Mass shooting in Dayton Ohio - Sunday, 4 August 2019

Gingerbeardman

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That FBI report said 25% of the shooters had a mental illness.

100% of the shooters had firearms.
The report doesn't explain what constitutes a mental illness. I'm willing to bet number of mass shooters on SSRIs is way above 25%.

And since you wanna play statistics, hammers kill more people in America than guns, so ban hammers. But of course, nobody is seriously gonna suggest that, which is what gives away the political motivations that lie behind the facade of wanting to do the right thing. :sneaky:
 

Jabulani22

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That FBI report said 25% of the shooters had a mental illness.

100% of the shooters had firearms.


Your ‘the vast majority’ is a tell, and most of your post is a ridiculous ‘whatabout’... The vast majority of us don’t shoot up schools.
The vast majority of us don’t drive cars into crowds. There’s a lot of things the vast majority of us *don’t* do.

We’re not talking vast majorities here ‘tho, are we? We’re talking mass shooters.

The FBI report said the vast majority of shooters don’t have a mental illness...

... you’re still here saying they’re all mentally ill.

Post your sources Jabulani. Your say-so doesn’t cut it.
Your argument is that 100% of mass SHOOTERS used guns ? shocking ,do 100% of terrorist VEHICLE attacks use vehicles ? take a step back and look at what you wrote .
You are saying people that kill people with guns or whatever other means are not necessarily mentally ill , are you really saying its mentally healthy people that wake up and decide to kill ?
They are mentally ill by example of the many millions worldwide with access to firearms every single day who do not go out and kill.
Do the FBI account for shooters who offed themselves ? do they show you what margins they use to diagnose mental illness ? doubtful that even if they did that they would be honest with the public about them.
 

greg0205

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The report doesn't explain what constitutes a mental illness. I'm willing to bet number of mass shooters on SSRIs is way above 25%.

And since you wanna play statistics, hammers kill more people in America than guns, so ban hammers. But of course, nobody is seriously gonna suggest that, which is what gives away the political motivations that lie behind the facade of wanting to do the right thing. :sneaky:
I can think of a couple of uses for a hammer... How many uses can you think of for a gun?

Also, it’s unsurprising that someone who thinks a head-shot is a remedy for immigration can’t see beyond politics as a reason to manage firearms better.
 

Jabulani22

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I can think of a couple of uses for a hammer... How many uses can you think of for a gun?

Also, it’s unsurprising that someone who thinks a head-shot is a remedy for immigration can’t see beyond politics as a reason to manage firearms better.
Firearms are made for a variety of reasons , not limited to self defense/hunting/sport and just sheer beauty of the crftsman's work .
Hammers are made for hitting nails.
Anti logic isnt always anti gun but anti gun is always anti logic.
 

greg0205

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Your argument is that 100% of mass SHOOTERS used guns ? shocking ,do 100% of terrorist VEHICLE attacks use vehicles ? take a step back and look at what you wrote .
You are saying people that kill people with guns or whatever other means are not necessarily mentally ill , are you really saying its mentally healthy people that wake up and decide to kill ?
They are mentally ill by example of the many millions worldwide with access to firearms every single day who do not go out and kill.
Do the FBI account for shooters who offed themselves ? do they show you what margins they use to diagnose mental illness ? doubtful that even if they did that they would be honest with the public about them.
It’s not just me saying mentally healthy folk get up and kill folk... Actual doctors and the FBI are too. I posted more than one link brother, you’ve chosen to fixate on the FBI one... Ya want I should post more from... not... the FBI?

I’ve already provided sources. Happy to post more...

You, not so much.
 

greg0205

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Firearms are made for a variety of reasons , not limited to self defense/hunting/sport and just sheer beauty of the crftsman's work .
Hammers are made for hitting nails.
Anti logic isnt always anti gun but anti gun is always anti logic.
Perhaps you should trawl this forum for post where I’ve called for the banning of all guns... When you figure out where I stand, let’s talk.
 

Jabulani22

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It’s not just me saying mentally healthy folk get up and kill folk... Actual doctors and the FBI are too. I posted more than one link brother, you’ve chosen to fixate on the FBI one... Ya want I should post more from... not... the FBI?

I’ve already provided sources. Happy to post more...

You, not so much.
Nobody needs cherry picked studies stating 100% of mass shooters use firearms ,you focussed on the FBI one when you alleged that they would have not had outside interference from big pharma. companies , fact is and nobody can dispute it , if you are killing people in this day and age and you are not doing so to defend yourself or loved ones/public then you are mentally ill.
 

greg0205

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Nobody needs cherry picked studies stating 100% of mass shooters use firearms ,you focussed on the FBI one when you alleged that they would have not had outside interference from big pharma. companies , fact is and nobody can dispute it , if you are killing people in this day and age and you are not doing so to defend yourself or loved ones/public then you are mentally ill.
Cherry pick me a study that says all shooters are mentally ill.

Post it here.
 

Jabulani22

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Perhaps you should trawl this forum for post where I’ve called for the banning of all guns... When you figure out where I stand, let’s talk.
Your posts reek of anti gun nonsense , so either you are anti gun or you are just a huge supporter of mental illness not being a motivating factor.Im not saying you are on the payroll for some big pharma. company but im not ruling out that you have an irrational fear of guns and or mental illness being in the same discussion , i gotthat last part from the cheap trick you used by trying to lump video games into my argument.
 

Gingerbeardman

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I can think of a couple of uses for a hammer... How many uses can you think of for a gun?
Self-defence and hunting are both ways in which a gun works as a valuable tool.

Also, it’s unsurprising that someone who thinks a head-shot is a remedy for immigration can’t see beyond politics as a reason to manage firearms better.
It's unsurprising that someone who thinks that outlawing violence is somehow going to solve the problem of violence would be reduced to arguing his point by way of stupidities.
 

Jabulani22

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Cherry pick me a study that says all shooters are mentally ill.

Post it here.
I dont cherry pick , also once Trump has spoken on a subject then the sjw bury every piece of fact with countless blogs of drivel as do most "trusted" sources.
Its as easy as you saying , a person can be mentally healthy and decide to murder others by use of a gun and once they complete this they are still mentally healthy. go on say it and i will accept defeat.
 

Gingerbeardman

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Cherry pick me a study that says all shooters are mentally ill.

Post it here.
Rather curiously, there do not appear to be any studies regarding the prevalence of SSRIs and similar anti-depressants among mass shooters.

It wouldn't be one of those things nobody wants to look at because the outcome might fsck with a multi-billion Dollar industry seeing as how 18% of Americans are on such drugs these days, would it? :sneaky:
 

greg0205

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Your posts reek of anti gun nonsense , so either you are anti gun or you are just a huge supporter of mental illness not being a motivating factor.Im not saying you are on the payroll for some big pharma. company but im not ruling out that you have an irrational fear of guns and or mental illness being in the same discussion , i gotthat last part from the cheap trick you used by trying to lump video games into my argument.
I’m for *not* approaching a problem like gun violence with preconceived ideas that can’t be modified when new information becomes available.

Also, if you’re not too lazy to do your homework, perhaps start at post #45 in the El Paso thread. Then hit the google machine for that cherry picked study...

I’ll be here when you get back.
 

greg0205

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Rather curiously, there do not appear to be any studies regarding the prevalence of SSRIs and similar anti-depressants among mass shooters.

It wouldn't be one of those things nobody wants to look at because the outcome might fsck with a multi-billion Dollar industry seeing as how 18% of Americans are on such drugs these days, would it? :sneaky:
Here’s the thing...

If or when there are studies, they *should* be part of the conversation.

Also, if you think I’ll be putting up my hand to defend big pharma, you’re forgetting that I’m a liberal, and we like government to protect folk from corporations.
 

Gingerbeardman

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Here’s the thing...

If and when there are studies, they *should* be part of the conversation.
No, here's the thing, you don't get to thought police conversations because of a misguided appeal to expertise when the experts are for the most part bought and paid for by institutional interests.

Also, if you think I’ll be putting up my hand to defend big pharma, you’re forgetting that I’m a liberal, and we like government to protect folk from corporations.
A useful idiot by any other name is just as useful.
 

Jabulani22

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I’m for *not* approaching a problem like gun violence with preconceived ideas that can’t be modified when new information becomes available.

Also, if you’re not too lazy to do your homework, perhaps start at post #45 in the El Paso thread. Then hit the google machine for that cherry picked study...

I’ll be here when you get back.
So you wont say it then ? that means you lack belief in what you have said , i understand though , your comment that 100% of mass shooters use a gun , comedy gold.
I see you intentionally not responding to points and im going to have to say 3/10 , see me after class.
You can do better than the beratement of opinions on the net by giving instruction and calling names.
 

greg0205

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No, here's the thing, you don't get to thought police conversations because of a misguided appeal to expertise when the experts are for the most part bought and paid for by institutional interests.


A useful idiot by any other name is just as useful.
Your opinion outweighs expert opinion ‘cos you say so...

As it ever was with you, GBM. As it ever was.
 

Gingerbeardman

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Your opinion outweighs expert opinion ‘cos you say so...

As it ever was with you, GBM. As it ever was.
Again, your cited studies did not define mental illness. It's not obvious what criteria they are using to define that, particularly when I think it's plausible that the FBI is talking about mental illnesses that have criminal relevance such as grounds for arguing diminshed capacity in a trial and so on.

I did point out to a lack of such studies, which means that there is no conclusive way one way or another. Feel free to prove me wrong by pointing to a study that looks at mass shooters and SSRI usage.

But what I can tell you is that there have been studies that show that lobsters have been deranged because of the SSRIs humans piss out into the water supply to the point where they'll drastically misjudge their odds of success at the opponent they pick a fight with. Given that serotonin's neurochemical function is so old that it is found in single-celled organisms, and that our brains and lobster brains use serotonin in the same way to track social status and so forth, is it really that farfetched to conclude that maybe the same mechanism is causing people on SSRIs to lose grip on reality to the point where they think that a dramatic exhibition of violence will solve all their problems?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/7/100715-shrimp-prozac-antidepressants-environment-science/

https://www.pnas.org/content/94/11/5939

But hey, you're so superior because you get told exactly what to think by experts and don't need to think for yourself at all, amirite? :sneaky:
 

greg0205

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So you wont say it then ? that means you lack belief in what you have said , i understand though , your comment that 100% of mass shooters use a gun , comedy gold.
I see you intentionally not responding to points and im going to have to say 3/10 , see me after class.
You can do better than the beratement of opinions on the net by giving instruction and calling names.
Your, “a person can be mentally healthy and decide to murder others” thing?

Riddle me this Jabulani... How is it that folk who use insanity as a defense for murder get convicted? By your logic all shooters are mentally ill and should be committed, not incarcerated.

Is a moment of rage a mental illness? Y’all think Oscar was or still is mentally ill?
 

greg0205

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Again, your cited studies did not define mental illness. It's not obvious what criteria they are using to define that, particularly when I think it's plausible that the FBI is talking about mental illnesses that have criminal relevance such as grounds for arguing diminshed capacity in a trial and so on.

I did point out to a lack of such studies, which means that there is no conclusive way one way or another. Feel free to prove me wrong by pointing to a study that looks at mass shooters and SSRI usage.

But what I can tell you is that there have been studies that show that lobsters have been deranged because of the SSRIs humans piss out into the water supply to the point where they'll drastically misjudge their odds of success at the opponent they pick a fight with. Given that serotonin's neurochemical function is so old that it is found in single-celled organisms, and that our brains and lobster brains use serotonin in the same way to track social status and so forth, is it really that farfetched to conclude that maybe the same mechanism is causing people on SSRIs to lose grip on reality to the point where they think that a dramatic exhibition of violence will solve all their problems?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/7/100715-shrimp-prozac-antidepressants-environment-science/

https://www.pnas.org/content/94/11/5939

But hey, you're so superior because you get told exactly what to think by experts and don't need to think for yourself at all, amirite? :sneaky:
Right I-Think-For-Myself man... What’s your solution for gun violence in the States?

Careful now, don’t parrot law enforcement or medical health professionals, ‘cos that’s a bad thing, amirite?

Off you go...
 
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