are they any good? R98 a month for over 100k cover seems good. Are there other similar services that you would rather recommend?

 

[Picard]

I was wondering if it is worthwhile getting a service like legalwise? Up until now I have been using private specialized advocates and lawyers and they cost an arm and a leg. These have been for pretty small reasons. I am a little worried about the day someone with a massive amount of money tries to abuse the legal system against me or my business interests. Those cases easily get to the hundreds of thousands pretty fast.

Is it worthwhile signing up with a company like Legalwise? Are they any good? R98 a month for over 100k cover seems good. Are there other similar services that you would rather recommend?

For just R100 a month I would consider them. I would even do so if they charged R200.

But if they charged R300 ... **** them.

 

[Hosehead]

Think about costs. 100K is really nothing in Legal costing. Oscars bail hearing was supposed to have been upwards of 500K.
The average lawyer charges no less than 1000K (usually much more) per hour and Advocates can easily coin R7000 per hour. So a whole day in High Court will see you upwards of R50K and how long is the average trial?
I've seen contested divorces run in excess of R500,000 and the parties lost everything. Their cars, their home etc.

I've seen those Legalwise stickers and often wondered so I googled and their "Best" product is platinium and for R150 PM you get R150K in coverage per claim or insured matter with three month exclusion periods on something or other. Actually I can't make heads or tails of it but knowing some legal costs I'd probably not use them myself

 

[pgs]

Think about costs. 100K is really nothing in Legal costing. Oscars bail hearing was supposed to have been upwards of 500K.
The average lawyer charges no less than 1000K (usually much more) per hour and Advocates can easily coin R7000 per hour. So a whole day in High Court will see you upwards of R50K and how long is the average trial?
I've seen contested divorces run in excess of R500,000 and the parties lost everything. Their cars, their home etc.

I've seen those Legalwise stickers and often wondered so I googled and their "Best" product is platinium and for R150 PM you get R150K in coverage per claim or insured matter with three month exclusion periods on something or other. Actually I can't make heads or tails of it but knowing some legal costs I'd probably not use them myself

I have been a member for about 40 years ...... When I enquired I asked "What DON"T you cover?? Divorce, Maintenance, Traffic, AND any litigation that YOU the member start, (Me huh?) the public prosecutor will help you there. So yes I think it is a good thing like car insurance is a good thing. Plow into a Ferrari and disagree, although I would say it is closer to balance of third party fire and theft. Prove me wrong I would appreciate it .......... my knowledge and experience happened 40 years ago and I am still a member.

 

[Picard]

I have been a member for about 40 years ...... When I enquired I asked "What DON"T you cover?? Divorce, Maintenance, Traffic, AND any litigation that YOU the member start, (Me huh?) the public prosecutor will help you there. So yes I think it is a good thing like car insurance is a good thing. Plow into a Ferrari and disagree, although I would say it is closer to balance of third party fire and theft. Prove me wrong I would appreciate it .......... my knowledge and experience happened 40 years ago and I am still a member.

I'm a bit thick ... stupid actually ... would you mind explaining it a bit better?

It seems you are left to your own devices in the end ..

 

[bwana]

Think about costs. 100K is really nothing in Legal costing. Oscars bail hearing was supposed to have been upwards of 500K.
The average lawyer charges no less than 1000K (usually much more) per hour and Advocates can easily coin R7000 per hour. So a whole day in High Court will see you upwards of R50K and how long is the average trial?
I've seen contested divorces run in excess of R500,000 and the parties lost everything. Their cars, their home etc.

A million rand and up per hour? That seems a little high even to me.

 

[ToxicBunny]

A million rand and up per hour? That seems a little high even to me.

You're a photographer... lawyers just charge more than you do

 

[bwana]

You're a photographer... lawyers just charge more than you do

I'm a freelance sports photographer - everyone charges more than I do!

 

[ToxicBunny]

I'm a freelance sports photographer - everyone charges more than I do!

...

Hell everyone charges more than I do as well... but I could never bring myself to be a lawyer. (oddly enough, most lawyers don't earn very well, but their companies do)

 

[OMB]

I used to belong to Legalwise, but after 2 attempts at using them for legal advice and getting no satisfaction I cancelled my contract

 

[Redeemed]

How's Scorpion?

 

[ponder]

Think about costs. 100K is really nothing in Legal costing. Oscars bail hearing was supposed to have been upwards of 500K.
The average lawyer charges no less than 1000K (usually much more) per hour and Advocates can easily coin R7000 per hour. So a whole day in High Court will see you upwards of R50K and how long is the average trial?

You are forgetting about court costs, it's not free, it's frigging expensive. Mate spent a few hours in hight court a few months back and between the lawyer, advocate & court costs you could support a few families for a year. He had a solid case though and won with costs, then his lawyer robbed him

 

[Picard]

...

Hell everyone charges more than I do as well... but I could never bring myself to be a lawyer. (oddly enough, most lawyers don't earn very well, but their companies do)

Bahahahahahaha!!!

Ghfmh ... maybe ... but this depends on what your definition is of "earn well".

 

[HavocXphere]

If I had faith in their legal ability I'd do it.

Advocates can easily coin R7000 per hour.

In the high court perhaps. The generally billing level is more in the 2k-3k range rather than 7k. The top law firms don't bill by the hour anyway. They bill by the minute and/or action. And the lawyer doesn't see those insane amount - they have wild overheads - most large professional firms are open 24/7 365 (to staff) which isn't exactly cheap. And then they have a great deal of supporting staff (research, admin, IT etc). All of those don't get billed to the client - its built into the professionals fees.

 

[Hosehead]

Most disputes end up where lawyers aren't qualified to tread: In the High Courts, and this is the playground of the Advocates who the lawyers have to hire and pay in advance from your money. (Think of them as your lawyers lawyer) The beauty of the system is that you as a member of the Public can represent yourself in High court (if you don't quite qualify for legal aid) and I've actually done it and as long as you do your homework, you can represent yourself with out too much difficulty. The clerks don't like it, the Lawyers don't like it (because they -not you- select the advocate they want to work with and you' will never be able to consult privately with your advocate, never mind you pay, but your lawyer will be everywhere and relays the communications.) So as a general rule you don't get to pick which advocate you want to work with- so you have no idea what fee schedules are so you cannot comparison shop,
and of course the advocates don't like self representation as they are out of work and the Justices actually don't mind at all. So don't let anybody put you off.
Also if you are unhappy with legal fees demanded- demand Taxation of the bill of costs. That word will have many lawyers quivering in their boots... but you need a good costs consultant but that is for another thread another time.

 

[Hosehead]

If I had faith in their legal ability I'd do it.


In the high court perhaps. The generally billing level is more in the 2k-3k range rather than 7k. The top law firms don't bill by the hour anyway. They bill by the minute and/or action. And the lawyer doesn't see those insane amount - they have wild overheads - most large professional firms are open 24/7 365 (to staff) which isn't exactly cheap. And then they have a great deal of supporting staff (research, admin, IT etc). All of those don't get billed to the client - its built into the professionals fees.

My experience with the big legal firms is that the letter of appointment you sign on behalf of your company or youself whichever the case may be is that their fees are set out in the letter from Senior partner right down to Associate (Massive difference) and these are listed sometimes as "half hourly rates" (don't ask me why) so if a partner, not a senior partner, is listed as R1300 you need to mentally figure the hourly rate of R1300x2= R2600 plus vat for any part of an hour thereof prorated obviously. Sundries etc are also listed as are any agreements regarding private tariffs (Some legal actions have fixed costs and private firms often insist you waive your rights to these and accept their private Tarriffs instead which are considerably more,)
So whe you get the invoice for the first month it's all pretty vague as in attend to taking instruction, reading, perusing, dictating, writing a letter, faxing, telephone and photocopy costs etc and a fixed amount is requested - but you have no breakdown as to who did what (an Associate or a partner?) its all vague and the real costs will only be ever known if there is a payment dispute and a taxation.

 

[HavocXphere]

Well done on representing yourself.

I wasn't aware that there is such a big diff between lawyers vs advocates - I'll pay more attention to the difference the next time I've got a bunch of this info in front of me.

Would you mind explaining the taxation of the bill of costs a bit more?

"half hourly rates"

Interesting. As I said, I've only seen minute based break downs in the law firm's internal docs - maybe they present something else to the client. I'll fish for some info the next time I'm at a law firm...

 

[bokka1]

After your LLB it takes three months to become an Advocate and two years to become an Attorney.

No difference in qualifications.

All graduates that don't get a place to do their articles as an attorney becomes advocates.

 

[Mars]

If you have any kind of business of your own legalwise won't cover it too.

Nor anything to do with property.

The list of things they won't help with is longer than the list of things they do. Legalwise is crap in a nutshell.

I have heard better things about Scorpion Legal, tho I have never used them myself.

 

[ponder]

(because they -not you- select the advocate they want to work with and you' will never be able to consult privately with your advocate, never mind you pay, but your lawyer will be everywhere and relays the communications.)

Nah, you can instruct the lawyer that he/you should only use xxxx. Mate picked his advocate for his first case and he selected him again as his advocate for a upcoming case. The rest however is correct except you will be able to consult with the advocate with the lawyer present. Money making scam of note.