Mass shooting in Dayton Ohio - Sunday, 4 August 2019

[Nerfherder]

Somehow 10 does not sound like a mass shooting to me..... one pistol could do the same in a crowded room. Alarmest spins everywhere, in Japan a crazy set a building on fire with people in it.... no one is calling for fuel control laws because of it.

10 people died you think this was a shooting accident ?


Not enough people die ?

Some nutjob got hold of a firearm and executed his right to use it. Same old same old.

 

[greg0205]

There are current civilian "ceilings" in what can and cannot be owned and certain special licenses (permits) to have certain weapons.

If you don't want Armor piercing bullets, don't allow the sale of bullet proof vests to non-protection officers. That again steps on other things by limiting someone's right to protect themselves in a non-lethal way. So there is a discrepancy. But that is my own personal view on it.

Asking a person with a 9mm to defend himself against attackers with AK47s and R5 rifles in SA is a very tall ask. Why should anyone be in a situation where they can't defend themselves adequately.

No one should be in a situation where they need a firearm to defend themselves in the first place, but here we are anyway...

Shouldn’t we let common sense dictate where we go from here ‘tho?

 

[Nanfeishen]

Just curious,

Of all the people owning guns in America, people owning bump-stocks, barrel Mags and the likes, How many of those people that own it actually goes on mass shootings?

Very few actually.
Its not a gun issue its a society issue.
Mass shootings on the scale in which they occur are nothing more than indication of a fault or a flaw within that society.
Address the flaws and the shootings will reduce.

 

[Nerfherder]

Just curious,

Of all the people owning guns in America, people owning bump-stocks, barrel Mags and the likes, How many of those people that own it actually goes on mass shootings? This is the same old argument time in and time out. If one guys owns a panel Van of which millions of other people own it. Do we now ban the Panel Van because someone used it to kill people with and making it easier as opposed to a Vespa scooter?

Now you will say: But cars have a use, it's not intended for killing, which I agree. I then ask you what defends you against a gun, and you will say a gun. Full circle and we start again. Unfortunately as long as there are guns of all calibers and fire-rates, people will need similar weapons to defend against it. Because a hand full of morons are too stupid to blow their own heads off and would rather kill 4+ people to get a statement across now voids all reason and people's rights to protect themselves from such morons?

If we were all allowed to own nukes how many people would actually use them ?

I know I wouldn't - but I'm not a maniac. I'm also not stupid enough to purchase one... because I wouldn't want any accidents to happen.

So we make rules for stupid and crazy people. Makes sense ?

 

[Pitbull]

No one should be in a situation where they need a firearm to defend themselves in the first place, but here we are anyway...

Shouldn’t we let common sense dictate where we go from here ‘tho?

I think we should start with what we have and address that first. Put restrictions in place and what you need to qualify for certain caliber, magazine sizes, accessories and the likes. It should be if you qualify for A,B C and D you get what you need from that category. If you don't qualify for B why not and how can you qualify and so forth. That will solve the but "Bump-stock, Magazine capacity, caliber" debates.

As new technology comes on the market, treat it fairly and add it to the list with applicable requirements. Calling for blanket bans and stricter gun control with no working plan make it emotional and no-one will buy into it. Have a tangible working example, give it to the public and get their buy-in. You will be amazed at what can be achieved with common courtesy and respect. Instead of trying to force one's view onto others. You will get emotional push back. That's just how humans work.

 

[rambo919]

10 people died you think this was a shooting accident ?


Not enough people die ?

Some nutjob got hold of a firearm and executed his right to use it. Same old same old.

Obtuse much? I used hypotheticals to prove points. Calm down and read it again.

 

[greg0205]

I think we should start with what we have and address that first. Put restrictions in place and what you need to qualify for certain caliber, magazine sizes, accessories and the likes. It should be if you qualify for A,B C and D you get what you need from that category. If you don't qualify for B why not and how can you qualify and so forth. That will solve the but "Bump-stock, Magazine capacity, caliber" debates.

As new technology comes on the market, treat it fairly and add it to the list with applicable requirements. Calling for blanket bans and stricter gun control with no working plan make it emotional and no-one will buy into it. Have a tangible working example, give it to the public and get their buy-in. You will be amazed at what can be achieved with common courtesy and respect. Instead of trying to force one's view onto others. You will get emotional push back. That's just how humans work.

Agree ‘tho personally I’d like just a little push because this feel urgent.

A plane crashes and Boeing ground it.
Fords catch fire and they recall.
Polony has Listeriosis and Enterprise has to recall and destroy.

Jesus, Yanks we’re onboard with lettuce being recalled a while ago...

Folk get the urgency in public health situations because it makes sense.

I think most gun owners would be fine with a little push, and I think the ones who really aren’t are folk we should worry about.

 

[rrh]

Apparently the sister was found shot in a vehicle with another man who was a friend of the shooter, maybe they were trying to intervene in some manner which resulted in the shooter taking their lives.

Conspiracy theory du jour

 

[The Voice]

Very few actually.
Its not a gun issue its a society issue.
Mass shootings on the scale in which they occur are nothing more than indication of a fault or a flaw within that society.
Address the flaws and the shootings will reduce.

Agreed. Almost 25% of the Swiss population (around 2 million of 8.5 million) is armed - yet the last mass shooting was in 2001. If I recall, once they leave military service, they also get to keep their service rifles (which are fully automatic, unlike the semi-automatic variety that's available to the public in America). So are guns really the problem? Or is it the people who own them?

Also, can we please stop using the term "AR" so loosely? It does not stand for "Assault Rifle" (which isn't even a real thing) - it's an abbreviation for ArmaLite Rifle (ArmaLite just being one of many companies that manufactures rifles). Banning semi-automatics would be problematic, too, because technically ALL guns that can be purchased by the American public are semi-automatic: pistols, rifles, etc. You pull the trigger once, and one round comes out the barrel. Fully automatic weapons (hold down the trigger, and a lot of rounds come out the barrel) are not available AT ALL to the general public, and are only used by the military and the police (and criminals).

And, finally, the myth that Joe Public can walk into any Wallmart and walk out with a fully loaded AR-9000 with a 9000 rocket clip with a chainsaw attachment in 30 minutes or less: just no. It's not possible, and has been debunked countless times.

 

[rietrot]

Agree ‘tho personally I’d like just a little push because this feel urgent.

A plane crashes and Boeing ground it.
Fords catch fire and they recall.
Polony has Listeriosis and Enterprise has to recall and destroy.

Jesus, Yanks we’re onboard with lettuce being recalled a while ago...

Folk get the urgency in public health situations because it makes sense.

I think most gun owners would be fine with a little push, and I think the ones who really aren’t are folk we should worry about.

All mechanical faults with the machines that don't work as intended.

If a gun misfires it should also be recalled.

 

[Unhappy438]

Agreed. Almost 25% of the Swiss population (around 2 million of 8.5 million) is armed - yet the last mass shooting was in 2001. If I recall, once they leave military service, they also get to keep their service rifles (which are fully automatic, unlike the semi-automatic variety that's available to the public in America). So are guns really the problem? Or is it the people who own them?

Its both, different laws work for different societies. Just like democracy doesn't work in the middle east, liberal gun laws doesn't work in the US, their society is not mature enough for it.

 

[thestaggy]

The gun debate is a deflection. Can we talk about the POTUS stochastic terrorism yet?

Mass shootings occurred under Obama, Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter...

Problem goes way deeper than guns and one president.

 

[theratman]

Mass shootings occurred under Obama, Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter...

Problem goes way deeper than guns and one president.

Yip, it's got squat to do with who is in charge. What I would like to see is more proactive steps rather than reactive ones.

 

[SlinkyMike]

Mass shootings occurred under Obama, Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter...

Problem goes way deeper than guns and one president.

Agreed but I was talking about this attack and this president.

 

[greg0205]

Agreed. Almost 25% of the Swiss population (around 2 million of 8.5 million) is armed - yet the last mass shooting was in 2001. If I recall, once they leave military service, they also get to keep their service rifles (which are fully automatic, unlike the semi-automatic variety that's available to the public in America). So are guns really the problem? Or is it the people who own them?

Also, can we please stop using the term "AR" so loosely? It does not stand for "Assault Rifle" (which isn't even a real thing) - it's an abbreviation for ArmaLite Rifle (ArmaLite just being one of many companies that manufactures rifles). Banning semi-automatics would be problematic, too, because technically ALL guns that can be purchased by the American public are semi-automatic: pistols, rifles, etc. You pull the trigger once, and one round comes out the barrel. Fully automatic weapons (hold down the trigger, and a lot of rounds come out the barrel) are not available AT ALL to the general public, and are only used by the military and the police (and criminals).

And, finally, the myth that Joe Public can walk into any Wallmart and walk out with a fully loaded AR-9000 with a 9000 rocket clip with a chainsaw attachment in 30 minutes or less: just no. It's not possible, and has been debunked countless times.

I don’t think anyone here is using AR as an acronym for assault rifle.

I’m not.

Manufacturers call their version of the rifle an AR-15 or some variation, but I think it’s generally accepted here that when folk talk about an AR they mean the semiautomatic civilian version of a military M-16... I’m not wasting my time typing “style rifle” when most folk know exactly what I’m talking about.

If it’s a civilian AK, I’mma calling it an AK.

Also, semiautomatic is absolutely the correct description, but it’s not the semiauto part that’s problematic, rather that it’s a semiautomatic long-gun with a large magazine capacity.

 

[Willie Trombone]

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/

Connor Betts, the Dayton, Ohio mass shooter, was a self-described “leftist,” who wrote that he would happily vote for Democrat Elizabeth Warren, praised Satan, was upset about the 2016 presidential election results, and added, “I want socialism, and i’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding.”
Betts’ Twitter profile read, “he/him / anime fan / metalhead / leftist / i’m going to hell and i’m not coming back.” One tweet on his page read, “Off to Midnight Mass. At least the songs are good. #athiestsonchristmas.” The page handle? I am the spookster. On one selfie, he included the hashtags, “#selfie4satan #HailSatan @SatanTweeting.” On the date of Republican Sen. John McCain’s death, he wrote, “**** John McCain.” He also liked tweets referencing the El Paso mass shooting in the hours before Dayton.
Twitter has now suspended the Twitter page, removing it. It was up for several hours after the mass shooting.
On Nov. 2, 2018, he wrote: “Vote blue for gods sake.”

‌

“This is America: Guns on every corner, guns in every house, no freedom but that to kill,” he wrote in December 2018. And, “’Tis! The pistol is a Beretta 93R, called the REK7 in BO4. Do love me some guns!” He also wrote, “Hammer, brick, gun.” On Feb. 14, 2018, he tweeted this at Sen. Rob Portman: “@robportman hey rob. How much did they pay you to look the other way? 17 kids are dead. If not now, when?” That was the date of the mass shooting at a school in Parkland, Florida.

 

[MidnightWizard]

Nine dead, twenty seven injured... that’s thirty six shot... less than 60 seconds.

Here’s what the magazine the shooter had on his rifle looked like:

5.56mm Dual drum magazine ( probably 100 rnds )

Although we have uncontrolled violent crime in SA
I am quite surprised that with the level of frustration as a result of the failing SOE's and the "tax-rape" we do not have any similar incidents to this.
I could imagine such a magazine being attractive to some who would see the latest demands ( and threats ) from
Eskom management as being -- beyond redemption ...
Strangely NOTHING ever happens ?
How and why are South Africans different to Americans ?

 

[USZA]

Cloud are Terminating their services to 8chan

The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

 

[USZA]

8chan, Megaphone for Gunmen, Has Gone Dark. ‘Shut the Site Down,’ Says Its Creator.

Fredrick Brennan was getting ready for church at his home in the Philippines when the news of a mass shooting in El Paso arrived. His response was immediate and instinctive.

“Whenever I hear about a mass shooting, I say, ‘All right, we have to research if there’s an 8chan connection,’” he said about the online message board he started in 2013.

It didn’t take him long to find one.

Moments before the El Paso shooting on Saturday, a four-page message whose author identified himself as the gunman appeared on 8chan. The person who posted the message encouraged his “brothers” on the site to spread the contents far and wide.

In recent months, 8chan has become a go-to resource for violent extremists. At least three mass shootings this year — including the mosque killings in Christchurch, New Zealand, and the synagogue shooting in Poway, Calif. — have been announced in advance on the site, often accompanied by racist writings that seem engineered to go viral on the internet.

Mr. Brennan started the online message board as a free speech utopia. But now, 8chan is known as something else: a megaphone for mass shooters, and a recruiting platform for violent white nationalists.

And it has become a focal point for those seeking to disrupt the pathways of online extremism. On Sunday, critics characterized the site as a breeding ground for violence, and lobbied the site’s service providers to get it taken down. One of those providers, Cloudflare, a service that protects websites against cyberattacks, said it would stop working with 8chan on Sunday night and the site went dark about 3 a.m. Eastern time. And Mr. Brennan, who stopped working with the site’s current owner last year, called for it to be taken offline before it leads to further violence.

“Shut the site down,” Mr. Brennan said in an interview. “It’s not doing the world any good. It’s a complete negative to everybody except the users that are there. And you know what? It’s a negative to them, too. They just don’t realize it.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/04/technology/8chan-shooting-manifesto.html

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Well then you agree with Greg and most Americans..



Now ask yourself why they dont get stricter controls? Gun lobbyists is your answer.

Same gun lobbyists and their cowardly toadies that made it illegal to use computers at the National Tracing Center, and banned the CDC from studying gun violence.

Agreed. Almost 25% of the Swiss population (around 2 million of 8.5 million) is armed - yet the last mass shooting was in 2001. If I recall, once they leave military service, they also get to keep their service rifles (which are fully automatic, unlike the semi-automatic variety that's available to the public in America). So are guns really the problem? Or is it the people who own them?

The Swiss also have very stringent gun control laws, universal healthcare and much less poisonous political culture.

And, finally, the myth that Joe Public can walk into any Wallmart and walk out with a fully loaded AR-9000 with a 9000 rocket clip with a chainsaw attachment in 30 minutes or less: just no. It's not possible, and has been debunked countless times.

This guy bought an AR-15 in 7 minutes. This one took 38 minutes.

Those were both in shops, but depending on the state, like Missouri and Texas (and many more I bet) have no magazine capacity restrictions and no background checks for private sales. So people can buy these guns out of the boot of a car in a few minutes.

Mass shootings occurred under Obama, Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter...

Problem goes way deeper than guns and one president.

That's true, there's a long history of it, too. But one really has to contort oneself into a pretzel to miss the connection between Trump's campaign of hate and some of the attacks in the last couple of years. To be clear, it didn't start with Trump, either. This stuff is standard fare on Fox News and the online right, and has been for a long time. He's just the loudest and latest airhorn for it.