Linux for the masses - is it feasible?

Brian_G

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LM 19.3 is still supported till 2023 at least. MX Linux still does 32 bit distros but I just don't think they are quite there yet all things considered, lots of polishing in pulling everything together to still be done but they probably will get that done in a few years.
Sometime I'm going to have to consider some sort of change as my 32 bit Lubuntu 18.04 loses support after April this year. All Ubuntu 32 bit apparently.

Not surprised, or too worried as there's enough further basic support IMO for another couple of years.
Some. I use Lubuntu 18.04 LTS on my IBM thinkpad t43, and I very much doubt it'll change come April-2021. Support questions: as it's beyond support, and whilst I don't close vote partially supported flavors, I usually ignore them beyond a FYI:EOL reminder, but they'll get less attention as some people do ignore them. Support will cease on IRC in #lubuntu, you'll get limited (to no) support on Lubuntu's discourse, but I know UF & here, some support will continue. The 'universe' packages will not get security patches, but that's uncommon anyway so minor added security risk. – guiverc Nov 20 '20 at 23:05
Users (past 2021-April) should still get support in #ubuntu on IRC... I'm really saying support options will reduce during the final two years (of partial support). If users know what they're doing, are aware of the additional risks (which is small anyway), they can continue to use it (just as I believe I will on my t43) – guiverc Nov 20 '20 at 23:09

For anyone else interested there's still plenty of other distros continuing with 32 bit. I think I may eventually go with Debian if I can (and even if I don't still want 32 bit then, which is likely) since it's a parent and I tend to stick to older tech more than most.
 

netstrider

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Sometime I'm going to have to consider some sort of change as my 32 bit Lubuntu 18.04 loses support after April this year. All Ubuntu 32 bit apparently.

Not surprised, or too worried as there's enough further basic support IMO for another couple of years.



For anyone else interested there's still plenty of other distros continuing with 32 bit. I think I may eventually go with Debian if I can (and even if I don't still want 32 bit then, which is likely) since it's a parent and I tend to stick to older tech more than most.
Debian is brilliant. I used it exclusively for about 5-odd years during the mid-2000s.
 

DrJohnZoidberg

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To the original question I think it depends no what you plan to do on the computer. If you need to run specific desktop apps that don't have Linux counterparts then it can be quite fickle.

If you just need a computer with a web browser then it's an excellent choice. I had my mother using Fedora for years before we upgraded her laptop and it came preinstalled with Windows (and I was too lazy to have to reinstall everything again).
 

Brian_G

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To the original question I think it depends no what you plan to do on the computer. If you need to run specific desktop apps that don't have Linux counterparts then it can be quite fickle.

If you just need a computer with a web browser then it's an excellent choice. I had my mother using Fedora for years before we upgraded her laptop and it came preinstalled with Windows (and I was too lazy to have to reinstall everything again).
Thanks.
About the only thing I might still try that's serious which needs a Linux "bridge" is CorelDraw, but have heard it can be done quite easily (not sure with Lubuntu though).

And the rest - that's my main usage, other than Libre Office - I'm browsing on it at the moment with Firefox, works very well.
 

John_Phoenix

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Not talking about me in large part. The topic is mass use, like in Africa. Many can't afford anything modern. Isn't that what Ubuntu was made for?...
Nope, ubuntu was not made for ancient PCs, it was made for "not the latest and greatest". The conclusion of your line of reasoning is that no OS would ever evolve into anything past a Ti-85.

Plenty of 3rd world schools, universities and technical colleges run some form of Unix / Linux, and they seem to be running year on year, with far better reliability than any windows box could ever achieve.

Linux facilitates learning more than any other offline OS, it's used from ras-pi and micro-servers all the way up to literal supercomputers.

You had a tough time, because you chose to start on hard mode, that has nothing to do with Ubuntu or any other distro.

The fact that you chose Zorin, was probably cause you wanted it to "feel" like windows, and expected it to look like something other than what linux really is. A kernel with "possibly" a GUI wrapped around it.

Want to know what linux really is?

Try arch, or Unix? Pick up a flavour of BSD.

Learn (the hard way, or the easy way), Grow, Repeat, that is what Unix asks you to do. And in turn it will hand you the keys to every cycle of your hardware, to do as you see fit.

Windows / OSX will never come close.

There is some good advice in this thread.
 
Last edited:

Brian_G

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You had a tough time, because you chose to start on hard mode, that has nothing to do with Ubuntu or any other distro.

The fact that you chose Zorin, was probably cause you wanted it to "feel" like windows, and expected it to look like something other than what linux really is. A kernel with "possibly" a GUI wrapped around it.

Want to know what linux really is?
You presume too much, and I understand Linux's further reach quite well.
 

Brian_G

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Since this is a more friendly community than most of MyBB and I've been made to feel welcome :thumbsup::notworthy: , I'll share more, for the sake of interest re different angles of approach to Linux.

I had little choice. Lightning took out my last okay PC, so as times are tough I had to build one up from parts (my friend and I do some PC support).
The choice was to go with an older Win, or move on to Linux. I've always liked Linux and its possibilities and am sick and tired of Win. Common compatibility was always my reason why not, but I know it's come a long way.
Anyway, made the right choice which is why I'm here.

Zorin...
My knowledge until I got going was all academic, only my friend had tried using Linux and he had the Zorin disk. Simple as that... I progressed from there.

Love the possibilities for the future, I'll no doubt dig much deeper into Ububtu / Debian in time.
Thanks everyone :cool:
 

netstrider

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Nope, ubuntu was not made for ancient PCs, it was made for "not the latest and greatest". The conclusion of your line of reasoning is that no OS would ever evolve into anything past a Ti-85.

Plenty of 3rd world schools, universities and technical colleges run some form of Unix / Linux, and they seem to be running year on year, with far better reliability than any windows box could ever achieve.

Linux facilitates learning more than any other offline OS, it's used from ras-pi and micro-servers all the way up to literal supercomputers.

You had a tough time, because you chose to start on hard mode, that has nothing to do with Ubuntu or any other distro.

The fact that you chose Zorin, was probably cause you wanted it to "feel" like windows, and expected it to look like something other than what linux really is. A kernel with "possibly" a GUI wrapped around it.

Want to know what linux really is?

Try arch, or Unix? Pick up a flavour of BSD.

Learn (the hard way, or the easy way), Grow, Repeat, that is what Unix asks you to do. And in turn it will hand you the keys to every cycle of your hardware, to do as you see fit.

Windows / OSX will never come close.

There is some good advice in this thread.
I learned a lot with Debian netinstall, because it basically installs the kernel and the terminal-based aptitude and apt. From there you have to install every single package you will need.

I then proceeded to try LFS (Linux From Scratch), which has you compile the kernel and from there compile everything you will need without a package manager. Need to get the bootstrap and so on working which really teaches you quite a bit.
 

Brian_G

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Want to know what linux really is?

Try arch, or Unix? Pick up a flavour of BSD.

Learn (the hard way, or the easy way), Grow, Repeat, that is what Unix asks you to do. And in turn it will hand you the keys to every cycle of your hardware, to do as you see fit.
I learned a lot with Debian netinstall, because it basically installs the kernel and the terminal-based aptitude and apt. From there you have to install every single package you will need.

I then proceeded to try LFS (Linux From Scratch), which has you compile the kernel and from there compile everything you will need without a package manager. Need to get the bootstrap and so on working which really teaches you quite a bit.
Are you guys in your 20's / 30's?

I used to be as experimental and enthusiastic, but I'm heading for my 60's so other things keep me busy now... ;- )
 

netstrider

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Are you guys in your 20's / 30's?

I used to be as experimental and enthusiastic, but I'm heading for my 60's so other things keep me busy now... ;- )
I was a teen back then, so yeah, early 30's now.

EDIT: For the record I mainly use Linux Mint now so I've not really experimented in a while, apart from installing Manjaro on another otherwise useless box at the office just for shits.
 

John_Phoenix

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Are you guys in your 20's / 30's?

I used to be as experimental and enthusiastic, but I'm heading for my 60's so other things keep me busy now... ;- )
Not in my 60s, can only hope to get there too, and those other things keep me busy too :D

I can say that I have not lost my drive to make and break stuff, in my opinion it is part of the magic of being alive, if it wasn't computers and programming, it would be engineering and metalwork, and when I'm old and geriatric one day, it'll be gardening and woodwork.
 

Skerminkel

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...and the experience has been long, with too many mountains, and I'm a programmer! S...

How many years have you spent learning Windows? I have used MS operating systems for close to 30 years before gradually moving over to Linux. Three years on Linux exclusively now.

I am not a programmer or IT professional, but decided that the costs and efforts of Windows (OS itself, software and security measures) are not worth it if Linux can do 99% of what I do for free, with great community support.
Started with Ubuntu, then dabbled with other desktops (xfce and Cinnamon) and now on KDE Neon.

Another example: My parents were completely BC (before computers) so when they had to get online I started them on Ubuntu. Learning from scratch, without comparing everything to Windows, took a few weeks.

So, it might feel like it is a bit tough to convert, but if you are not stuck in the Win way of doing things, Linux is very much accessible and usable to the masses.
 

Swa

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Well first mistake was an old version of something like Ubuntu when there are more modern things out there. Mint runs flawlessly for me. Only issue I had with 20 was the wifi would not auto connect and checking the box that's supposed to be the fix wouldn't work. I don't understand how you can break something that used to work before. Apart from that after installing compute drivers it would no longer boot from integrated graphics and be stuck at the cursor so it appears it's either one or the other and not both.

Yes I think it is feasible. So far only 2% of users use Linux. One of the main reasons being support for games. But that has made leaps and bounds recently. The main problem is that general stuff works good but then doing something advanced like hibernation takes endless configuration and then it's still not an integrated solution and you have to manually configure every module separately. That kills it for me as a general OS. But once more users are on board there should be more development and you'll find all of the options that windows has out of the box. By that time the majority of users will probably prefer it.
 

Brian_G

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[Not going to be answering comments much further myself as I'm personally happy with what's been discussed and answered.]


Regarding my earlier mention of security updates etc. not working, that was fully fixed by a combination of initially using terminal sudo update commands, and later installing further stuck updates in the GUI in selected parts slowly instead of in full all at once.

But they also confuse peeps by not being specific, like the message displayed if you look for updates when already up to date (no mention of earlier scheduled partial non-availability for 32 bit Lubuntu);

Screenshot from 2021-01-13 07-26-09.png
 

LinuxMintUser

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New to Ubuntu with ver. 18.04.5 LTS 32-bit Lite on a Pentium Dual Core, upgraded from orig. Zorin OS9 CD.

...and the experience has been long, with too many mountains, and I'm a programmer! So how can segments of the community expect that it's something for the masses as they like to say??

Upgrades are full of errors, and you can't just get to the top upgrade - needed many hours to get it right, and some terminal and "DOS" knowledge to get there which isn't fit for use by masses.

Many fixes require really complex and detailed research results.
For instance, as a new user my Boot folder section shouldn't have been near full which prevented software (s/w) updates, and took permissions changing (not easy) and eventually highly complex terminal commands and gentle care to sort out.

Lastly, I've still got a couple of system files (security etc.) which won't download / install, which is toooo confusing for newbies. Yes, I know it's free so nobody is truly accountable for released errors, but then how can it ever really be stable enough for wide usage??

Sorry in advance if it's a tired, old subject... and thanks for any insights. BTW, now that I'm up to speed I am very happy with it :cool:
1st of all if your boot partition is full delete some old kernels! 2nd you sound like a noob, so install Linux Mint and don't try advanced install until you know the operating system and partitions better! Just install in one partition and you should be fine! Advance install are for users that has used linux for years and also updated themselves to know the newer Linux versions and how it works! Also install Linux on it's own drive and don't try dual boot shite if you are new to it! Enjoy the non spyware, open source software and let me know if you need help!
 

cguy

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I learned a lot with Debian netinstall, because it basically installs the kernel and the terminal-based aptitude and apt. From there you have to install every single package you will need.

I then proceeded to try LFS (Linux From Scratch), which has you compile the kernel and from there compile everything you will need without a package manager. Need to get the bootstrap and so on working which really teaches you quite a bit.
I read this cover to cover before starting my current job:
https://www.amazon.com/Linux-Kernel-Development-Robert-Love/dp/0672329468/ref=nodl_
 

Brian_G

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I've been enjoying my Lubuntu, even set up proper most recent Ubuntu for a friend which is working well.

BUT
This morning mine crashed.
Left the room after turning on, when I returned it was endlessly searching for something in "DOS" and when trying keys like Escape it asked for password access but didn't pause. Then I rebooted, and it just goes to the disk operating system.

(Did find the equiv. of "safe mode" but makes no difference, and did a memory test.)

Something about a fault in the root, and wanting me to run "fsck" manually.

Is this simple? My same friend now tells me that's how his original effort crashed....

Thanks if anyone can assist.
 

w1z4rd

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I've been enjoying my Lubuntu, even set up proper most recent Ubuntu for a friend which is working well.

BUT
This morning mine crashed.
Left the room after turning on, when I returned it was endlessly searching for something in "DOS" and when trying keys like Escape it asked for password access but didn't pause. Then I rebooted, and it just goes to the disk operating system.

(Did find the equiv. of "safe mode" but makes no difference, and did a memory test.)

Something about a fault in the root, and wanting me to run "fsck" manually.

Is this simple? My same friend now tells me that's how his original effort crashed....

Thanks if anyone can assist.
Take a picture of the error message so we can see.

fsck is about your hard disk, so it might be broken.

That "dos" (its known as cli - command line interface) thing you might be looking at could have been a file system check, and you rebooting halfway through could have made things worse.
 

Brian_G

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I'll probably be away most of the day (not my laptop), and apologies for poor quality.

Normal reboot result
Image0133.jpg

Safe mode result
Image0134.jpg

Thanks
 
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