Malicious CCMA case

[Travincal]

Good morning everyone

I need some information regarding a rather peculiar case that has been opened at the CCMA against my mother. I'm not really sure how to proceed with the matter and need some info.

Background: My mother crossed paths with a guy in 2012. At the time he came with a very long sob story which of course my mother believed.
Being the good-hearted, naïve person that she is, she took him with the understanding that it would be temporary. He was supposed to start a new job in PTA and had no place to go.
Only, that never realized.
While he had been living there for free, he helped my mother with chores around the smallholding.
Fast forward to 2018, it turns out while we have been trying to get job leads for him, he simply turned down all the interviews.

Long story short, I told him that our patience is spent, He has 3 months to get his **** together and leave.
He was gone the next day.

Last week, surprise, surprise, we received a sms that we need to appear at the CCMA for a "con/arb". Received the letter this weekend, it's regarding dismissal - reason unknown.

We called the CCMA to inform them that it is an obviously frivolous case. The call-center staff was useless as expected and simply said that we need to attend.
Is there an easier way to handle this situation?

Regards

 

[LazyLion]

Most companies use an Employer's organisation like CEO or NEASA to fight their CCMA battles for them.

 

[SA-UK]

What exactly does the letter say,it should be a LRA Form 7.11 completed and signed by the referring party..

Can't advise unless you more specific about the dispute.

 

[Travincal]

It says that we need to attend a "con/arb" for a dismissal - unknown.
No other information, the guy is/was never an employee. We were trying to help him out.

 

[SA-UK]

It says that we need to attend a "con/arb" for a dismissal - unknown.
No other information, the guy is/was never an employee. We were trying to help him out.

He needs to have furnished proof to the CCMA that he has sent (via email, fax, registered post or in person.) the form to both your mother and the CCMA before they would open a dispute case. I know the procedure. It's a prerequisite to receiving a con-arb date

You claim you received nothing.
I've just detailed you the process above.

 

[Tman*]

What exactly does the letter say,it should be a LRA Form 7.11 completed and signed by the referring party..

Can't advise unless you more specific about the dispute.

^ you should receive the LRA by registered mail (I've also heard it being sent via email).

Irrespective if you manage to get more info, what ever you do, dont ignore it. Gather as much evidence as possible and go to the hearing see present your case.

From what you explain, it sounds like he was working on the small holding from 2012 to 2018? You fail to mention if he received any payment for the jobs that he did, other than free accommodation? If he was receiving payment, I hope you paid UIF as well as gave him payslips to prove such?

The "you have 3 months to get your **** together" doesn't really serve as a retrenchment letter of sorts, maybe a verbal warning. He will most probably say it was a constructive dismissal, which is very hard to prove.

 

[Travincal]

He sent a letter via registered post, we received both (from him and CCMA) at the same time.

He is/was never an employee. He came and went as he pleased. 90% of the time he was planted in front of the tv.

We didn't pay him anything, he helped with chores around the house when it suited him.
My mother took pity on and wanted to help him get back on his feet.

 

[SA-UK]

He sent a letter via registered post, we received both at the same time.

I said form not letter.

LRA Form 7.11

 

[Travincal]

I said form not letter.

LRA Form 7.11

We received the 7.11 via registered post.

 

[SA-UK]

We received the 7.11 via registered post.

and what was the detail in section 3. to 8. ?

you come across as being very cagey...



3. NATURE OF THE DISPUTE

What is the dispute about (tick only one box)?

 Refusal to Bargain  Mutual Interest
 Severance Pay  Organisational Rights
 Unfair Labour Practice  Disclosure of Information
 Freedom of Association  S80 BCEA
 Unfair Discrimination - S10 EEA  S19 SDA
 Interpretation/Application of Collective Agreement
 Unilateral Changes to Terms and Conditions of Employment
 Dismissal
 Other ……………………………………………………………………..

If it is an unfair dismissal dispute, tick the relevant box

 Misconduct  Incapacity
 Unknown Reasons  Constructive Dismissal
 Poor Work Performance  Dismissal relates to Probation
 Operational Requirements (Retrenchments)

 where I was the only employee dismissed
 where the employer employs less than ten (10) employees
 Other ………………………………………………………………

4. SUMMARISE THE FACTS OF THE DISPUTE (Use additional paper if necessary)
………………………………………………………………………………………
………
5. DATE AND WHERE DISPUTE AROSE:

The dispute arose on:

(give the date, day, month and year)


The dispute arose where:

(give the city/town in which the dispute arose)

6. DATE OF DISMISSAL (if applicable)

7. FAIRNESS/UNFAIRNESS OF DISMISSAL (if applicable)
(a) Procedural Issues
Was the dismissal procedurally unfair? Yes No
If yes, why?

……

(b) Substantive Issues
Was the reason for the dismissal unfair? Yes No
If yes, why
……………………………………………………………………

……
8. RESULT REQUIRED
1. Personal apology from both parties, not on behalf of the companies
2.Financial restitution – to max what the law allows ( 3 to 6 months full pay or until I am able to find gainful employment )

 

[LazyLion]

So you are going to complete an affidavit that by both you and your mother that this man was never an employee.
He must provide some kind of proof that a contract of employment was entered into.
Any other correspondence you guys have might help your case.
If he can't provide an employment contract as proof, then he should show payments coming into his bank account or receipt of Cash.
Also ask him what his salary amount was, chances are he has no idea.

 

[Travincal]

and what was the detail in section 3. to 8. ?

you come across as being very cagey...



3. NATURE OF THE DISPUTE

What is the dispute about (tick only one box)?

 Refusal to Bargain  Mutual Interest
 Severance Pay  Organisational Rights
 Unfair Labour Practice  Disclosure of Information
 Freedom of Association  S80 BCEA
 Unfair Discrimination - S10 EEA  S19 SDA
 Interpretation/Application of Collective Agreement
 Unilateral Changes to Terms and Conditions of Employment
 Dismissal
 Other ……………………………………………………………………..

If it is an unfair dismissal dispute, tick the relevant box

 Misconduct  Incapacity
 Unknown Reasons  Constructive Dismissal
 Poor Work Performance  Dismissal relates to Probation
 Operational Requirements (Retrenchments)

 where I was the only employee dismissed
 where the employer employs less than ten (10) employees
 Other ………………………………………………………………

4. SUMMARISE THE FACTS OF THE DISPUTE (Use additional paper if necessary)
………………………………………………………………………………………
………
5. DATE AND WHERE DISPUTE AROSE:

The dispute arose on:

(give the date, day, month and year)


The dispute arose where:

(give the city/town in which the dispute arose)

6. DATE OF DISMISSAL (if applicable)

7. FAIRNESS/UNFAIRNESS OF DISMISSAL (if applicable)
(a) Procedural Issues
Was the dismissal procedurally unfair? Yes No
If yes, why?

……

(b) Substantive Issues
Was the reason for the dismissal unfair? Yes No
If yes, why
……………………………………………………………………

……
8. RESULT REQUIRED
1. Personal apology from both parties, not on behalf of the companies
2.Financial restitution – to max what the law allows ( 3 to 6 months full pay or until I am able to find gainful employment )

I don't have the form with me at the moment.

It was ticked as a dismissal with reasons unknown.
A date and time was given no other information is given.

 

[Freshy-ZN]

If no money was paid and no contract was entered into, even if it was work for board and lodgings then where is the employment?

 

[The_Librarian]

A case of sour grapes? Or malicious intent, hoping to gief grief to somebody just because?

Hope OP's mother learnt her lesson - nothing without a contract stipulating everything from A to ZZZ, finish en klaar.

 

[Freshy-ZN]

Love to see the CCMA Commissioner's stance on this. Assuming there are no other 'facts' that we have not been made aware of.

 

[^^vampire^^]

A case of sour grapes? Or malicious intent, hoping to gief grief to somebody just because?

Hope OP's mother learnt her lesson - nothing without a contract stipulating everything from A to ZZZ, finish en klaar.

There didn't need to be a contract, she was taking pity on someone and housing them while they tried to get work. If anything the lesson should be don't help anyone, ever.

My gripe is that there should be some kind of recourse for people that get taken to the CCMA willy nilly. Every Tom, Dick and Harry has to waste time, money and resources because they all get taken to the CCMA because someones uncle's cousins sister said they can get free money doing that.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Love to see the CCMA Commissioner's stance on this. Assuming there are no other 'facts' that we have not been made aware of.

He/she will tell the claimant to fuk-off. These BS CCMA claims is so disruptive and causes unnecessary stress to people that haven't been taken to the CCMA before.

The burden of proof lies with the claimant, not "defendant". No contract or payslips = no claim.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

My gripe is that there should be some kind of recourse for people that get taken to the CCMA willy nilly. Every Tom, Dick and Harry has to waste time, money and resources because they all get taken to the CCMA because someones uncle's cousins sister said they can get free money doing that.

Exactly this.

 

[WaxLyrical]

He sent a letter via registered post, we received both (from him and CCMA) at the same time.

He is/was never an employee. He came and went as he pleased. 90% of the time he was planted in front of the tv.

We didn't pay him anything, he helped with chores around the house when it suited him.
My mother took pity on and wanted to help him get back on his feet.

Freely gained access to your property but not an employee. So he was an intruder?
Sorry but not following proper protocol regarding the employment of people will result in a run in with the CCMA.

Attend the meeting and pay what is negotiated. Use this as a lesson/education for the future.

 

[AstroTurf]

Freely gained access to your property but not an employee. So he was an intruder?
Sorry but not following proper protocol regarding the employment of people will result in a run in with the CCMA.

Attend the meeting and pay what is negotiated. Use this as a lesson/education for the future.

Sounds like a guest to me...