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supersunbird
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Like with Oscar (who lies about small incidents even his friends testified to as occurring), one can't believe a word Putin says...
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Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine!
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
Like with Oscar (who lies about small incidents even his friends testified to as occurring), one can't believe a word Putin says...
Jola
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I believe that they are using refrigerated trucks.
Last edited:
LazyLion
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BODIES MOVED FROM MH17 SITE AS WORLD DEMANDS PROBE
International monitors said Sunday that pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine had loaded scores of bodies from the crash site of downed Malaysian jet MH17 into train wagons as grieving families clamoured to have their loved ones brought home.
Observers from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) found the corpses packed into a series of refrigerated train wagons at a station in the town of Torez, some 15 kilometres (nine miles) from the crash site.
Spokesman Michael Bociurkiw described the stench at the station as "almost unbearable" and said separatists guarding the grisly cargo had pledged not to move the bodies until "international experts" arrive.
Top rebel leader Alexander Borodai told Russia's Echo of Moscow radio the fighters had loaded 196 bodies on to the trains.
What happens to the remains of the 298 people killed in the apparent shooting down of the Malaysia Airlines passenger plane Thursday has become of primary concern after they lay for days rotting in cornfields.
World leaders have demanded Russian President Vladimir Putin use his influence to persuade the rebels to hand over the victims and allow international investigators unfettered access to the crash site in Grabove.
The United States believes Moscow provided Ukrainian rebels with the missile launchers that blasted the plane out of the sky, several US newspapers reported.
France warned Russia on Sunday of "consequences" at the EU if Moscow did not "immediately take the necessary measures", after the leaders of France, Germany and Britain held a conference call.
An AFP crew found the scene of the tragedy largely abandoned Sunday, with all the bodies removed from the main impact site and the discarded gloves of emergency workers scattered around.
Near the blackened piles of mangled wreckage, lay the scattered possessions of the victims: suitcases torn open, passports, books, children's toys.
OSCE monitors escorted by armed rebels appeared Sunday to be granted greater freedom to examine the site, with investigators from the Netherlands set to arrive in Donetsk.
Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte -- his shocked nation flying flags at half mast in mourning over 192 lost compatriots -- urged Putin during a "very intense" call to "take responsibility" for a credible probe.
Across the globe relatives in the dozen countries whose citizens were killed when the Boeing 777 disintegrated as it flew from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur pleaded for them to be brought home.
"At this current moment I hope the world can assist the families to bring back the remains," Zulkifli Abdul Rahman, brother-in-law of one of the cabin crew, told AFP in Kuala Lumpur.
Ukraine accuses Russia of helping the gun-toting militias of hiding and destroying vital evidence that could prove their alleged involvement in the downing of the jet.
But top Russian officials and Moscow's state media have suggested that Kiev's new leaders staged the attack to blame the rebels and convince their Western allies to deploy troops and help seal Ukraine's porous border with its giant eastern neighbour.
The United States has called for "material evidence, including black boxes" to be handed over to international inspectors so they could take immediate charge of an independent probe, voicing concerns the removal of evidence from the scene.
But Putin firmly denies exerting any control over the uprising and a top rebel commander sent an email to the media on Sunday saying they would only accede to the demands if Kiev agrees to a truce to end months of fighting in the east.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, who won a May election following the ouster of a Kremlin-backed regime, ripped up a shaky ceasefire on July 1 and has refused to announce a new one until the separatists give up their arms.
Poroshenko spent much of the day Saturday pressing world leaders to recognise the militias as a terrorist organisation that should be put on trial at the International Criminal Court in The Hague.
He told French President Francois Hollande that the downing near Ukraine's Russian border of flight MH17 was similar to such atrocities as the 2001 attacks on the United States.
"We see no difference between the events in Ukraine and what happened on September 11 in the United States or the tragedy over Scotland's Lockerbie," Poroshenko said in reference to the 1988 bombing for Pan Am Flight 103 that claimed nearly 300 lives.
The MH17 disaster came less than a day after the United States unleashed punishing sanctions against some of Russia's most biggest military firms -- most of them with links to Putin -- and urged more hesitant European leaders to follow suit.
The European Union -- many of its member states dependent on Russian gas -- took the far less punitive step Friday of curbing some future investments in Russia and leaving the option open for broader sanctions.
But British Prime Minister David Cameron raised the prospect of fresh EU sanctions against Russia over the Malaysian plane crash, saying the West must "fundamentally change our approach" unless Moscow alters course in Ukraine.
"Russia can use this moment to find a path out of this festering, dangerous crisis. I hope it will do so. But if that does not happen then we must respond robustly," he wrote in the Sunday Times.
Cameron said confirmation of the plane being blown out of the sky at 33,000 feet (10,000) metres by a surface-to-air missile fired from an area held by the rebels would place the responsibility firmly on Russia.
"If it is the case, then we must be clear what it means: this is a direct result of Russia destabilising a sovereign state, violating its territorial integrity, backing thuggish militias, and training and arming them," Cameron wrote.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 14:16
International monitors said Sunday that pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine had loaded scores of bodies from the crash site of downed Malaysian jet MH17 into train wagons as grieving families clamoured to have their loved ones brought home.
Observers from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) found the corpses packed into a series of refrigerated train wagons at a station in the town of Torez, some 15 kilometres (nine miles) from the crash site.
Spokesman Michael Bociurkiw described the stench at the station as "almost unbearable" and said separatists guarding the grisly cargo had pledged not to move the bodies until "international experts" arrive.
Top rebel leader Alexander Borodai told Russia's Echo of Moscow radio the fighters had loaded 196 bodies on to the trains.
What happens to the remains of the 298 people killed in the apparent shooting down of the Malaysia Airlines passenger plane Thursday has become of primary concern after they lay for days rotting in cornfields.
World leaders have demanded Russian President Vladimir Putin use his influence to persuade the rebels to hand over the victims and allow international investigators unfettered access to the crash site in Grabove.
The United States believes Moscow provided Ukrainian rebels with the missile launchers that blasted the plane out of the sky, several US newspapers reported.
France warned Russia on Sunday of "consequences" at the EU if Moscow did not "immediately take the necessary measures", after the leaders of France, Germany and Britain held a conference call.
An AFP crew found the scene of the tragedy largely abandoned Sunday, with all the bodies removed from the main impact site and the discarded gloves of emergency workers scattered around.
Near the blackened piles of mangled wreckage, lay the scattered possessions of the victims: suitcases torn open, passports, books, children's toys.
OSCE monitors escorted by armed rebels appeared Sunday to be granted greater freedom to examine the site, with investigators from the Netherlands set to arrive in Donetsk.
Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte -- his shocked nation flying flags at half mast in mourning over 192 lost compatriots -- urged Putin during a "very intense" call to "take responsibility" for a credible probe.
Across the globe relatives in the dozen countries whose citizens were killed when the Boeing 777 disintegrated as it flew from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur pleaded for them to be brought home.
"At this current moment I hope the world can assist the families to bring back the remains," Zulkifli Abdul Rahman, brother-in-law of one of the cabin crew, told AFP in Kuala Lumpur.
Ukraine accuses Russia of helping the gun-toting militias of hiding and destroying vital evidence that could prove their alleged involvement in the downing of the jet.
But top Russian officials and Moscow's state media have suggested that Kiev's new leaders staged the attack to blame the rebels and convince their Western allies to deploy troops and help seal Ukraine's porous border with its giant eastern neighbour.
The United States has called for "material evidence, including black boxes" to be handed over to international inspectors so they could take immediate charge of an independent probe, voicing concerns the removal of evidence from the scene.
But Putin firmly denies exerting any control over the uprising and a top rebel commander sent an email to the media on Sunday saying they would only accede to the demands if Kiev agrees to a truce to end months of fighting in the east.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, who won a May election following the ouster of a Kremlin-backed regime, ripped up a shaky ceasefire on July 1 and has refused to announce a new one until the separatists give up their arms.
Poroshenko spent much of the day Saturday pressing world leaders to recognise the militias as a terrorist organisation that should be put on trial at the International Criminal Court in The Hague.
He told French President Francois Hollande that the downing near Ukraine's Russian border of flight MH17 was similar to such atrocities as the 2001 attacks on the United States.
"We see no difference between the events in Ukraine and what happened on September 11 in the United States or the tragedy over Scotland's Lockerbie," Poroshenko said in reference to the 1988 bombing for Pan Am Flight 103 that claimed nearly 300 lives.
The MH17 disaster came less than a day after the United States unleashed punishing sanctions against some of Russia's most biggest military firms -- most of them with links to Putin -- and urged more hesitant European leaders to follow suit.
The European Union -- many of its member states dependent on Russian gas -- took the far less punitive step Friday of curbing some future investments in Russia and leaving the option open for broader sanctions.
But British Prime Minister David Cameron raised the prospect of fresh EU sanctions against Russia over the Malaysian plane crash, saying the West must "fundamentally change our approach" unless Moscow alters course in Ukraine.
"Russia can use this moment to find a path out of this festering, dangerous crisis. I hope it will do so. But if that does not happen then we must respond robustly," he wrote in the Sunday Times.
Cameron said confirmation of the plane being blown out of the sky at 33,000 feet (10,000) metres by a surface-to-air missile fired from an area held by the rebels would place the responsibility firmly on Russia.
"If it is the case, then we must be clear what it means: this is a direct result of Russia destabilising a sovereign state, violating its territorial integrity, backing thuggish militias, and training and arming them," Cameron wrote.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 14:16
Jola
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LazyLion
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UKRAINE REBELS SAY HAVE MATERIAL 'RESEMBLING' MH17 BLACK BOXES
Pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine said Sunday they had recovered objects which appear to be the black boxes of downed Malaysian airliner MH17 and are willing to hand them over to international investigators.
"Jet parts resembling the black boxes were discovered at the crash site," said Alexander Borodai, prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, adding that they would be handed over to "international experts if they arrive".
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 14:29
Pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine said Sunday they had recovered objects which appear to be the black boxes of downed Malaysian airliner MH17 and are willing to hand them over to international investigators.
"Jet parts resembling the black boxes were discovered at the crash site," said Alexander Borodai, prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, adding that they would be handed over to "international experts if they arrive".
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 14:29
Bar0n
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Do you have any evidence of state propaganda, at this moment?
Jola
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Newspapers and internet have been full of it, just look.
If you have not seen these reports then you are blind, many have been mentioned in this thread. Read.
Examples would be the comments from the Russian state-controlled media that Ukrainian government missiles were responsible, and that a Ukrainian air-to-air missile was responsible. They have been coming out with any rubbish story that they could think of to deflect responsibility away from where it belongs.
They even came out with some cock&bull story that it was the Ukrainians because they mistook the blue&red on the Malaysian plane for Putin's personal jet.
As a result most Russians do not believe that Putin is responsible.
He is.
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LazyLion
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'SANCTIONS' THREAT FOR RUSSIA OVER MH17 CRASH SITE ACCESS
France, Britain and Germany warned Russia Sunday it could face further EU sanctions if it did not press pro-Kremlin separatists in Ukraine to allow unfettered access to the crash site of flight MH17.
Francois Hollande, Angela Merkel and David Cameron held a conference call Sunday morning to discuss the situation in eastern Ukraine days after a Malaysia Airlines jet crashed, killing 298 people on board after what is believed to have been a strike by a surface-to-air missile.
Concerns have been mounting that the separatists are blocking access to key evidence and to the bodies of the passengers, scores of which were moved from the crash site by train on Sunday.
"They... agreed that the EU must reconsider its approach to Russia and that foreign ministers should be ready to impose further sanctions on Russia when they meet on Tuesday," a spokesman for Downing Street said in a statement, adding that Cameron was due to speak to his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin later Sunday.
A French presidency statement about the three-way conference call similarly warned that "consequences" would be drawn at Tuesday's meeting "if Russia does not immediately take the necessary measures."
The presidency said the three leaders had agreed to call on Putin to pressure the rebels into allowing rescuers and investigators "free and total access to the site of the MH17 flight disaster to accomplish their mission."
"Russia must understand that resolving the Ukrainian crisis is more than ever an imperative after this tragedy which has outraged the entire world," it added.
Cameron had already raised the prospect of fresh EU sanctions against Russia, warning in the Sunday Times that Moscow should be held accountable if it was confirmed that MH17 was downed by a missile fired from an area held by pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine.
The European Union has so far hit 72 Ukraine and Russian figures with travel bans and asset freezes over the crisis, but divisions over how far to go given some member states' close economic ties with Russia has left Brussels trailing Washington which wants the bloc to do much more.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 14:34
France, Britain and Germany warned Russia Sunday it could face further EU sanctions if it did not press pro-Kremlin separatists in Ukraine to allow unfettered access to the crash site of flight MH17.
Francois Hollande, Angela Merkel and David Cameron held a conference call Sunday morning to discuss the situation in eastern Ukraine days after a Malaysia Airlines jet crashed, killing 298 people on board after what is believed to have been a strike by a surface-to-air missile.
Concerns have been mounting that the separatists are blocking access to key evidence and to the bodies of the passengers, scores of which were moved from the crash site by train on Sunday.
"They... agreed that the EU must reconsider its approach to Russia and that foreign ministers should be ready to impose further sanctions on Russia when they meet on Tuesday," a spokesman for Downing Street said in a statement, adding that Cameron was due to speak to his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin later Sunday.
A French presidency statement about the three-way conference call similarly warned that "consequences" would be drawn at Tuesday's meeting "if Russia does not immediately take the necessary measures."
The presidency said the three leaders had agreed to call on Putin to pressure the rebels into allowing rescuers and investigators "free and total access to the site of the MH17 flight disaster to accomplish their mission."
"Russia must understand that resolving the Ukrainian crisis is more than ever an imperative after this tragedy which has outraged the entire world," it added.
Cameron had already raised the prospect of fresh EU sanctions against Russia, warning in the Sunday Times that Moscow should be held accountable if it was confirmed that MH17 was downed by a missile fired from an area held by pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine.
The European Union has so far hit 72 Ukraine and Russian figures with travel bans and asset freezes over the crisis, but divisions over how far to go given some member states' close economic ties with Russia has left Brussels trailing Washington which wants the bloc to do much more.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 20 Jul 2014 14:34
chrisc
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Unhappy438
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95% of people in Russia get their news from the television, those who have access to the internet and other outside media are aware of whats really happening. Lots of people in the big cities like Moscow are fully aware of the problems in their country, they had massive protests there a few years ago because of the fraudulent elections. Its similar to South Africa in a sense, a lot of us know how bad the ANC is but the masses keep on voting for them.
Unhappy438
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There are sites dedicated to debunking Russian propaganda, just the other day i posted a list of top 80 Russian media lies debunked, here is the link - http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-80-lies-about-ukraine
Just this last week Russian media ran this story: http://news.yahoo.com/russian-tv-sparks-outrage-ukraine-child-crucifixion-claim-114839196.html
Polymathic
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There is a vast difference between holding your breath and having all the air in your lungs expel all at once due to the sudden drop in air pressure
Jola
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Polymathic
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[video=youtube;UBqaW4Ns49I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBqaW4Ns49I[/video]
Unhappy438
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I believe this video was taken two days ago. This is also interesting
[video=youtube;9ff_LTlZZI8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ff_LTlZZI8[/video]
Regarding the previous taped phone calls, rebels have admitted that it was them talking but they claim that they were talking about another plane 100Kms away. So it does seem that Ukraine has the ability to intercept their communication.
Here is the rebels admittance that the voices are authentic: http://lenta.ru/news/2014/07/18/bezler/
Seriously
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AthenianOwl
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Please somebody kill Putin
I ****ing hate this SOB! Hope this worthless earthworm dies slowly and painfully!
Seriously
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Yeah, I cannot understand why I held him in high regard previously. A devil in disguise he seems to be!Please somebody kill Putin