Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine!

[koeksGHT]

[video=youtube;Px2rfWBW4wg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px2rfWBW4wg[/video]

 

[Grant]

i cant help but wonder how many, if any, passengers were still alive and conscious when they, and the plane started falling from the sky

 

[ichigo]

i cant help but wonder how many, if any, passengers were still alive and conscious when they, and the plane started falling from the sky

I presume most would have died from the lack of air up there before hitting the ground.

 

[koeksGHT]

I presume most would have died from the lack of air up there before hitting the ground.

within a minute you would pass out, although possible to regain consciousness before hitting the ground. Not likely tho

 

[LazyLion]

PUTIN 'MUST TAKE RESPONSIBILITY' FOR CRASH SITE ACCESS: DUTCH PM

Vladimir Putin must act to allow access to the Ukranian rebel-held crash site of flight MH17 so bodies can be removed, Prime Minister Mark Rutte said Saturday after a "very intense" conversation with the Russian president.

"He (Putin) must now take responsibility vis-a-vis the rebels," Rutte told journalists in The Hague after pro-Russian separatists hindered access to the crash site where 298 died in Thursday's plane crash, 192 of them Dutch.

"The Netherlands and the world will see that he does what needs to be done," Rutte said.

"Given today's developments and the images from this morning, I sent a message to the president to once more exert his influence on the rebels," Rutte added.

"Everyone saw how the plane wreckage, the passengers and the personal belongings are still spread around the site.

"He (Putin) promised me his cooperation yesterday.

"I told him that he must show the world that he wants to help."

Rutte said he was "shocked" by news images of "shameless" rebels handling passenger possessions and walking around the crash site.

Rutte said that he had spoken to Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott and German Chancellor Angela Merkel and that they also said Putin must act.

"Unimpeded access and quick recuperation of the bodies is the number one priority," Rutte said.


Source : Sapa-AFP /mjs
Date : 19 Jul 2014 18:41

 

[Grant]

within a minute you would pass out, although possible to regain consciousness before hitting the ground. Not likely tho

thing is, you would not float in the air for a minute or so after the plane was hit.
everything starts falling at speed of gravity.

 

[Sinbad]

thing is, you would not float in the air for a minute or so after the plane was hit.
everything starts falling at speed of gravity.

Terminal velocity of a body is about 200km/h
So from 10km about a 3 minute fall

 

[Dave]

God the Daily mail have done a terrible job with that article, especially towards the end.

If I'm honest, I didn't read the article (it would just be Daily Fail crap), that's why I linked and commented that it showed the BUK images. It was the first place I found that had a BUK system, the 2 images in the rebel town and then being trailered out.

 

[Grant]

Terminal velocity of a body is about 200km/h
So from 10km about a 3 minute fall

ok
let me clarify a little.
your body would not float in the air for a minute or two, at the same altitude as the plane when it was stuck - where there is a lack of oxygen.

 

[ichigo]

within a minute you would pass out, although possible to regain consciousness before hitting the ground. Not likely tho

shouldn't the lack of air and cold kill a person quickly while falling?

 

[Compton_effect]

ok
let me clarify a little.
your body would not float in the air for a minute or two, at the same altitude as the plane when it was stuck - where there is a lack of oxygen.

One really bad shot was of a passenger in her (black dress) seat that slammed into the ground on her side. One visible thing was charring on her face - so chances are a number of passengers were lucky enough to asphyxiate when the missile detonated.
I'd prefer that to the other option.

 

[Grant]

One really bad shot was of a passenger in her (black dress) seat that slammed into the ground on her side. One visible thing was charring on her face - so chances are a number of passengers were lucky enough to asphyxiate when the missile detonated.
I'd prefer that to the other option.

oh yes.
i would far rather be instantly killed and spared the horror of seeing the plane i am traveling in, disintegrate before my eyes moments before i start plummeting to my death.

i also firmly believe, the most horrific photos of the corpse's needs to be plastered all over the media to drive home the horror.
sanitized versions of victims in body bags or covered by sheets of plastic do no good.

 

[Mortymoose]

Whilst watching the dicks from the Pro russian rebels on a news channel, images of certain thugs from pre 1940, flashed back, since June the 6th 'I have watched a ton of doccies about this era in human history, it all comes a circle, ignorant feckin dicks in camo with a gun on their back, make no mistake, history is about to repeat herself, best the western powers get their liberal act together and act ....... In a manner familair to what the transgressors understand...

How the feck , 72 hours after the incident, can bodies still be lying on the steppes, feck them.....buch of ignoramus uniformed dicks living in the past....

 

[Arthur]

ok
let me clarify a little.
your body would not float in the air for a minute or two, at the same altitude as the plane when it was stuck - where there is a lack of oxygen.

Gravity is always on (the plane couldn't fly without it). At the time of the missile hit everyone is travelling parallel to the ground at about 850 km/h. As the fuselage breaks apart, some people are immediately thrown into the air and hit by the 850 km/h wind at say -50 C. As they rapidly decelerate over a few seconds owing to wind resistance their fall arcs downwards until all forward momentum is lost and they fall vertically down. Others might well stay belted to their seats in sections of the fuselage, now plummeting to earth. These are the ones most likely to have a prolonged experience of the horror. At that altitude the air is less dense, with insufficient oxygen. But those who are not instantly killed by hitting the 800 km/h airstream and objects moved by it might well lose consciousness within a minute or two owing to lack of oxygen (the effect is not instant, as you can establish by holding your breath) and cold. As their falling bodies reach denser air it is quite possible to recover consciousness again, and to be conscious until impact.

 

[Grant]

Gravity is always on (the plane couldn't fly without it). At the time of the missile hit everyone is travelling parallel to the ground at about 850 km/h. As the fuselage breaks apart, some people are immediately thrown into the air and hit by the 850 km/h wind at say -50 C. As they rapidly decelerate over a few seconds owing to wind resistance their fall arcs downwards until all forward momentum is lost and they fall vertically down. Others might well stay belted to their seats in sections of the fuselage, now plummeting to earth. These are the ones most likely to have a prolonged experience of the horror. At that altitude the air is less dense, with insufficient oxygen. But those who are not instantly killed by hitting the 800 km/h airstream and objects moved by it might well lose consciousness within a minute or two owing to lack of oxygen (the effect is not instant, as you can establish by holding your breath) and cold. As their falling bodies reach denser air it is quite possible to recover consciousness again, and to be conscious until impact.

this is pretty much what i think may have happened to some of those people

 

[koeksGHT]

shouldn't the lack of air and cold kill a person quickly while falling?

~ -30C I believe at 33000ft , I ski in that. If you didn't die from explosion or pass out within 30s most likely you would have been conscious

 

[ichigo]

~ -30C I believe at 33000ft , I ski in that. If you didn't die from explosion or pass out within 30s most likely you would have been conscious

Skiing is different as you are in the clothes for that weather and they were in summer clothes as it is summer there I would probably die from that cold if I was in it without warm clothes .

 

[Arthur]

I think it's quite a bit lower than -30 C at 33000'. And then there's the wind chill.

 

[Unhappy438]

UK and Netherlands call for review of EU-Russia relations

The UK and the Netherlands have called on the EU to reconsider its relations with Russia as evidence mounts that pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine shot down Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 on Thursday.
Raising the expectation of further sanctions against Russia, British prime minister David Cameron and Mark Rutte, his Dutch counterpart, said on Saturday that Russian president Vladimir Putin needed to “actively engage with the international community and use his influence on the separatists to ensure they allow access to the crash site”.
“The PM and PM Rutte agreed that the EU will need to reconsider its approach to Russia in light of evidence that pro-Russian separatists brought down the plane,” Downing Street added.

Dutch foreign minister Frans Timmermans said the Netherlands was “angry, furious” at news that some of the 298 bodies at the site were not being “treated properly”.
Dutch forensic experts left for the crash site on Saturday but continued to encounter difficulties in identifying and repatriating the bodies of the 193 Dutch citizens on the flight, he said.
Mr Timmermans said the Netherlands would not rest until those responsible, and those that supported them, were brought to justice.
New foreign secretary Philip Hammond complained that the UK was “not getting enough support from the Russians, adding: “The world’s eyes will be on Russia to see if she delivers on her obligations in the next couple of hours.”
In a rare admission by Russia of its role in the conflict, Moscow pledged on Saturday to use its influence with the rebels to move towards a political solution, in what observers said was a small signal that Moscow might become more co-operative.
The Russian foreign ministry said Russia’s foreign minister Sergei Lavrov and US secretary of state John Kerry agreed in a phone call on Saturday that both parties in the Ukrainian conflict should observe the April Geneva Declaration, which called for the cessation of all violence and the start of a political process.

Tony Abbott, Australia’s prime minister, on Saturday threatened to try to block Russian President Vladimir Putin from attending a G20 summit in November if he failed to help with the investigation.
US President Barack Obama said on Friday that the plane was brought down by a missile fired from territory controlled by pro-Russian separatists and that the rebels in eastern Ukraine had received training from Russia in the use of anti-aircraft weaponry.
The calls for Russia to bring the rebels to heel came as Ukraine directly accused Russian military personnel of firing the missile that downed MH17 and released photographs of a Buk rocket system – the missile widely believed to have been used – said to have been taken on Thursday in territory held by the Russian-backed separatists near the crash site. One image showed a trail of smoke, which the state security service said was left by a rocket after it was fired at the airliner on Thursday.
“Russia is trying to cover its tracks and claim that another party is responsible for the act of terrorism,” Vitaliy Nayda, the head of counter-intelligence.
Ukraine also accused the rebels of destroying evidence at the site of the disaster, which is in rebel-held territory in the east of the country. “The terrorists, with the help of Russia, are trying to destroy evidence of international crimes,” the government said.
Ukraine’s prime minister said armed men had prevented government experts from collecting evidence and threatened to detain them, while bodies had been removed from the site near the border with Russia.
Andriy Lysenko, spokesman for Ukraine’s National Security and Defence Council, said rebels were forcing emergency workers to collect evidence and hand it over to them.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/ba4b5ff0-0f3c-11e4-89b6-00144feabdc0.html#slide0

 

[Sinbad]

I think it's quite a bit lower than -30 C at 33000'. And then there's the wind chill.

-60 or so if I remember right