(Metro) Cops in 'raid of terror'

[Sackboy]

That is the favorite quote of people pulled over for minor infractions.

While I am totally against the incidents of police brutality, corruption and indifference that you see in the news, people must realize that the police are not fortune teller and not predict when and where a crime will occur.

Most often police action is a result of the following:
- Actually observing a offence occurring
- People reporting a complaint to 10111
- People reporting a complaint directly to a vehicle on patrol
- Operational intelligence
- Tip offs from informers

In all of these case there exists the possibility for the information to be flawed thus resulting in what may be seen as an overreaction by the police.

Case in point:
Mr B has a grudge against Mr C
Mr B calls 10111 telling them that Mr C will be a club Blue selling E and he will be armed.
Police call in NIU, they raid the club, due to the information they go in hard and fast.

While the above is no excuse for the brutality and stupidity witnessed at Stellenbosch, it shows a possible reason for the over reaction.

The police act on the information they receive and while it might be something as trivial as underage drink it is till against the law, if the don’t respond then they are lambasted by the people who laid the original complaint.

What the police need to do is ensure that all officers receive adequate training and that there is adequate oversight of all their activities.

One big big problem is what the police do with the information.

I called them recently about a neighbour who has been hawking stolen tools. He's really a house-sitter, but he's also been subletting to half of Zimbabwe and Congo by the comings and goings at all hours.

Firstly the first 'officer' I spoke to to didn't understand what I was trying to tell him. I used all the techniques in the book, but he couldn't even get my number right. Finally he promised to take action. I didn't ring 10111 because that is worse (try it).

About an hour later, the people with the goods had moved in or on. I saw one guy with a tool box walking up the road. I called the police sector van, but they almost never answer that phone or it goes to a cryptic message. I then called the station and updated them.

About 30 minutes later a van came cruising past, without stopping until I flagged it down. They were now looking for the guy. I've never seen such a lack of interest from anyone until then. The suspect was wearing distinctive clothing and was not running yet they couldn't find him. How did I find out, well that's also an issue. I rang the station again, but they had no record of the original call and no record of arrest in that area.
I tried to tell them that I was now watching a friend of the first guy leaving the house with a big bag of things. I presume he was alerted and was moving the stuff. He appeared very nervous. Since the station couldn't link the calls because "it had been wiped from the computer", they couldn't do anything.

There is no local intelligence officer at any station to speak to, so nobody could keep observation on the property. So crime goes on and the police continue on their merry unprofessional way. Hence the high crime rates, which we aren't allowed to know about either.

 

[Sackboy]

... just to add, I've given police my details before about some quite major crime happenings around the place, yet NEVER received a call back. Why is that?

 

[R/SGT]

What the police need to do is ensure that all officers receive adequate training and that there is adequate oversight of all their activities.

That I why I have said the above

Always phone 10111 to report a incident, all the calls are recorded and logged.

Then if you call is not responded to in a manner you deem acceptable.

You can either make a complaint at your local station or call 10111 and ask to speak to the shift commander (usually a captain or superintendent) and request that he investigate.

This is not only a problem from the publics side, on the police side it can be a pain when the dumb ass on the telephone does not get the right info or mangles it beyond belief and we then react according to the info given to us and end up looking like idiots.

I have had quite a few instances when we have been given incorrect info on where the complaint is, what it is, how serious it is and when it occurred.

We sometimes want to go up to radio control and beat some sense into the idiot responsible.

 

[Sackboy]

That I why I have said the above

Always phone 10111 to report a incident, all the calls are recorded and logged.

Then if you call is not responded to in a manner you deem acceptable.

You can either make a complaint at your local station or call 10111 and ask to speak to the shift commander (usually a captain or superintendent) and request that he investigate.

This is not only a problem from the publics side, on the police side it can be a pain when the dumb ass on the telephone does not get the right info or mangles it beyond belief and we then react according to the info given to us and end up looking like idiots.

I have had quite a few instances when we have been given incorrect info on where the complaint is, what it is, how serious it is and when it occurred.

We sometimes want to go up to radio control and beat some sense into the idiot responsible.

You would think the SAPS would employ good language speakers and efficient people in responsible positions. But no, we have to be patient when there's a bloke in the garden with a knife and MAKE them understand the address and what you want. Even then they don't process the information quickly or sometimes not at all. I'd rather call the station. The very worst number to call is the cellphone emergency number. AVOID.

 

[Drunkard #1]

That is the favorite quote of people pulled over for minor infractions.

While I am totally against the incidents of police brutality, corruption and indifference that you see in the news, people must realize that the police are not fortune teller and not predict when and where a crime will occur.

Most often police action is a result of the following:
- Actually observing a offence occurring
- People reporting a complaint to 10111
- People reporting a complaint directly to a vehicle on patrol
- Operational intelligence
- Tip offs from informers

In all of these case there exists the possibility for the information to be flawed thus resulting in what may be seen as an overreaction by the police.

Case in point:
Mr B has a grudge against Mr C
Mr B calls 10111 telling them that Mr C will be a club Blue selling E and he will be armed.
Police call in NIU, they raid the club, due to the information they go in hard and fast.

While the above is no excuse for the brutality and stupidity witnessed at Stellenbosch, it shows a possible reason for the over reaction.

The police act on the information they receive and while it might be something as trivial as underage drink it is till against the law, if the don’t respond then they are lambasted by the people who laid the original complaint.

What the police need to do is ensure that all officers receive adequate training and that there is adequate oversight of all their activities.

I think that you are entirely right. Officers should be specifically trained for this sort of exercise. But, I would go further; officers should have to prove their aptitude for this. This is a very public exercise (where 95% of the "suspects" are innocent), and as such only the very best should be recruited, thus showing the public a competent and professional force (by treating everyone as innocent until proven guilty). Unfortunately SAPS management seems to send their most unstable gorillas to this sort exercise.

The other point you raise is equally relevant in this case. The publicly available reports scream "bad information", it's quite possible that the information was provided by a rival club owner/rival bouncer group/disgruntled patron etc. Also, considering that the raid was conducted by the EMPD, and the reports of numerous irregularities in the processes followed, I would jump to the conclusion that someone was paid off. What a convenient way to ruin a rival clubs reputation with patrons, just pay off someone at the EMPD to raid the place, violating peoples rights as they go, and now everyone associates that club with a very unpleasant raid.

However, the public shouldn't be responsible for bad information or untrained officers, nor should they suffer the consequences of poor police management. The mental scars left by these incidents affect people for years afterwards, and definitely contribute to the percentage of South Africans suffering from PTSD (as high as 25%, according to some psychologists).

 

[gpe]

Please realize that 99% of what you read in the news about the SAPS is complete BS!

The press criticize the SAPS daily and public opinion of the SAPS has been tarnished beyond repair years ago.

It is not the job of the police to inform the public why they raid a club and the real truth is only known to a select inner circle most instances.

The public don't really come into contact with death, nor experience shootings where colleagues are seriously injured/killed. When you are exposed to suicides, child deaths, murder, car accidents where people are mangled and other deaths like suicide of a colleague it causes a lot of stress. A person dying on the scene or dealing with the deceased family that's distraught causes serious insomnia, irritability etc. You may think those officers were being brutal but they are just a product of the system that has shaped them that way.

As for poor management its rife in the SAPS and there are incompetent supervisors who have no personality and are unlikeable. Its frustrating believe me and a reason there is a high turnover. The biggest problem of the SAPS imo is 'poor communication' sometimes 'no communication' and a lack of guidelines and administration. There are SAPS members who don't understand their roles and do not know how to deal with disturbances - partly because
they are called to the same repeat incident again and again and lose objectivity. There is racial tension and corruption where the police are involved in hijackings. Its crazy. If you report theft/corruption (experienced everywhere) you end up having an officer escort you home daily and at some stage you appear in court to face those personal.

A problem with the SAPS is that it is seen as job creation with low pay where people are allowed to fail entrance tests, repeat them many times over until they are accepted into the force which is wrong. And that's where the 'unstable officer' comes in like you mentioned. I'm referring to the psychological tests which are used to test mental stability and "consistent thought pattern" ie: If a person is unstable one week, he/she can complete the test and pass it the following week. This is wrong.

Some detectives go home at 4pm half asleep the rest work till 10pm or all night wrt murders and often the ones that go home at 4pm become Captains moving up rank.

And this is the poorly managed police force.. so you can only imagine how Metro operates lol Goon squad!

 

[icyrus]

You may think those officers were being brutal but they are just a product of the system that has shaped them that way.

I strongly disagree. There is always personal responsibility. Always.

 

[Slootvreter]

Somehow, they're never at a club when the bouncers are assaulting someone, and "lose" the docket when such an incident gets reported. Everyone is equal under the law, yeah right, just some people are more equal than others.

In the past I've worked at clubs for about 10 years, and yes, I have been locked up because I dragged a drunk fscker out who was throwing bottles and he complained I stepped on his face. Let me tell you something, police don't like bouncers.

I pity the police officers who have to listen to eh drunken rantings of people fighting in clubs and in streets.