Mass shooting in Dayton Ohio - Sunday, 4 August 2019

[greg0205]

Ok political wrangling and tricks such as calling for common sense gun laws while citing a "culture"shift ,no culture shifted , Americans still buy heaps of guns , stop letting guns scare you , the rest may be a rant but it has shown your illiteracy of the subject matter or should i be thankful that you wouldnt call for a ban on semiautos ?

43% of American households have at least one gun. That means 57% *don’t*:

https://www.statista.com/statistics...eholds-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/


61% of Americans want stricter gun laws and 92% of Americans want background checks:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx



Tell me more how culture hasn’t shifted ‘tho.

 

[greg0205]

Ok, but that's not the same antifa that you see today. The antifa you see today likes to think everyone not to the left of Stalin is a fascist, and so they run around bullying everyone with their anti-bullying like it's opposite day or something.

If the lefties were vaguely capable of detecting actual fascism, I might have more sympathy for them.

Actually, one of the reasons I'm so enthusiastic about the disintegration of the Dems as a political party is because it spells the hope of a return to a more authentic form of leftwing politics, which would be a positive shift in the culture war as far as I'm concerned.

You might want to check out this thread, if you're actually interested in exploring these issues:
https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/threads/universal-institutional-failure.1041763/

Will do.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

Will do.

Wrt the video, there's a point where Weinstein says something about Thiel teaching him about the state having a monopoly on violence. It's that line of thinking and the ideas associated with it that I consider relevant to the discussion we're having now.

 

[greg0205]

Ok political wrangling and tricks such as calling for common sense gun laws while citing a "culture"shift ,no culture shifted , Americans still buy heaps of guns , stop letting guns scare you , the rest may be a rant but it has shown your illiteracy of the subject matter or should i be thankful that you wouldnt call for a ban on semiautos ?

Sorry, I just wanted to get back to this for a moment... Specifically the “stop letting guns scare you” bit.

My first rifle was a .303 Lee-Enfield. Boer War vintage. My great grandfather gave it to my grandfather, and he gave it to me... I was around 9 or 10 years old. Didn’t get to shoot it a lot and it was stolen in a house robbery.

I still miss it.

I’ve also owned a .38 Special and a 9mm Beretta. Sold ‘em both.

Then, there are a couple of SADF threads on MyBB. Folk like me tend to post in them, ‘cos, you know, we were there. I was deployed as an operational medic with a unit called Koevoet... you should google them.

Not only did I get special weapons training back then, I came back from Namibia to instruct special weapons to the next intake... Described all of those weapons in the Las Vegas shooting thread if you’re interested in looking ‘em up.

“Scare me”?

Jabulani, you think you know me, you really don’t.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

lol greg is posting drivel which claims guns are the main factor simply because the people used them , by this kind of logic i see breathing as a clear link and anyone who breathes can be a suspect.
Once again , why arent every single person with a gun on or near them shooting up places right now ? its because the vast majority are not mentally unbalanced to the point of dealing death and injury .

A lot of bluster and still no evidence. Come on, man. At least try.

 

[Unhappy438]

Drones dont hold street corners and ask for papers at curfew , they have their place but not in enforcement of communities.
They can have an ar 15 because they are allowed to under their constitution and changing it now by political means would be akin to the EWC debate in SA.
The culture has not shifted , the media is saying it has , most of the "common sense" gun laws were enacted during Bill Clintons time and even that was too severe for the 2A ,a ban on a semiauto is infact a ban on any firearm besides a musket style or maybe flintlock, see how i know you are uninformed ?

Nah the constitution doesn't protect AR-15s , that one has been done in the courts already.

 

[access]

I mean, no you didn't. You posted a Wikipedia link which you can use to argue you case, but you didn't.

"where?! what?! where huh where?! i dont see anything?!!? ppffff lol!!! what!?!? show me!? " is all im getting from you with that response.

or can you really not read the information and only see red strings all over a pin up board.

states, guns per 100 is 120.5 total. deaths 12.21
safrica, guns per 100 is 12.7 total. deaths 8.3 <- this needs to be around 1.2 for gun ownership to be a predictor.

normalise that how ever you want, add some other countries, there is no correlation between gun ownership and deaths as a predictor when looking at global information.
to make it simple, between those countries 2 the gun ownership is almost 10 fold difference, but not the deaths.

Do you think all people that kill are "mentally ill"?

There's a common link between mass shooters and a history of domestic violence and misogyny

so in your mind a "mentally healthy" person does those things... riiiiight..


lol article experts. experts also say a difficulty to understand things is a symptom of depression.


here we have more knife stabbings or even some guy with a "samurai sword" omegaknife!! . is knife ownership a predictor now too?

there are more violent people than others. the people are violent, the weapons dont make them so.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

or can you really not read the information and only see red strings all over a pin up board.

states, guns per 100 is 120.5 total. deaths 12.21
safrica, guns per 100 is 12.7 total. deaths 8.3 <- this needs to be around 1.2 for gun ownership to be a predictor.

normalise that how ever you want, add some other countries, there is no correlation between gun ownership and deaths as a predictor when looking at global information.
to make it simple, between those countries 2 the gun ownership is almost 10 fold difference, but not the deaths.

You can flail about all you want, but the actual research on this is quite clear.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

After controlling for variables such as socioeconomic factors and other crime, places with more guns have more gun deaths. Researchers have found this to be true not just with homicides but also with suicides (which in recent years were around 60 percent of US gun deaths), domestic violence, violence against police, and mass shootings.

The other developed countries with high gun ownership rates (none close to the US, though) have very strict gun control laws.

so in your mind a "mentally healthy" person does those things... riiiiight..

So is that a yes? All people who kill are "mentally ill" your view? What definition of mental illness are you using for this?

lol article experts. experts also say a difficulty to understand things is a symptom of depression.

Uh huh.

here we have more knife stabbings or even some guy with a "samurai sword" omegaknife!! . is knife ownership a predictor now too?

there are more violent people than others. the people are violent, the weapons dont make them so.

You're bordering on total incoherence, but I'll try again:

Violence, mental illness and video games aren't unique to the US, their crime level isn't a particular outlier either (although gun crime is). What is unique is the ease with which people can get guns, including dangerously unstable, violence-prone people.

 

[rietrot]

Rather curiously, there do not appear to be any studies regarding the prevalence of SSRIs and similar anti-depressants among mass shooters.

It wouldn't be one of those things nobody wants to look at because the outcome might fsck with a multi-billion Dollar industry seeing as how 18% of Americans are on such drugs these days, would it?

Give it time. They are only now figuring out that opioit addiction is bad. Maybe in 10 years time. Someone will look at SSRIs.

 

[rietrot]

Ok, but that's not the same antifa that you see today. The antifa you see today likes to think everyone not to the left of Stalin is a fascist, and so they run around bullying everyone with their anti-bullying like it's opposite day or something.

If the lefties were vaguely capable of detecting actual fascism, I might have more sympathy for them.

That's how most revolutions go. It is never really rational. It's because people don't get taught propper history anymore. I think each country needs a revolution somewhere in its history just to sort out the social order. I would count the American war for independence and their civil war, but kids today are ignorant of even the basic story. All they thing is meh, racist and slaves.

 

[Lupus]

The key thing here is people are arguing over the American constitution and the second amendment. That's the thing it's an amendment which means it was added later, same as the 18th one which was repealed by the 21st, how come that could be repealed? But they don't want to look at repealing the 2nd, which was enacted in the 1791, I mean the 3rd is for restricting quartering soldiers, which was a thing in you guessed it the 1700s during the American Independance war.
Times have changed, stricter gun laws need to be looked at in the US, 200+ mass shootings a year isn't norrmal.

 

[rietrot]

The key thing here is people are arguing over the American constitution and the second amendment. That's the thing it's an amendment which means it was added later, same as the 18th one which was repealed by the 21st, how come that could be repealed? But they don't want to look at repealing the 2nd, which was enacted in the 1791, I mean the 3rd is for restricting quartering soldiers, which was a thing in you guessed it the 1700s during the American Independance war.
Times have changed, stricter gun laws need to be looked at in the US, 200+ mass shootings a year isn't norrmal.

Millions of guns available and only 200 mass shootings most of which was gang related with illegal guns. Guns isn't the problem. The 10 people that felt the need to kill other innocent people is.

The US always had this problem. Old style serial killers seem to have fallen out of fashion. This is just the new style serial killer? Someone needs to look into why they produce more of them. Not just moan about the tool they use.

 

[Emjay]

How is it that you hate antifa so?

EDIT: This is a serious question. These folk turn up to protest the worst kind of authoritarianism, often facing police who empathise with the hardliners.

They’re literally the militia you’re invoking.

But you hate ‘em...

I don’t get it.

The authoritarians opposing the authoritarians.

Like, what's there not to like?

 

[access]

You can flail about all you want, but the actual research on this is quite clear.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/



The other developed countries with high gun ownership rates (none close to the US, though) have very strict gun control laws.



So is that a yes? All people who kill are "mentally ill" your view? What definition of mental illness are you using for this?



Uh huh.

You're bordering on total incoherence, but I'll try again:

Violence, mental illness and video games aren't unique to the US, their crime level isn't a particular outlier either (although gun crime is). What is unique is the ease with which people can get guns, including dangerously unstable, violence-prone people.

...lol memes

why not post a meme of a pilot telling passengers "everythings okay" during a high-jacking.


a gun might be a tool to do it with, but its not the cause.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

then also

https://crimeresearch.org/2016/04/murder-and-homicide-rates-before-and-after-gun-bans/

or is your problem only with deaths by guns. remove the gun and the crazies will use something else, in fact death rates by other means increase.

and your "all people that kills" thing, we are talking about people that commit atrocities not someone that does is it self defence for example. try harder.


tbh, i dont like guns in general really, but enjoy shooting them sometimes, they are fascinating creations. i think they give the weak and feeble too much power, but im not going to believe this crap about reducing gun ownership will reduce intentional deaths. before guns, wars and deaths never needed a sulfur, charcoal and potassium nitrate propelled object to kill millions upon millions of people. it just needed some motivated people.

ive had enough of this topic, i have come to the conclusion you are incapable of thinking for yourself or looking outside your comfort(spoon feeding) zone. i say good day sir!

 

[Cray]

.

https://crimeresearch.org/2016/04/murder-and-homicide-rates-before-and-after-gun-bans/

or is your problem only with deaths by guns. remove the gun and the crazies will use something else, in fact death rates by other means increase.
!

The fact of the matter is the guns are generally the most efficient and practical way for a person to end the life of one or multiple other people. Sure people might revert to other methods if guns are less readily available but at the end of the day, the level of lethality and effectiveness will not approach that of a firearm.

 

[EADC]

https://crimeresearch.org/2016/04/murder-and-homicide-rates-before-and-after-gun-bans/

I find this a bit sketchy because they put a graph in with a huge spike but don't mention that one spike was due to one person Harold Shipman over a long period of time.

Caution is needed when looking at longer-term homicide trend figures, primarily because they are based on the year in which offences are recorded by the police rather than the year in which the incidents took place. For example, the 172 homicides attributed to Dr Harold Shipman as a result of Dame Janet Smith‟s inquiry took place over a long period of time but were all recorded by the police during 2002/03.

This is from they study they site.

 

[Lupus]

...lol memes

why not post a meme of a pilot telling passengers "everythings okay" during a high-jacking.


a gun might be a tool to do it with, but its not the cause.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

then also

https://crimeresearch.org/2016/04/murder-and-homicide-rates-before-and-after-gun-bans/

or is your problem only with deaths by guns. remove the gun and the crazies will use something else, in fact death rates by other means increase.

and your "all people that kills" thing, we are talking about people that commit atrocities not someone that does is it self defence for example. try harder.


tbh, i dont like guns in general really, but enjoy shooting them sometimes, they are fascinating creations. i think they give the weak and feeble too much power, but im not going to believe this crap about reducing gun ownership will reduce intentional deaths. before guns, wars and deaths never needed a sulfur, charcoal and potassium nitrate propelled object to kill millions upon millions of people. it just needed some motivated people.

ive had enough of this topic, i have come to the conclusion you are incapable of thinking for yourself or looking outside your comfort(spoon feeding) zone. i say good day sir!

Yeah I know, let's go look at all those mass stabbings happening in countries where guns are banned, or mass stranglings or mass any other form of killing. Besides the guy who attempted a stabbing in Australia recently and the mass stabbing in Japan in 2016, how many do you hear about regularly?
Guns make it far easier to kill people and a lot more people than any other form. If guns weren't the problem why don't we hear about other mass killings? The only exception is of course bombs, but the rest you barely hear about.

 

[rietrot]

Yeah I know, let's go look at all those mass stabbings happening in countries where guns are banned, or mass stranglings or mass any other form of killing. Besides the guy who attempted a stabbing in Australia recently and the mass stabbing in Japan in 2016, how many do you hear about regularly?
Guns make it far easier to kill people and a lot more people than any other form. If guns weren't the problem why don't we hear about other mass killings? The only exception is of course bombs, but the rest you barely hear about.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_by_number_of_victims

Just because you didn't read it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Because all our entertainment comes from the US the news also has a US bias.

South America seem to have a bigger problem if you look at the above list.

 

[buka001]

Yeah I know, let's go look at all those mass stabbings happening in countries where guns are banned, or mass stranglings or mass any other form of killing. Besides the guy who attempted a stabbing in Australia recently and the mass stabbing in Japan in 2016, how many do you hear about regularly?
Guns make it far easier to kill people and a lot more people than any other form. If guns weren't the problem why don't we hear about other mass killings? The only exception is of course bombs, but the rest you barely hear about.

The Onion nails this phenomenon with their recycled headline, every time a mass shooting takes place in the USA.

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1835173950

 

[Lupus]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_by_number_of_victims

Just because you didn't read it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Because all our entertainment comes from the US the news also has a US bias.

South America seem to have a bigger problem if you look at the above list.

Did I mention serial killers? Or did I mention mass stabbings? A serial killer is very different and can be done in any country, it's not a spur of the moment oh I've got three AR-15s with enough ammo here to kill 30 people.