Mass shooting in Dayton Ohio - Sunday, 4 August 2019

Jabulani22

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Your, “a person can be mentally healthy and decide to murder others” thing?

Riddle me this Jabulani... How is it that folk who use insanity as a defense for murder get convicted? By your logic all shooters are mentally ill and should be committed, not incarcerated.

Is a moment of rage a mental illness? Y’all think Oscar was or still is mentally ill?
Most use it to be commited and not incarcerated.
Not an argument.
I never said mass shootings or mental illness should absolve you of punishment , you said you were liberal to GBMearlier , i didnt know you were nu-liberal.
 

Jabulani22

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Right I-Think-For-Myself man... What’s your solution for gun violence in the States?

Careful now, don’t parrot law enforcement or medical health professionals, ‘cos that’s a bad thing, amirite?

Off you go...
I never said i had a solution but if i were to channel my inner American............SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED , you should stop calling people names on the internet , just now someone might mistake you for an internet tough guy , either that or they may think you never developed past the name calling phase in life which was at about age 4 .
 

greg0205

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Most use it to be commited and not incarcerated.
Not an argument.
I never said mass shootings or mental illness should absolve you of punishment , you said you were liberal to GBMearlier , i didnt know you were nu-liberal.
Exactly! Committed not incarcerated because committed is easier, and folk aren’t crazy.

It is an argument if your contention is that average Bob can’t lose his temper, fire a gun and be average Bob after.

It is an argument if juries in the States and judges here find folk guilty precisely because they were sane at the time of a shooting.
 

Gingerbeardman

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Right I-Think-For-Myself man... What’s your solution for gun violence in the States?

Careful now, don’t parrot law enforcement or medical health professionals, ‘cos that’s a bad thing, amirite?

Off you go...
I'm not opposed to the idea of bringing about a reasonable amount of regulation that allows the 2nd amendment to remain viable with respect to the purpose it was supposed to serve. Believe it or not, I do think the prevalence of small arms is enough to prevent the government from governing via the application of violence for the simple reason that a government cannot afford to destroy its own economy simply for the purposes of maintaining power, so any amount of lethal force that prevents a police force from operating is enough to keep the 2nd amendment relevant. Outlawing semi-auto weapons would be a non-starter to my mind, although the laws against full-auto I think can be maintained.

So like I've been saying, my actual approach would be to reduce the prevalence of SSRIs among the population, with a view to establishing just how much more prone they make individuals to irrational expressions of violence.

But beyond that, I don't actually think there is much you can do to stop mass shootings from a political perspective. The actual solutions have to be economic and cultural. But saying something like that is heresy these days, so ya. Either way, I'm not about to delude myself into thinking that we can solve all problems by somehow giving absolute authority to the state.
 

greg0205

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I never said i had a solution but if i were to channel my inner American............SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED , you should stop calling people names on the internet , just now someone might mistake you for an internet tough guy , either that or they may think you never developed past the name calling phase in life which was at about age 4 .
Which “well regulated militia” do you belong to?
 

Jabulani22

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Exactly! Committed not incarcerated because committed is easier, and folk aren’t crazy.

It is an argument if your contention is that average Bob can’t lose his temper, fire a gun and be average Bob after.

It is an argument if juries in the States and judges here find folk guilty precisely because they were sane at the time of a shooting.
I said mental illness and mass shootings , i never said rage did i ?
Try again.
Here is a tip , people try the insanity defense because you dont get put in with general population in prison , see why courts are so wary of guys trying to say they are crazy ?
 

greg0205

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I'm not opposed to the idea of bringing about a reasonable amount of regulation that allows the 2nd amendment to remain viable with respect to the purpose it was supposed to serve. Believe it or not, I do think the prevalence of small arms is enough to prevent the government from governing via the application of violence for the simple reason that a government cannot afford to destroy its own economy simply for the purposes of maintaining power, so any amount of lethal force that prevents a police force from operating is enough to keep the 2nd amendment relevant. Outlawing semi-auto weapons would be a non-starter to my mind, although the laws against full-auto I think can be maintained.

So like I've been saying, my actual approach would be to reduce the prevalence of SSRIs among the population, with a view to establishing just how much more prone they make individuals to irrational expressions of violence.

But beyond that, I don't actually think there is much you can do to stop mass shootings from a political perspective. The actual solutions have to be economic and cultural. But saying something like that is heresy these days, so ya. Either way, I'm not about to delude myself into thinking that we can solve all problems by somehow giving absolute authority to the state.
I know you won’t like to hear it but for the most part we’re pretty close on the 2A... And you’ll need to sit down for this, but I’ve never called for a banning of semiautomatics.

Still, I’ll always think it’s foolish for folk to imagine that having an AR-15 protects them from a drone strike.

Also, culture is shifting. A vast majority of Americans want sensible gun laws.

Sensible

Gun

Laws

Not no guns at all. Sensible laws.



PS. Would also help if Republicans stopped trying to kill healthcare.
 

Jabulani22

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I know you won’t like to hear it but for the most part we’re pretty close on the 2A... And you’ll need to sit down for this, but I’ve never called for a banning of semiautomatics.

Still, I’ll always think it’s foolish for folk to imagine that having an AR-15s protects them from a drone strike.

Also, culture is shifting. A vast majority of Americans want sensible gun laws.

Sensible

Gun

Laws

Not no guns at all. Sensible laws.



PS. Would also help if Republicans stopped trying to kill healthcare.
Drones dont hold street corners and ask for papers at curfew , they have their place but not in enforcement of communities.
They can have an ar 15 because they are allowed to under their constitution and changing it now by political means would be akin to the EWC debate in SA.
The culture has not shifted , the media is saying it has , most of the "common sense" gun laws were enacted during Bill Clintons time and even that was too severe for the 2A ,a ban on a semiauto is infact a ban on any firearm besides a musket style or maybe flintlock, see how i know you are uninformed ?
 

Gingerbeardman

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I know you won’t like to hear it but for the most part we’re pretty close on the 2A... And you’ll need to sit down for this, but I’ve never called for a banning of semiautomatics.

Still, I’ll always think it’s foolish for folk to imagine that having an AR-15s protects them from a drone strike.
You're not going to police a country with drone strikes. A well-regulated militia will always stop a police force from enforcing the law, that much is enough to protect the citizens from the state to the degree foreseen by the people who crafted the constitution in the first place.

BREAKING : Holy f'k. Seventy- two killed resisting gun confiscation in Boston.

National Guard units seeking to confiscate a cache of recently banned assault weapons were ambushed by elements of a Para-military extremist faction.
Military and law enforcement sources estimate that 72 were killed and more than 200 injured before government forces were compelled to withdraw.
Speaking after the clash, Governor Thomas Gage declared that the extremist faction, which was made up of local citizens,
has links to the radical right-wing tax protest movement.
Gage blamed the extremists for recent incidents of vandalism directed against internal revenue offices. The governor, who described the group’s organizers as “criminals,” just issued an executive order authorizing the
summary arrest of any individual who has interfered with the government’s efforts to secure law and order.
The military raid on the extremist arsenal followed wide-spread refusal by the local citizenry to turn over recently outlawed assault weapons.
Gage issued a ban on military-style assault weapons and ammunition earlier in the week. This decision followed a meeting in early this month between government and military leaders at which the governor authorized the forcible confiscation of illegal arms.
One government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, pointed out that “none of these people would have been killed had the extremists obeyed the law and turned over their weapons voluntarily.”
Government troops initially succeeded in confiscating a large supply of
outlawed weapons and ammunition. However, troops attempting to seize arms and ammunition in Lexington met with resistance from heavily-armed extremists who had been tipped off regarding the government’s plans.
During a tense standoff in the Lexington town park, National Guard
Colonel Francis Smith, commander of the government operation, ordered the armed group to surrender and return to their homes. The impasse was broken by a single shot, which was reportedly fired by one of the right-wing extremists.
Eight civilians were killed in the ensuing exchange.
Ironically, the local citizenry blamed government forces rather than the extremists for the civilian deaths. Before order could be restored, armed citizens from surrounding areas had descended upon the guard units.
Colonel Smith, finding his forces over matched by the armed mob, ordered a retreat.
Governor Gage has called upon citizens to support the state/national joint task force in its effort to restore law and order.
The governor also demanded the surrender of those responsible for planning and leading the attack against the government troops.
Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, and John Hancock, who have been identified as “ringleaders” of the extremist faction, remain at large.
And this fellow Americans, is how the American Revolution began, April 20, 1775.

On July 4th, 1776 these same "extremists" as Bill Mitchell calls them, signed the Declaration of Independence, pledging to each other and their countrymen their lives, fortunes, & sacred honor. Many of them lost everything, over the course of the next few years. Lest we forget..
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1160022554502938627.html


Also, culture is shifting. A vast majority of Americans want sensible gun laws.

Sensible

Gun

Laws

Not no guns at all. Sensible laws.
Again, I'm not opposed to reasonable regulations, whatever that means, what I am opposed to is writing regulations in such a way that together the restrictions give the state a defacto means to render the 2nd amendment moot.
 

greg0205

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Drones dont hold street corners and ask for papers at curfew , they have their place but not in enforcement of communities.
They can have an ar 15 because they are allowed to under their constitution and changing it now by political means would be akin to the EWC debate in SA.
The culture has not shifted , the media is saying it has , most of the "common sense" gun laws were enacted during Bill Clintons time and even that was too severe for the 2A ,a ban on a semiauto is infact a ban on any firearm besides a musket style or maybe flintlock, see how i know you are uninformed ?
Did you know that the US constitution has been amended twenty seven times... By political means.

Because that’s the only way to amend the constitution.

The rest of your post is a rant.
 

greg0205

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You're not going to police a country with drone strikes. A well-regulated militia will always stop a police force from enforcing the law, that much is enough to protect the citizens from the state to the degree foreseen by the people who crafted the constitution in the first place.


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1160022554502938627.html



Again, I'm not opposed to reasonable regulations, whatever that means, what I am opposed to is writing regulations in such a way that together the restrictions give the state a defacto means to render the 2nd amendment moot.
How is it that you hate antifa so?

EDIT: This is a serious question. These folk turn up to protest the worst kind of authoritarianism, often facing police who empathise with the hardliners.

They’re literally the militia you’re invoking.

But you hate ‘em...

I don’t get it.
 
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Gingerbeardman

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Did you know that the US constitution has been amended twenty seven times... By political means.

Because that’s the only way to amend the constitution.

The rest of your post is a rant.
You and all the people like you who really want to change the amendment but are too mealy mouthed to come out and say so is what is wrong with the gun debate.

If you think you have the majority, come out and say it outright, if you don't stop bitching and moaning and trying to circumvent the will of the majority as the minority by less than honest means.
 

Jabulani22

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Did you know that the US constitution has been amended twenty seven times... By political means.

Because that’s the only way to amend the constitution.

The rest of your post is a rant.
Ok political wrangling and tricks such as calling for common sense gun laws while citing a "culture"shift ,no culture shifted , Americans still buy heaps of guns , stop letting guns scare you , the rest may be a rant but it has shown your illiteracy of the subject matter or should i be thankful that you wouldnt call for a ban on semiautos ?
 

Gingerbeardman

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How is it that you hate antifa so?
I have contempt for antifa, I'm not sure that counts as hatred. Rebels who want to institution anarchism as a ruling principle are nothing more than clowns, although their thinking can be dangerous to anyone who is infected with it on a personal level, but mainly in a self-destructive manner.
 

greg0205

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I have contempt for antifa, I'm not sure that counts as hatred. Rebels who want to institution anarchism as a ruling principle are nothing more than clowns, although their thinking can be dangerous to anyone who is infected with it on a personal level, but mainly in a self-destructive manner.
I made an edit to that post.

In the 40’s these folk were the resistance. In Spain they fought Franco... Jesus, Rick in Casablanca was antifa.
 
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