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Bar0n
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Well, that pretty much settles it.
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Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine!
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
Well, that pretty much settles it.
Bar0n
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I can tell you that Putin's ratings are basically at an all-time high. (Don't have a link, saw an article on News24 on Thursday/Friday.)
EDIT: Here you go, not News24, but published on Friday, http://washingtonexaminer.com/putin...in-years-as-obamas-star-fades/article/2551031
Last edited:
Jola
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Just shows what state propaganda can achieve.
Exactly what Hitler and Goebbels did to the German people.
Anyone still not understanding how Hitler manipulated normally sensible German people ?
Here is another example of exactly how you do it.
Bar0n
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Strong leaders are popular. I would not equate Putin to Hitler, nor would I say the Russians are currently waging a massive propaganda war.
Jola
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Would not agree with that.
Hitler and Goebbels were also subtle in the beginning. Putin is definitely following in their footsteps.
LazyLion
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He is far from a strong leader. He is a schoolyard bully and an arms dealer.
That is all.
Beauty of social meadia, when you speak millions of people hear you. Everyone becomes a witness, anyone can become a cop against you
LazyLion
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INDIAN PLANE TRIED TO CONTACT DOWNED MALAYSIA MH17: REPORT
An Air India plane flying less than 25 kilometres from Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 when it was downed had tried to make contact with the pilots, a newspaper said Sunday.
The Times of India said Ukrainian air traffic controllers had asked the Air India pilots to try and establish contact with the Malaysia Airlines jet, which had stopped responding to its calls.
The Air India plane, which was flying from Delhi to Birmingham and was less than 25 kilometres (15.5 miles) from Malaysia MH17, received no response, according to the paper.
"The AI Dreamliner was less than 25km from the Malaysian aircraft when the latter was hit by a missile," an unidentified airline source told the newspaper.
"When the pilots learned of the cause of the crash later, they were stunned."
According to the newspaper, it is standard practice for air traffic controllers to ask pilots of aircraft in the vicinity to get in touch with pilots who have stopped responding.
The newspaper also said that minutes before the crash, the Air India pilots heard air traffic controllers give the Malaysian plane a "direct routing".
This allows a plane to fly straight rather than tracking from one navigation point to another, and saves time and fuel.
An Air India spokesman declined to comment on the report.
The report comes despite a denial by India's civil aviation ministry last week that the Air India plane was close to the Malaysian jet, which was cut down over Ukraine's troubled eastern region on Thursday.
Ukraine accuses Moscow of helping pro-Russian rebels to shoot down the Malaysian plane, killing 298 people.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 13:33
An Air India plane flying less than 25 kilometres from Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 when it was downed had tried to make contact with the pilots, a newspaper said Sunday.
The Times of India said Ukrainian air traffic controllers had asked the Air India pilots to try and establish contact with the Malaysia Airlines jet, which had stopped responding to its calls.
The Air India plane, which was flying from Delhi to Birmingham and was less than 25 kilometres (15.5 miles) from Malaysia MH17, received no response, according to the paper.
"The AI Dreamliner was less than 25km from the Malaysian aircraft when the latter was hit by a missile," an unidentified airline source told the newspaper.
"When the pilots learned of the cause of the crash later, they were stunned."
According to the newspaper, it is standard practice for air traffic controllers to ask pilots of aircraft in the vicinity to get in touch with pilots who have stopped responding.
The newspaper also said that minutes before the crash, the Air India pilots heard air traffic controllers give the Malaysian plane a "direct routing".
This allows a plane to fly straight rather than tracking from one navigation point to another, and saves time and fuel.
An Air India spokesman declined to comment on the report.
The report comes despite a denial by India's civil aviation ministry last week that the Air India plane was close to the Malaysian jet, which was cut down over Ukraine's troubled eastern region on Thursday.
Ukraine accuses Moscow of helping pro-Russian rebels to shoot down the Malaysian plane, killing 298 people.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 13:33
LazyLion
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FRANCE WARNS OF 'CONSEQUENCES' IF RUSSIA UNCOOPERATIVE ON MH17 CRASH SITE ACCESS
France warned Russia Sunday there would be "consequences" if Moscow did not put pressure on pro-Kremlin separatists in Ukraine to allow rescuers and investigators unfettered access to the crash site of flight MH17.
"If Russia does not immediately take the necessary measures, consequences will be drawn by the European Union at the Foreign Affairs Council which takes place on Tuesday," the French presidency said in a statement after the leaders of France, Germany and Britain held a conference call.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 13:33
France warned Russia Sunday there would be "consequences" if Moscow did not put pressure on pro-Kremlin separatists in Ukraine to allow rescuers and investigators unfettered access to the crash site of flight MH17.
"If Russia does not immediately take the necessary measures, consequences will be drawn by the European Union at the Foreign Affairs Council which takes place on Tuesday," the French presidency said in a statement after the leaders of France, Germany and Britain held a conference call.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 13:33
LazyLion
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BODIES FROM MH17 SITE PLACED ON TRAIN, OSCE SAYS TOLD BY REBELS
European security body OSCE said Sunday that pro-Moscow rebels in east Ukraine told it that 169 bodies collected from the crash site of Malaysian flight MH17 have been placed on a train pending arrival of international experts.
Spokesman Michael Bociurkiw said separatists who were in charge of the operation had given the assurance to OSCE monitors at the Torez station.
Asked about reports that a train carrying corpses had already arrived at the rebel stronghold city of Donetsk, the OSCE spokesman, who was speaking from the crash site, said he could not say for certain if the trains had been moved.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 12:44
European security body OSCE said Sunday that pro-Moscow rebels in east Ukraine told it that 169 bodies collected from the crash site of Malaysian flight MH17 have been placed on a train pending arrival of international experts.
Spokesman Michael Bociurkiw said separatists who were in charge of the operation had given the assurance to OSCE monitors at the Torez station.
Asked about reports that a train carrying corpses had already arrived at the rebel stronghold city of Donetsk, the OSCE spokesman, who was speaking from the crash site, said he could not say for certain if the trains had been moved.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 12:44
LazyLion
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WORLD AIDS FORUM OPENS TO TRIBUTE FOR PLANE DEAD
A six-day world forum on AIDS got underway on Sunday to tributes to six campaigners killed on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 and fresh vows to crush a disease that has claimed twice as many lives as World War I.
Thousands of delegates at the 20th International AIDS Conference in Melbourne stood for a minute's silence in honour of six colleagues who had been aboard the plane.
They included Joep Lange, a Dutch scientist who had played a frontline role in the 33-year war on AIDS.
"Let our silence represent our sadness, our anger and our solidarity," said French scientist Francoise Barre-Sinoussi, who co-won the Nobel Prize for helping to discover the virus that causes AIDS.
Australian researcher Sharon Lewin, a leading expert in the search for a cure for HIV, said the tight-knit AIDS community had been deeply shocked by the loss of Lange and his partner, Jacqueline van Tongeren, a prominent grassroots campaigner.
"I... know they would want us all to continue the great work they were both so passionate about -- seeing an end to HIV," said Lewin, who is co-chairing the conference with Barre-Sinoussi.
Hundreds of delegates tied tiny red ribbons -- the symbol of the fight against AIDS -- to panels of remembrance or signed books of condolence. A candlelit vigil is to be held in the city's Federation Square on Tuesday night.
Around 12,000 researchers, policymakers, workers and activists are expected to attend the event, which is held every two years.
Hundreds of seminars and workshops are lined up, reflecting the way that AIDS began as a minor medical curiosity 33 years ago before exploding into an issue that has gone way beyond medicine to enter the arenas of sexual taboo, discrimination, law and open governance.
Major health issues this year will be the latest news on the search for a cure and on a campaign in Africa to encourage male circumcision to protect men from HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.
There is also a groundswell of anger at laws against gays in Africa and a crackdown on intravenous drug users in Russia that experts say are helping HIV to thrive by driving it underground.
Delegates are being urged to sign a document, the Melbourne Declaration, to demand tolerance.
"We will not stand idly by when governments, in violation of all human rights principles, are enforcing monstrous laws that only marginalise populations that are already the most vulnerable in society," said Barre-Sinoussi.
Since 1981, around 78 million people have been infected by the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), which destroys immune cells and leaves the body exposed to TB, pneumonia and other opportunistic diseases.
Thirty-nine million have died, according to UN estimates. Historians generally put fatalities from World War 1, military and civilian, at between 15 and 17 million.
In 2013, around 35 million people around the world had HIV, 1.5 million died of an AIDS-related disease, and around 2.1 million became newly infected.
The good news, though, is that millions of lives are being saved by antiretroviral drugs, which started to become available in the mid-1990s. The drugs suppress the virus, but do not eradicate it.
In 2013, nearly 13 million people in poor countries had seized the lifeline compared to only 1.3 million in 2005.
"We have done more in the last three years than we have done in the previous 25," said Michel Sidibe, executive director of the UN agency UNAIDS.
But, he warned, far more needs to be done.
At least 28 million people are medically eligible for the drugs. UNAIDS says spending, currently at around $19 billion (14 billion euros) annually, needs to be ramped up to at least $22 billion next year.
"No one must be left behind," said Sidibe.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 13:24
A six-day world forum on AIDS got underway on Sunday to tributes to six campaigners killed on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 and fresh vows to crush a disease that has claimed twice as many lives as World War I.
Thousands of delegates at the 20th International AIDS Conference in Melbourne stood for a minute's silence in honour of six colleagues who had been aboard the plane.
They included Joep Lange, a Dutch scientist who had played a frontline role in the 33-year war on AIDS.
"Let our silence represent our sadness, our anger and our solidarity," said French scientist Francoise Barre-Sinoussi, who co-won the Nobel Prize for helping to discover the virus that causes AIDS.
Australian researcher Sharon Lewin, a leading expert in the search for a cure for HIV, said the tight-knit AIDS community had been deeply shocked by the loss of Lange and his partner, Jacqueline van Tongeren, a prominent grassroots campaigner.
"I... know they would want us all to continue the great work they were both so passionate about -- seeing an end to HIV," said Lewin, who is co-chairing the conference with Barre-Sinoussi.
Hundreds of delegates tied tiny red ribbons -- the symbol of the fight against AIDS -- to panels of remembrance or signed books of condolence. A candlelit vigil is to be held in the city's Federation Square on Tuesday night.
Around 12,000 researchers, policymakers, workers and activists are expected to attend the event, which is held every two years.
Hundreds of seminars and workshops are lined up, reflecting the way that AIDS began as a minor medical curiosity 33 years ago before exploding into an issue that has gone way beyond medicine to enter the arenas of sexual taboo, discrimination, law and open governance.
Major health issues this year will be the latest news on the search for a cure and on a campaign in Africa to encourage male circumcision to protect men from HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.
There is also a groundswell of anger at laws against gays in Africa and a crackdown on intravenous drug users in Russia that experts say are helping HIV to thrive by driving it underground.
Delegates are being urged to sign a document, the Melbourne Declaration, to demand tolerance.
"We will not stand idly by when governments, in violation of all human rights principles, are enforcing monstrous laws that only marginalise populations that are already the most vulnerable in society," said Barre-Sinoussi.
Since 1981, around 78 million people have been infected by the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), which destroys immune cells and leaves the body exposed to TB, pneumonia and other opportunistic diseases.
Thirty-nine million have died, according to UN estimates. Historians generally put fatalities from World War 1, military and civilian, at between 15 and 17 million.
In 2013, around 35 million people around the world had HIV, 1.5 million died of an AIDS-related disease, and around 2.1 million became newly infected.
The good news, though, is that millions of lives are being saved by antiretroviral drugs, which started to become available in the mid-1990s. The drugs suppress the virus, but do not eradicate it.
In 2013, nearly 13 million people in poor countries had seized the lifeline compared to only 1.3 million in 2005.
"We have done more in the last three years than we have done in the previous 25," said Michel Sidibe, executive director of the UN agency UNAIDS.
But, he warned, far more needs to be done.
At least 28 million people are medically eligible for the drugs. UNAIDS says spending, currently at around $19 billion (14 billion euros) annually, needs to be ramped up to at least $22 billion next year.
"No one must be left behind," said Sidibe.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 13:24
Jola
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Not sure what you mean by that, that was an official US statement on the matter.
Surely backed up by credible intelligence.
He did not make a personal comment on the statement.
I meant that the perpetrators posted evidence that is now working against them before they knew what they had just done, and it's there for all to see
LazyLion
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UKRAINE PM SAYS MH17 NOT DOWNED BY 'DRUNKEN GORILLAS': REPORT
Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said in comments published Sunday that Russia was likely behind the downing of a Malaysian airliner as such an operation takes professionals and not "drunken gorillas".
"Very professional personnel is needed to find targets and fire this missile," he told a German newspaper about the suspected shooting down of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine which claimed 298 lives.
"It is possible that these kinds of people came from Russia," he was quoted as saying by the newspaper in comments translated into German.
Yatsenyuk suggested it was unlikely pro-Russian separatists alone had fired a missile, as "we known that such such systems can't be operated by drunken gorillas", the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung reported him as saying.
The premier also said that Ukrainian forces had never used missiles in the conflict and that "all of Ukraine's surface-to-air missiles are stationed elsewhere. We are prepared to make public all evidence and locations."
Yatsenyuk stressed that the conflict in Ukraine was not a civil war but "a Russian-led intervention", describing it as "Russian-led, Russian-backed, Russian-financed and Russian-organised".
He added that "now is the time to stop Russian aggression".
Germany's foreign minister meanwhile demanded that independent investigators quickly be given unhindered access to the site of the downed jet in rebel-controlled eastern Ukraine.
"Anyone who hinders the investigation has something to hide or has no heart," Frank-Walter Steinmeier was quoted as saying in the Bild daily.
He urged an "independent international investigation that is beyond all doubt" and said "the perpetrators and their backers must not get away".
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 12:38
Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said in comments published Sunday that Russia was likely behind the downing of a Malaysian airliner as such an operation takes professionals and not "drunken gorillas".
"Very professional personnel is needed to find targets and fire this missile," he told a German newspaper about the suspected shooting down of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine which claimed 298 lives.
"It is possible that these kinds of people came from Russia," he was quoted as saying by the newspaper in comments translated into German.
Yatsenyuk suggested it was unlikely pro-Russian separatists alone had fired a missile, as "we known that such such systems can't be operated by drunken gorillas", the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung reported him as saying.
The premier also said that Ukrainian forces had never used missiles in the conflict and that "all of Ukraine's surface-to-air missiles are stationed elsewhere. We are prepared to make public all evidence and locations."
Yatsenyuk stressed that the conflict in Ukraine was not a civil war but "a Russian-led intervention", describing it as "Russian-led, Russian-backed, Russian-financed and Russian-organised".
He added that "now is the time to stop Russian aggression".
Germany's foreign minister meanwhile demanded that independent investigators quickly be given unhindered access to the site of the downed jet in rebel-controlled eastern Ukraine.
"Anyone who hinders the investigation has something to hide or has no heart," Frank-Walter Steinmeier was quoted as saying in the Bild daily.
He urged an "independent international investigation that is beyond all doubt" and said "the perpetrators and their backers must not get away".
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 12:38
LazyLion
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US BELIEVES RUSSIA GAVE REBELS MISSILES THAT DOWNED AIRLINER: REPORT
The United States believes Moscow provided Ukrainian rebels with the missile launchers that downed Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, and moved them back into Russia after it was hit, US newspapers reported late Saturday.
A US official speaking on condition of anonymity told the Washington Post intelligence services were "starting to get indications... a little more than a week ago" that three Russian launchers had been moved into Ukraine.
The Post said Vitaly Nayda, Ukraine's counterintelligence chief, had photographs and related evidence that three Buk M-1 antiaircraft missile systems moved from rebel-held territory into Russia early Friday, less than 12 hours after the plane was downed.
"We do believe they were trying to move back into Russia at least three Buk [missile launch] systems," the US official told the Post.
Kiev has accused the pro-Moscow militias of using a Russian-supplied Buk system to down the jet after confusing it with a Ukrainian military transporter.
According to Nayda, two antiaircraft systems were spotted entering Russia at 2 am Friday, one with its full complement of four missiles but the other apparently missing a missile.
Two hours later, at 4 am, Nayda said a convoy of vehicles that included one of the launchers crossed into Russia.
The Buk systems, also known as the SA-11 Gadfly, are self-propelled tracked vehicles that carry surface to air missiles.
US President Barack Obama and major world leaders believe the Malaysia Airlines jet was blown out of the sky at 33,000 feet (10,000 metres) by a sophisticated surface-to-air missile fired from rebel-controlled territory.
The attack killed all 298 people on board.
Ukraine accuses Russia of helping the militias to hide and destroy key evidence that could prove their alleged involvement.
"The assumption is they're trying to remove evidence of what they did," an unnamed senior US official told The Wall Street Journal.
The WSJ also quoted the official as saying new US intelligence assessments indicate Moscow likely provided pro-Russia separatists with sophisticated antiaircraft systems in recent days, matching the evidence put forward by Ukraine.
Russian President Vladimir Putin rejects all charges of providing funding or military support to the pro-Russian insurgents, and blames Ukrainian authorities for the tragedy.
Rebel commanders have also denied being in possession of any functioning Buk systems.
Source : Sapa-AFP /dm
Date : 20 Jul 2014 11:45
The United States believes Moscow provided Ukrainian rebels with the missile launchers that downed Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, and moved them back into Russia after it was hit, US newspapers reported late Saturday.
A US official speaking on condition of anonymity told the Washington Post intelligence services were "starting to get indications... a little more than a week ago" that three Russian launchers had been moved into Ukraine.
The Post said Vitaly Nayda, Ukraine's counterintelligence chief, had photographs and related evidence that three Buk M-1 antiaircraft missile systems moved from rebel-held territory into Russia early Friday, less than 12 hours after the plane was downed.
"We do believe they were trying to move back into Russia at least three Buk [missile launch] systems," the US official told the Post.
Kiev has accused the pro-Moscow militias of using a Russian-supplied Buk system to down the jet after confusing it with a Ukrainian military transporter.
According to Nayda, two antiaircraft systems were spotted entering Russia at 2 am Friday, one with its full complement of four missiles but the other apparently missing a missile.
Two hours later, at 4 am, Nayda said a convoy of vehicles that included one of the launchers crossed into Russia.
The Buk systems, also known as the SA-11 Gadfly, are self-propelled tracked vehicles that carry surface to air missiles.
US President Barack Obama and major world leaders believe the Malaysia Airlines jet was blown out of the sky at 33,000 feet (10,000 metres) by a sophisticated surface-to-air missile fired from rebel-controlled territory.
The attack killed all 298 people on board.
Ukraine accuses Russia of helping the militias to hide and destroy key evidence that could prove their alleged involvement.
"The assumption is they're trying to remove evidence of what they did," an unnamed senior US official told The Wall Street Journal.
The WSJ also quoted the official as saying new US intelligence assessments indicate Moscow likely provided pro-Russia separatists with sophisticated antiaircraft systems in recent days, matching the evidence put forward by Ukraine.
Russian President Vladimir Putin rejects all charges of providing funding or military support to the pro-Russian insurgents, and blames Ukrainian authorities for the tragedy.
Rebel commanders have also denied being in possession of any functioning Buk systems.
Source : Sapa-AFP /dm
Date : 20 Jul 2014 11:45
LazyLion
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MALAYSIAN PRIME MINISTER CALLS FOR UNITY AFTER TWO AVIATION DISASTERS
Prime Minister Najib Razak on Sunday urged Malaysians to come together after twin tragedies struck the country's aviation industry within a few months.
"Malaysians must remain steadfast and united in the face of this crisis, and continue to pray for the country far removed from the disaster," he said following the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 with 298 people on board in eastern Ukraine.
Thursday's incident took place while the country was still struggling to understand the March 8 disappearance of another Malaysia Airlines plane, with 239 people on board, about an hour after takeoff from Kuala Lumpur International Airport en route to Beijing.
Najib called for an emergency session of parliament next week to discuss the latest tragedy and Malaysia's response to it.
Opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim backed Najib's initiative.
"This is indeed a time of grief and sadness for all Malaysians, as it is too for others, and we urge all parties to refrain from making statements or remarks that are insensitive to the feelings of the families and loved ones of the innocent victims," he said.
Lim Kit Siang, leader of the Chinese-based opposition Democratic Action party, said the government must also investigate the disappearance of flight MH370.
"Just like MH17, the MH370 disaster deserves full and proper accountability which cannot wait until the missing aircraft is found -which may be weeks, months or even years," he said.
The government came under international and domestic criticism for its alleged reluctance to share information on flight MH370.
Relatives of the victims on that flight said it took Malaysia Airlines nearly two months to release the aircraft's cargo manifest, while it took only two days for the national carrier to release the cargo manifest of flight MH17.
"Our hearts are heavy, we want to pray for MH17 before we continue to pray for MH370," the relatives said on their Facebook page.
Source : Sapa-dpa /dm
Date : 20 Jul 2014 11:44
Prime Minister Najib Razak on Sunday urged Malaysians to come together after twin tragedies struck the country's aviation industry within a few months.
"Malaysians must remain steadfast and united in the face of this crisis, and continue to pray for the country far removed from the disaster," he said following the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 with 298 people on board in eastern Ukraine.
Thursday's incident took place while the country was still struggling to understand the March 8 disappearance of another Malaysia Airlines plane, with 239 people on board, about an hour after takeoff from Kuala Lumpur International Airport en route to Beijing.
Najib called for an emergency session of parliament next week to discuss the latest tragedy and Malaysia's response to it.
Opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim backed Najib's initiative.
"This is indeed a time of grief and sadness for all Malaysians, as it is too for others, and we urge all parties to refrain from making statements or remarks that are insensitive to the feelings of the families and loved ones of the innocent victims," he said.
Lim Kit Siang, leader of the Chinese-based opposition Democratic Action party, said the government must also investigate the disappearance of flight MH370.
"Just like MH17, the MH370 disaster deserves full and proper accountability which cannot wait until the missing aircraft is found -which may be weeks, months or even years," he said.
The government came under international and domestic criticism for its alleged reluctance to share information on flight MH370.
Relatives of the victims on that flight said it took Malaysia Airlines nearly two months to release the aircraft's cargo manifest, while it took only two days for the national carrier to release the cargo manifest of flight MH17.
"Our hearts are heavy, we want to pray for MH17 before we continue to pray for MH370," the relatives said on their Facebook page.
Source : Sapa-dpa /dm
Date : 20 Jul 2014 11:44
LazyLion
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ALL BODIES REMOVED FROM MAIN MH17 CRASH SITE IN UKRAINE: AFP
Scores of bodies that had been gathered at the main Ukraine crash site of Malaysian plane MH17 have been removed, an AFP reporter said on Sunday.
Pro-Russian rebels who had been guarding the impact site also appeared to have left. Local emergency crews declined comment when contacted.
Source : Sapa-AFP /dm
Date : 20 Jul 2014 11:18
Scores of bodies that had been gathered at the main Ukraine crash site of Malaysian plane MH17 have been removed, an AFP reporter said on Sunday.
Pro-Russian rebels who had been guarding the impact site also appeared to have left. Local emergency crews declined comment when contacted.
Source : Sapa-AFP /dm
Date : 20 Jul 2014 11:18
Jola
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OK, sorry, I misunderstood.
The perpetrators have tried to delete all their posts and comments, but fortunately many people seem to have taken screenshots.
So, yes, it is there for all to see.
Yeah digital evidence everywhere
Jola
Honorary Master
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- Sep 22, 2005
- Messages
- 20,124
Now a rhetorical question.
If you give an unlicensed firearm to some lowlife, and he kills an innocent person with it, what is your responsibility in this matter.
Apart from all sorts of charges in terms of handling unlicensed firearms, dealing in firearms, etc, can you be charged as an accomplice to murder ?
And what would the law be in the USA ?
Certainly you have a moral responsibility, but what about a legal one ?
And does this apply to Putin ?
If you give an unlicensed firearm to some lowlife, and he kills an innocent person with it, what is your responsibility in this matter.
Apart from all sorts of charges in terms of handling unlicensed firearms, dealing in firearms, etc, can you be charged as an accomplice to murder ?
And what would the law be in the USA ?
Certainly you have a moral responsibility, but what about a legal one ?
And does this apply to Putin ?