Lethal threat which could really hurt Vodacom, MTN profits

Paul Hjul

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so the case for the MNOs to get around the table and flesh out a future with the CTR regulations rather than litigate into stupidity ...
 

marine1

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They will find a way to profit from this, as the article said, charge for VOIP or use some way to use more data allocation on VOIP than on normal HTTP browsing etc.
 

[)roi(]

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Crap; that hasn't happened in the US; a market that is known to be both equally as prolific in its number of smartphone users, Skype users and iPhone FaceTime voice call users; a demographic we certainly don't share.

This leaves me wondering what was the origin of this hogwash?
 

marine1

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[)roi(];12205115 said:
Crap; that hasn't happened in the US; a market that is known to be both equally as prolific in its number of smartphone users, Skype users and iPhone FaceTime voice call users; a demographic we certainly don't share.

This leaves me wondering what was the origin of this hogwash?

But remember voice in the US is dirt cheap not like here where we are raped.
 

bekdik

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All cell phones connect through a cellular company (ignoring wifi). So why would the cell companies not 'manage' the ports used by whatsapp so as to make them unusable? Or worse still, invoke the penalty charges which AFAIK are still part of the T&C's of cellular contracts?
 

[)roi(]

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Ok let's for the moment forego the lack of capable smartphones; surely it's wrong to just assume that our mobile data networks, including costs easily facilitate this.

Personally I know of no one who actively uses either Skype and/or Facetime voice calls on the mobile networks; the occasional video call for sure, but active preference over voice calls, nope.
 

Paul Hjul

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But remember voice in the US is dirt cheap not like here where we are raped.

voice in the US is hardly "dirt cheap" and their data pricing is actually not particularly cheap
their operational model is markedly different to SA and the US has significantly higher pre-paid data pricing to South Africa:
http://www.androidcentral.com/us-mobile-data-prices-among-most-expensive-world

the reality is that in the US you have reasonably well priced high call volume contract products whereas in SA the unlimited calling plans are only coming down to sub 1k with CellCs latest offering (whereas in the US you've been at less than R600 a month (so essentially little more than a third of the price than here)

BUT for prepaid small calling volume products SA generally offers better value - IIRC AT&T recently broke down sub 20 USc (so less than R2) per minute - a this is a consequence of very different markets
 

Paul Hjul

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[)roi(];12205137 said:
Ok let's for the moment forego the lack of capable smartphones; surely it's wrong to just assume that our mobile data networks, including costs easily facilitate this.

Personally I know of no one who actively uses either Skype and/or Facetime voice calls on the mobile networks; the occasional video call for sure, but active preference over voice calls, nope.
Whatsapp could quickly represent an actual preference. I use Hangouts weekly for a meeting and because it is at the congestion spike time I use my Afrihost mifi I know somebody who ditched ADSL and uses skype and hangouts on Afrihost - in both instances though it is from a computing device and as a broadband service rather than as an app on a mobile phone.
 

[)roi(]

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Whatsapp could quickly represent an actual preference. I use Hangouts weekly for a meeting and because it is at the congestion spike time I use my Afrihost mifi I know somebody who ditched ADSL and uses skype and hangouts on Afrihost - in both instances though it is from a computing device and as a broadband service rather than as an app on a mobile phone.
/sarcasm on
...and on a similar note (to this article): we're all doomed, as apparently the sky is going to fall -- source: little chicken
/sarcasm off

Nothing personal, just think the timing of this smacks of another coaxed propaganda piece, a piece with no basis in fact.
 
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Paul Hjul

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[)roi(]

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I don't think that the article is coaxed propaganda but rather simply that a commentator of some shape has made a meaty and bold assertion which is being presented

I am not convinced that the threat is as great as presented but it is an additional threat - and sound reason for the MNOs to reevaluate their stance on CTRs

The origin is the former FNB CEO:
http://mybroadband.co.za/news/business/97653-time-for-telecoms-ceos-to-worry-michael-jordaan.html
Many CEOs (current and former) run in similar circles, so in as much as this article / opinion piece is not supported by any factual trends; surely on the same note I could also posit that this is paid for propaganda.

Who knows, without checking that is, he might very well have some level of active vested interest in maintaining the returns of these portfolios.
 

Paul Hjul

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not likely and I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. I think Jordaan has looked at the suits brought by MTN and Vodacom and like I have concluded that the operators are being ****ing stupid and so he has looked at the trends on uptake and has done a bit of desktop reference looking into things and discovered that with Facebook backing Whatsapp is making a play to be a mobile voice app and that with data prices having declined this could change the game.
 

entrepr

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The point is that voice is simply an application, like internet browsing, ftp, instant messaging and the like. It is not even a particularly rich application. It is crazy that operators can still get away with charging per second or minute for this one application, rather than per month or per megabyte.

But believe me the global trend must be for voice to look more and more like an application.
 

[)roi(]

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not likely and I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. I think Jordaan has looked at the suits brought by MTN and Vodacom and like I have concluded that the operators are being ****ing stupid and so he has looked at the trends on uptake and has done a bit of desktop reference looking into things and discovered that with Facebook backing Whatsapp is making a play to be a mobile voice app and that with data prices having declined this could change the game.
The timing of this stills somehow leads me to believe that these types of articles strengthen VC / MTN's possible counter arguments to strict pricing legislation i.e. volatility of the international market coupled with strict pricing restrictions could be unduly detrimental to their businesses.

Playing the political / media game is fairly common place, hence I posit the article may very well be simply a wolf in sheep's clothing.

The timing of this baseless article and the source is what concerns me.
 

[)roi(]

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The point is that voice is simply an application, like internet browsing, ftp, instant messaging and the like. It is not even a particularly rich application. It is crazy that operators can still get away with charging per second or minute for this one application, rather than per month or per megabyte.

But believe me the global trend must be for voice to look more and more like an application.

Agreed... Where I'm less than convinces is that this trend would be initiated in SA;
i.e. Why such an alarmist article when clearly this trend has not revealed itself elsewhere?

Consider for example: it far simpler to replace SMS with something like whatsapp than to tackle a latency sensitive service like voice calls.

There are naturally a number of technological challenges to overcome first (for example: opposing systems would need some type of interconnect), and that doesn't even consider the likelihood of a few patent conflicts, or even shared network revenue / service guarantee agreements (e.g. Netflix & cable Coys)

But even considering their rapid growth & FB purchase; the world by in large hasn't overnight shed SMS in favor of only Whatsapp.
 
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Dubes

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[)roi(];12205137 said:
Personally I know of no one who actively uses either Skype and/or Facetime voice calls on the mobile networks; the occasional video call for sure, but active preference over voice calls, nope.

I've considered it on numerous occasions but each time I've done the maths it just hasn't worked out cheaper. A quick test of BBM voice recently showed a couple of MB used in no time. At a ridiculous R2/MB OOB on some packages still.

Remember too that both parties would be paying for the call, something else to consider when phoning someone. I might be on wifi but they might be on their cellular data and it could cost.
 

Mr Feesh

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voice in the US is hardly "dirt cheap" and their data pricing is actually not particularly cheap
their operational model is markedly different to SA and the US has significantly higher pre-paid data pricing to South Africa:
http://www.androidcentral.com/us-mobile-data-prices-among-most-expensive-world

the reality is that in the US you have reasonably well priced high call volume contract products whereas in SA the unlimited calling plans are only coming down to sub 1k with CellCs latest offering (whereas in the US you've been at less than R600 a month (so essentially little more than a third of the price than here)

BUT for prepaid small calling volume products SA generally offers better value - IIRC AT&T recently broke down sub 20 USc (so less than R2) per minute - a this is a consequence of very different markets

AS SOME one who lived there for 6 months last year, your half wrong. You can get voice only unlimited contracts for 20$ a month. I paid $40 a month for unlimited everything, yes unlimited 3g. You just have to shop around. There data contracts are more pricey then ours tho.
 

jannievanzyl

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[)roi(];12205261 said:
Agreed... Where I'm less than convinces is that this trend would be initiated in SA;
i.e. Why such an alarmist article when clearly this trend has not revealed itself elsewhere?
Because Facebook only bought WhatsApp last week?
 

cfilorux

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The sky is falling

I have skype credit. I have not used a cent of it yet. No reason - just haven't got to it. I could get national calls for the price of a local call plus 89 cents. Actually skype sucks. These applications promise a lot, but don't quite deliver simple and reliable communications. I hope the sky-pe does not fall-pe before I spend my credit.
 
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