Madiba backs ANC at rally

[Alan]

i think mugabe started off good but then went bad.

and now seems same with madiba :-/

thats all im saying is that him coming back to the ANC basically says he agrees with what they say.

I got to do some serious propaganda deprogramming to do here

Don't you find it a little odd that they just changed? Quite a coincidence don't you think?

Mugabe was terrorist ffs. He killed and terrorized people long before he came to power. In 1983 he started a genocidal campaign against the Ndebele killing tens of thousands of them. That's 3 years after coming to power. Even after that he was still receiving honorary doctorates and plaudits from the liberals the world over for being a great statesman. He no more "changed" from great leader to despot than Hitler.

Madiba is no different. Only now he no longer needs to keep up the charade for the useful idiots. He doesn't need them anymore.

 

[Albereth]

i think mugabe started off good but then went bad.

Ugly Bob never start off good - it was always a lie. But folk just want to believe, we're kinda dumb that way.

 

[Buddha]

either / or ...

shadowfox kinda got what i was trying to say.

lets not derail on the mugabe thing. basically what i was saying is we need the madiba from 94... because this madiba is basically condoning what the ANC have done in the last 10years to the country

 

[Alan]

I'm sure that isn't what he was saying. We needed someone like Mandela after the '94 elections - he had a solid vision of what the country needed and he set out to do it.

What exactly did he do? Let criminals ravage the country? Spend billions on arms that should have been spent on the poverty stricken people.....

All he did was what was needed to get into power. That was make an acceptable deal with the Nats that would get the support of the international community. Do you think he would have got anywhere behaving like Zuma who he now endorses? He's not an idiot.

You can't really compare him to Mugabe ... and besides - Mandela served his one term and then bowed out - Mugabe didn't - he became a power-hungry dictator who didn't give a cr@p about the people he was supposed to govern.

Yes you can. There are startling parallels between the two. They came to power using the same modus operandi. Hence the lavish praise they both received from the same people.

If Mugabe had bowed out and retired into luxury but endorsed a despot who'd behave like he does now it wouldn't make much a difference. Madiba just endorsed a "power-hungry dictator who didn't give a cr@p about the people".

Anyways, its only after Mandela left that corruption became as bad as it is now - it wasn't non-existent before, but these days no-one even blinks if some government official gets busted. There's a "that's still news?" apathy going about now.

When did the arms happen again? 1999 IIRC. Where was Madiba when it was formulated? Almost all the people you condemn now for corruption were in high positions of power when Madiba was president. You telling me they weren't corrupt then. They too also just suddenly changed as well?

lets not derail on the mugabe thing. basically what i was saying is we need the madiba from 94... because this madiba is basically condoning what the ANC have done in the last 10years to the country

It's the same Madiba. How can he just "change". What changed him?

 

[shadowfox]

Yes you can. There are startling parallels between the two. They came to power using the same modus operandi. Hence the lavish praise they both received from the same people.

Not exactly. Zimbabwe decended into a rather brutal civil war before getting where they were before Mugabe lost the plot. Even after Mugabe was elected the country suffered several years of uprisings - 20,000 Matabele were killed by Mugabe and his troops over the course of 3 or 4 years.

I don't know where you were, but things were relatively peaceful over here after the transition, unless I missed a few mindless genocidal slaughters.

When did the arms happen again? 1999 IIRC. Where was Madiba when it was formulated? Almost all the people you condemn now for corruption were in high positions of power when Madiba was president. You telling me they weren't corrupt then. They too also just suddenly changed as well?

I don't disagree with you on that point ... and I never claimed that anyone changed .... you're being deliberately argumentative. All I'm saying is that corruption wasn't as rife as it was today - and people didn't receive the blanket protection they do today - just look at Niehaus. He says sorry - so everything's okay. That's today's ANC

 

[Buddha]

...just look at Niehaus. He says sorry - so everything's okay. That's today's ANC

and what i was trying to say is that by madiba backing the ANC, he was condoning that sort of thing. which is very anti his whole 'image' and hence my original statement that its sad and he is basically lost my respect.

take the rest of the 'discussion' as you want

 

[Alan]

Not exactly. Zimbabwe decended into a rather brutal civil war before getting where they were before Mugabe lost the plot. Even after Mugabe was elected the country suffered several years of uprisings - 20,000 Matabele were killed by Mugabe and his troops over the course of 3 or 4 years.

I don't know where you were, but things were relatively peaceful over here after the transition, unless I missed a few mindless genocidal slaughters.

http://www.issafrica.org/CJM/statgraphs/murder1.htm

That means well over 20 000 murders( reported) per year. Between 1994 and 1999. Easily over 100 000 innocent people dead over those five years. More South Africans died in the 5 years of Madiba rule than Zimbabweans after 20 years of Mugabe rule before he "lost the plot".

I don't disagree with you on that point ... and I never claimed that anyone changed .... you're being deliberately argumentative. All I'm saying is that corruption wasn't as rife as it was today - and people didn't receive the blanket protection they do today - just look at Niehaus. He says sorry - so everything's okay. That's today's ANC

Well the arms deal corruption happened around 1999. It's only coming to light now. Just today the ANC is more bold in defending it then they were in th 90s

 

[Abe]

But I still think COPE will be the official opposition in most provinces and maybe even national.

Thats a big prediction:

2004 was:

ANC 10880915 69.69 %
DA 1931201 12.37 %

That would mean that COPE need to pick up roughly 2000000 votes (assuming that they poach most from the ANC). That sort of situation would cut the ANC down to about 56% which is a massive drop.

 

[Abe]

The other thing was, there was a short interview with Zuma in the clip, during which I couldn't help noticing he pushed his glasses back up his nose using his middle finger, and gave the camera a brief glance afterwards. Almost like he was saying... something.

Sounds like something another regional leader in Africa does quite often just north of here.

 

[Abe]

Anyways, its only after Mandela left that corruption became as bad as it is now - it wasn't non-existent before, but these days no-one even blinks if some government official gets busted. There's a "that's still news?" apathy going about now.

Yes, the ANC was bankrupt after Mandela left. Now it's worth over R1 billion rand thanks to Mbeki.

 

[FantaFest]

Just a political thing to get votes-just using the hero of apartheid (though their are many) to get more votes.

 

[Slyce]

Hi

I'm a new poster on this forum but I've been reading it for a while now and I must admit that I enjoy the general banter etc.

However, there is something that I must raise. I get the feeling that the majority of people that post on here are white and therefore the arguements lack diversity. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not playing the race card or asking for trouble, all I'm saying is that sometimes we should look at other people's perspectives. For instance, how many of you have been to the Apartheid Museum in Jhb? As South Africans, we should make it our duty to visit the place so that we have a balanced look at our past. I was there recently and in the 3-4 hours that I was there, I could not count a single white South African. Why is that???

Aplologies if my post is off topic...

 

[Buddha]

welcome slyce,

well im sure a lot moar 'other race' people would be online if telkom wasnt a monopoly, and eskom put power into the (newly built) houses etc.

also if people had proper education to be able to use the net. (not saying i have proper grammar/spellink)

but yeah i think its off topic and ill steer clear of it

 

[Albereth]

I could not count a single white South African. Why is that???

The state of the education system is shocking?

 

[Slyce]

Very funny Albereth But for your information, I know white people with just as bad an education. Ever been to Danville in Pta? Shocking...

 

[Albereth]

LOL

Yes, they are all subject to the same terrible education system.

 

[Slyce]

But seriously dude, visit the Apartheid Museum. It really opened my eyes. Every South African should visit that place.

 

[Gothan]

And what did you take from the apartheid museum (figuratively of course)?

 

[killadoob]

How exactly can a leader of a party be different from the rest of the party?

Alan i thought he was different because i am sure there are a few people who put in his position would have murdered every single white in South Africa. He came out and wanted peace while others would have wanted blood.

So yes i thought he was different.

 

[Buddha]

lol @ gothan

erm my mate just went downstairs to have a smoke and our buildings carwash guy (hes been working here for like 10years) says that his family is from the area where this 'rally' took place...apparently there were not 20k people but more like 100.

any actually images from this 'rally' to show the crowd and not the stage?