Leon: ANC can't do what it wants, when it wants

DigitalSoldier

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Leon argued that Mbeki is at the centre of many of these crises "although he generally refuses directly, or actively, to engage with them".

Mbeki handpicked every director general in every government department and certainly the police commissioner and the ANC's chief whips.

"Thabo Mbeki may well be credited -- correctly -- for getting many of the economic fundamentals right; yet he also deserves a profound amount of blame for converting government into a virtual ethics-free zone," he said.


Cant agree more
 

Raithlin

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Agreed. Not that Mbeki will do anything about it. Nor will the majority of the voters (unfortunately).
 

Leitmotif

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Except that in practise they can. The *should* not be allowed to.

The state of double standards, blind support, criminal behaviour and moral outlook... I can't help but think that half of the ANC support their comrade out of guilt, and the other half (including the president) out of fear that the ANC will fragment...

Mbeki puts the health of the ANC and it's high echelon members' careers above the health of the country. This is incorrect.
 

dlk001

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Maybe we should ask ANC supporters why they VOTE for the party. Labeling them "blind" is just plane wrong.
 

Leitmotif

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It's not their hearts. They vote for 'the party that will keep the white opressor out of power'. Presumably opressors of your own race are more acceptable.

They're stuck voting for 12 years ago.
 

dlk001

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ANC voters vote with their hearts - not their heads.

How do you know all of this? Majority of ANC Voters are Black. How do you know that Black people vote for ANC without using their heads?
 

Leitmotif

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How do you know all of this? Majority of ANC Voters are Black. How do you know that Black people vote for ANC without using their heads?

What does race have to do with anything, and why are you dragging it in? Where do you see race mentioned here? If you're just trying to shut down this thread, piss off. :mad:
 

chiskop

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What does race have to do with anything, and why are you dragging it in? Where do you see race mentioned here? If you're just trying to shut down this thread, piss off. :mad:

Leitmotif said:
It's not their hearts. They vote for 'the party that will keep the white opressor out of power'.

Easy there, big guy. I think he was responding to your post.
 

duderoo

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This means nothing to the voters as many of them are not that intellectually apt to realise what the ANC is really doing. They are just voting because every 1 of their friends is....thus going with the masses.
 

doobiwan

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It's not blind loyalty, it's lack of options. If the ANC pi$$es of the SA majority who do they vote for?
Whining Tony?
Kiss A$$ Patricia?
The PAC Nutbar?
The IFP royal Militia?

The problem is lack of credible opposition. Only 22% of the population voted in the last election. We either need a new party, or better yet, the ANC needs to splits. If Zuma wants to be President, let him take his cronies and challenge the ANC in a real fight, not a butt kissing contest.
 

jontyB

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How do you know all of this? Majority of ANC Voters are Black. How do you know that Black people vote for ANC without using their heads?
Why would someone keep voting in a party that refuses to actually improve everyone's lives in accordance to their very own promises? Under ANC rule, South Africa has become a corrupt crime capital of the world. People are dying faster from AIDS and are being infected with the HIV faster than anywhere else in the world. South Africa has a distinct 1st place of most rapes of children under 6.

Surely the people cannot possibly want this? Emotionally, the majority (and this is understandable), never want to be oppressed by white rulers ever again. Nor do I. The ANC (every election this is done) promises that this will never happen as long as the vote is kept where it is. So the appeal being made is an emotional one, and the use of highly emotive language running up to and during elections is nothing more than propaganda designed to appeal on that level.

Why is it, if this is not an emotional issue but one where commonsense is applied, that the only people trying to hold the government accountable is basically the opposition and a small minority?

If you have a chance, have a gander at the friends of JZ website, and read how the emotions of the people enter the fray.
Another, more final point, is that the ANC demands of it's people to do things in accordance with the organization's alignment. A case in point: the controversial Civil Union Bill was passed in parliament recently, the ANC instructed all ANC MPs to be present and vote for the bill. It was an instruction and no one was allowed to vote otherwise.
 

duderoo

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A case in point: the controversial Civil Union Bill was passed in parliament recently, the ANC instructed all ANC MPs to be present and vote for the bill. It was an instruction and no one was allowed to vote otherwise.

Can it really be called a vote then?
 

HosstheBoss

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I feel I take a somewhat more neutral stand point when it comes to politics in SA :rolleyes: Yes; all those that moan about the ANC are correct; BUT, Leon and the DA IMO are the kind of folk that always point out problems but never offer solutions. Why should you vote for someone who only bitches and moans all the time. I really believe all politicians are nothing more than windbags, the whole lot of them can get lost

*Edit I see doobiwan has basically made the same point
 
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jontyB

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It's not blind loyalty, it's lack of options. If the ANC pi$$es of the SA majority who do they vote for?
Whining Tony?
Kiss A$$ Patricia?
The PAC Nutbar?
The IFP royal Militia?
So then you vote with your heart instead of your head? As more of these small parties start to get more seats in parliament, the more accountable the ruling party will be. So instead of voting for someone 'cos they will try and make a difference (whether they're whiny or asskissy or nutters makes little difference really) you go with the flow and give the party pissing you off even more power? Doesn't make sense to me.
The problem is lack of credible opposition. Only 22% of the population voted in the last election. We either need a new party, or better yet, the ANC needs to splits. If Zuma wants to be President, let him take his cronies and challenge the ANC in a real fight, not a butt kissing contest.
Not really. The ANC specifically formed an alliance with COSATU to get the numbers. The only way there will be true multi-party politics in this country is once the ANC/COSATU/SACP alliance is split.

We have a real problem at present,

1. The ANC enjoys the status quo, they do not have to do much bar promise COSATU the alliance is strong and will continue.
2. COSATU will not instruct its members to vote for anyone other than ANC
3. The ANC refuses accountability, and instead opts for non-transparent politicking
 
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