(Metro) Cops in 'raid of terror'

[R/SGT]

Can you tell me more about it; training etc.
Just curious.

HI gdiza

Here is a link to a forum which should awnser all your questions
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=62445&highlight=RESERVIST

Sufice to say we do the same job as the Permanment force members.

 

[Slootvreter]

Why is it that everyone are always so innocent after these raids? I've been at clubs a couple of times when there were raids and people are always very arrogant towards the police. Then as soon as someone gets hurt, the excuses comes out the next day... "I just wanted to get my ID from the car...".

This is what I also want to know. Make no mistake, I'm sure lots of these raids are executed in a very wrong way, but is has to be sudden and surprising, you cannot exactly go and warn the club owner about an upcoming raid. People sit and watch news and listen to radio about underage drinking, drunkenness and fighting and drugs, and demand that police clamp down on the perpetrators, but after a raid these people are up in arms about rights being violated. And no, I'm not for people being pistolwhipped for being drunk, but it seems that even a bodysearch will leave some people feeling violated.

 

[R/SGT]

I had an experience like that while on duty.

We were working in Central PE and we were approached by three white young ladies whom we had seen earlier that night standing with some Nigerians.

At the time we thought they were hookers, based on the way they were dressed.

Anyway upon speaking to them we learnt that all three were foreign exchange students from Norway, one of the little darlings had taken her shoes off while in Kwaito house and they had been stolen.

They wanted us tome back to the club and search for the shoes.

We told them that we would not be able to find the shoes since they didn’t even know who took them plus it occurred 30 min earlier.

We offered to open a docket, this didn’t go down well and they started screaming at us.

My Captain then politely told them to go home as central is not the safest place. They then started calling us racists etc upon which we politely told them to F off.

Later that evening we were called to Kwaito house for Pointing of a firearm as we were finishing up one of the young ladies come up and started swearing and shouting, telling us that we are what’s wrong with SA.

I was instructed to arrest her for been drunk and disorderly which I did, unfortunately back at the station it was decided not to charge her as she was a foreign national and she apologized.

Imagine our surprise the next Monday when a article appears in the Herald showing a trio of very demur ladies telling everyone about how badly they were treated by the police.

Luckily for us we had taken photos of them standing with the Nigerians and also of the shouting, we then proceeded to send these photos to all the relevant parties. Need less to say they had to come into the station and apologize for their behavior

 

[grayston]

I had an experience like that while on duty.

Well, that's great. Next time I get assaulted by a police officer I'll remember that my protests will be ignored because of three stupid Norwegian women in PE...

 

[Sackboy]

I had an experience like that while on duty.

We were working in Central PE and we were approached by three white young ladies whom we had seen earlier that night standing with some Nigerians.

At the time we thought they were hookers, based on the way they were dressed.

Anyway upon speaking to them we learnt that all three were foreign exchange students from Norway, one of the little darlings had taken her shoes off while in Kwaito house and they had been stolen.

They wanted us tome back to the club and search for the shoes.

We told them that we would not be able to find the shoes since they didn’t even know who took them plus it occurred 30 min earlier.

We offered to open a docket, this didn’t go down well and they started screaming at us.

My Captain then politely told them to go home as central is not the safest place. They then started calling us racists etc upon which we politely told them to F off.

Later that evening we were called to Kwaito house for Pointing of a firearm as we were finishing up one of the young ladies come up and started swearing and shouting, telling us that we are what’s wrong with SA.

I was instructed to arrest her for been drunk and disorderly which I did, unfortunately back at the station it was decided not to charge her as she was a foreign national and she apologized.

Imagine our surprise the next Monday when a article appears in the Herald showing a trio of very demur ladies telling everyone about how badly they were treated by the police.

Luckily for us we had taken photos of them standing with the Nigerians and also of the shouting, we then proceeded to send these photos to all the relevant parties. Need less to say they had to come into the station and apologize for their behavior

• The Norwegian police would probably have helped them.
• Why did you have to swear at them. As police officers, it's part of the job to take some abuse and even some knocks. Sounds like you were itching to 'get' them for associating with Nigerians.
• Don't you distinguish between DRUNK or D&D?

 

[medicnick83]

• The Norwegian police would probably have helped them.
• Why did you have to swear at them. As police officers, it's part of the job to take some abuse and even some knocks. Sounds like you were itching to 'get' them for associating with Nigerians.
• Don't you distinguish between DRUNK or D&D?

I wouldn't tolerate verbal abuse for long - If I was a cop, I would've done the same thing - don't act ignorant, you would have done the same thing too - some might even have slapped her.

 

[Sackboy]

I wouldn't tolerate verbal abuse for long - If I was a cop, I would've done the same thing - don't act ignorant, you would have done the same thing too - some might even have slapped her.

I would say don't become a policeman if you have a low tolerance for verbal abuse. If you're going to slap women around, then you won't last long either. A police officer has to be above that in order to earn respect. That, in my opinion, is precisely what's missing and is indeed making the general public behave in the way they do in front of officers.

You have to ask yourself why a policeman becomes one. Abuse of power is not a valid reason.

 

[R/SGT]

grayston
Well, that's great. Next time I get assaulted by a police officer I'll remember that my protests will be ignored because of three stupid Norwegian women in PE...

I love to hear the logic behind this argument

Sackboy

• The Norwegian police would probably have helped them.
• Why did you have to swear at them. As police officers, it's part of the job to take some abuse and even some knocks. Sounds like you were itching to 'get' them for associating with Nigerians.
• Don't you distinguish between DRUNK or D&D?

I would say don't become a policeman if you have a low tolerance for verbal abuse. If you're going to slap women around, then you won't last long either. A police officer has to be above that in order to earn respect. That, in my opinion, is precisely what's missing and is indeed making the general public behave in the way they do in front of officers.

You have to ask yourself why a policeman becomes one. Abuse of power is not a valid reason.

We did try to help but there are limits to what we can do, we were not going to go and close the pub and frisk all the patrons to find her shoes, this is what she wanted.

Point
Her and her friends were already well under the influence
They had no Idea who took the shoes
It had happened about 30 minutes earlier
They did not want a case opened they just wanted the shoes
We told them that central is a bad area and offered to take them home, they refused.

As for them been with Nigerians we really couldn’t care less, its actually a common thing with forign women when they come to SA

Drunk and disorderly is standing in the middle of the road screaming and swearing and refusing to move for cars. When ask to move she swore at us, when we tried to lead her off the street she resisted.

I have had plenty of abuse and threats hurled at me, they don’t bother me. It they had gone home or at least gone and had more drinks with their buddies nothing would have happened. She elevated the situation and as a result was arrested.

There was no slapping although there was kicking and scratching when I picked her up and put her in the van.

As for abuse of power, far from it.

You have no idea what the job entails and as such like to play armchair general.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Do you know that the Norwegian police would have gone into a crowded pub and tried to retrieve the shoes? They prob would have told the girls exactly the same thing, that its not a useful expenditure of their time.

As for the swearing, after having abuse hurled at them for however long, I'd say it was more than justified...

And again, you're making an assumption about the difference between drunk and D&D.... R/SGT was in the situation, you were not.

 

[Sackboy]

We did try to help but there are limits to what we can do, we were not going to go and close the pub and frisk all the patrons to find her shoes, this is what she wanted.

Point
Her and her friends were already well under the influence
They had no Idea who took the shoes
It had happened about 30 minutes earlier
They did not want a case opened they just wanted the shoes
We told them that central is a bad area and offered to take them home, they refused.

As for them been with Nigerians we really couldn’t care less, its actually a common thing with forign women when they come to SA

Drunk and disorderly is standing in the middle of the road screaming and swearing and refusing to move for cars. When ask to move she swore at us, when we tried to lead her off the street she resisted.

I have had plenty of abuse and threats hurled at me, they don’t bother me. It they had gone home or at least gone and had more drinks with their buddies nothing would have happened. She elevated the situation and as a result was arrested.

There was no slapping although there was kicking and scratching when I picked her up and put her in the van.

As for abuse of power, far from it.

You have no idea what the job entails and as such like to play armchair general.

I/we weren't there, so you played it as you saw it. The story comes out in full now though. Earlier they were arrested in a house, now they are in the street committing being more than disorderly.

One thing though - taking drunk people home is a big NO NO.

"Kicking & scratching" - yes, touching a woman will do that. Any female officers in your sector?

Also, it's well understood in SA that the police and Nigerians do not get on, for reasons that are beyond this thread.

 

[Retro]

One thing though - taking drunk people home is a big NO NO.

Wow, a police officer offering to take a drunk person home??? What has the world come to, how dare they!

"Kicking & scratching" - yes, touching a woman will do that. Any female officers in your sector?

lol, so erm, should they just look and do nothing because there's no female officers nearby? How do you get her in the police car without touching her???

 

[R/SGT]

we weren't there, so you played it as you saw it. The story comes out in full now though. Earlier they were arrested in a house, now they are in the street committing being more than disorderly.

Where did I imply they were in a house?
This entire incident took place in Parliment St, Central PE
Plus only one of the women was arrested.

One thing though - taking drunk people home is a big NO NO.

Why not at least we know that they get home safely, that is our main concern

"Kicking & scratching" - yes, touching a woman will do that. Any female officers in your sector?

A male officer may arrest and detain a female suspect, however he may not search her. We didnt have any feamle officers with us and time did not allow us to wait for one.

Also, it's well understood in SA that the police and Nigerians do not get on, for reasons that are beyond this thread.

Yes because many of then are involved in illegal activities naimly drugs and prostitution, plus the majority of their girls are white. That is why we mistook the three ladies for prostitutes.

 

[Sackboy]

Where did I imply they were in a house?
Later that evening we were called to Kwaito house for Pointing of a firearm as we were finishing up one of the young ladies come up and started swearing and shouting, telling us that we are what’s wrong with SA.

I was instructed to arrest her for been drunk and disorderly which I did, unfortunately back at the station it was decided not to charge her as she was a foreign national and she apologized

This entire incident took place in Parliment St, Central PE
Plus only one of the women was arrested.
Why not at least we know that they get home safely, that is our main concern
That’s an intensely risky thing to do and you’re leaving yourself open to all sorts of claims. I wouldn’t advise it at all
A male officer may arrest and detain a female suspect, however he may not search her. We didnt have any feamle officers with us and time did not allow us to wait for one.
True, but you can’t have it both ways. Pick up and put a lady tourist into the back of a smelly police van and you will tend to get resistance.
Yes because many of then are involved in illegal activities naimly drugs and prostitution, plus the majority of their girls are white.
Very true

..

 

[R/SGT]

Kwaito house is pub in parliment street well known for its drug problem

That’s an intensely risky thing to do and you’re leaving yourself open to all sorts of claims. I wouldn’t advise it at all

As I said we help were we can, I have driven drunk drivers home, taken drunk teenagers home, taken injured people to hospital and taken injured animals to the spca. Its called common sense and decency.

True, but you can’t have it both ways. Pick up and put a lady tourist into the back of a smelly police van and you will tend to get resistance.

She was under arrest, end of story. My van wasnt smelly, I hosed it out when I came on duty.

 

[SlinkyMike]

Maybe boycotting clubs to spur the owners into action would be a way to be heard. Its astounding that nothing ever comes of the outrage... remember Stellies?

 

[tco21]

The whole situation reminds me of the powertripping phase that American cops had with their tazers last year.

 

[supersunbird]

The whole situation reminds me of the powertripping phase that American cops had with their tazers last year.

"Don't taze me bro"

 

[Slootvreter]

The whole situation reminds me of the powertripping phase that American cops had with their tazers last year.

Perhaps the police should not be armed at all? People always have something to moan about with the police....until they get mugged or assaulted.

 

[Drunkard #1]

Perhaps the police should not be armed at all? People always have something to moan about with the police....until they get mugged or assaulted.

Maybe the police should stick to dealing with actual crimes, like muggings and assaults, instead of looking for soft targets to beat up. Yes, we will bitch and moan about the police, because they are (from my experience, and the reports of others) a corrupt, incompetent, bureaucratic and misguided service (service, as in, to serve the public). They have a lot of success finding beer in a nightclub, rather than looking murderers, rapists and violent criminals as they should be. The proof that their efforts are worth nothing is the fact that clubs get less safe, more violent and more drug controlled as the years go on.

Somehow, they're never at a club when the bouncers are assaulting someone, and "lose" the docket when such an incident gets reported. Everyone is equal under the law, yeah right, just some people are more equal than others.

Until these stories stop appearing every few weeks, the cops will get no respect from the public. It's a very simple concept: Every single cop that is chosen to raid a club should be chosen based on his/her unwavering adherence to the law. That way people won't have something to bitch and moan about, rather than your (communist) suggestion that the police should be allowed to do what they want and not be held accountable to the public (the same public they are meant to be serving).

 

[R/SGT]

Why don’t you go and find some real crime

That is the favorite quote of people pulled over for minor infractions.

While I am totally against the incidents of police brutality, corruption and indifference that you see in the news, people must realize that the police are not fortune teller and not predict when and where a crime will occur.

Most often police action is a result of the following:
- Actually observing a offence occurring
- People reporting a complaint to 10111
- People reporting a complaint directly to a vehicle on patrol
- Operational intelligence
- Tip offs from informers

In all of these case there exists the possibility for the information to be flawed thus resulting in what may be seen as an overreaction by the police.

Case in point:
Mr B has a grudge against Mr C
Mr B calls 10111 telling them that Mr C will be a club Blue selling E and he will be armed.
Police call in NIU, they raid the club, due to the information they go in hard and fast.

While the above is no excuse for the brutality and stupidity witnessed at Stellenbosch, it shows a possible reason for the over reaction.

The police act on the information they receive and while it might be something as trivial as underage drink it is till against the law, if the don’t respond then they are lambasted by the people who laid the original complaint.

What the police need to do is ensure that all officers receive adequate training and that there is adequate oversight of all their activities.