Minimum take home income to live on your own?

[blunt]

I'm a recent father, child born Dec last year.

I shudder to think that daycare and so on is not too far away.

They do cost money, it's costing money to make sure she remains healthy, but that's something you do out of love and for some reason it doesn't register.

I would much rather go hungry and without internet and so on than see my baby not have what she needs.

Medical aid, gap cover, insurance policies, investments, general savings, and more. Those are just some of the things to have in place and it ends up costing a pretty penny.

If you don't start saving for your child now, you will have a hard time helping them go to uni in future.

I've got a 14 month old son and I agree the money thing does not concern me when it comes to him. childless people will never understand - because how can they?

I also used to have the smug "why do people have kids" attitude regarding costs etc. and could appreciate that parents love their children unconditionally but you really just don't get it and never will until you have one of your own. This is why I also think it's fine for childless people to remain childless because they can never comprehend what they are missing, and my heart breaks for people who have lost their children not because "they wanted children" but because of what that child meant to them.

Obviously you don't just pop out a bunch of kids without being able to afford it. I chose to send my son to a more expensive daycare due to concerns about covid safety etc. but at the end of the day that monthly payment is the least bothersome. I opened a bank account in his name at 3 months and EFT 2k a month into it, for now.

 

[Meister-Man]

Sure. This is straight out of my budget spreadsheet.

R 2 449	Medical Aid (myself)
R 2 449	Medical Aid (parent)
R 309	Car Insurance for a 2005 BMW (paid off)
R 88	Funeral Insurance (myself)
R 803	Life Cover (myself)
R 1 000	Electricity
R 500	Water
R 9 000	Rent
R 2 000	Groceries (for 2, but parent has own pension)
R 399	Connectivity

There's miscellaneous costs like bank fees (R90), prepaid airtime (R50), traveling costs (petrol) and ad-hoc costs that happen once yearly (car service, licenses, subscriptions, etc...), but it's few and far between.

Yeah I get that people want to go out, have fun, get drunk, get laid, etc... but I am not that person. I spend my time either reading, gaming or some other interest I have at the time.

Not directly related to this thread, nevertheless let me ask a question and give a comment.
Why life insurance if you don't have a spouse or kids, unless your parent is dependent on you?
Also, you seem like a very logical person, however what I see missing in your list is no insurance for if something happens to you.
I'm talking income protection, critical illness cover, disability. As you don't have a spouse or kids, if the shtf and something happens to you, you need some kind of insurance that will pay out so you can have someone care for you and you can continue living your life.

 

[r4nd0m]

Why life insurance if you don't have a spouse or kids, unless your parent is dependent on you?

Yes, my parent is dependent on me and the cover is primarily to look after them should something happen to me.

Apologies, my cover product is a composite which includes income, illness, disability and a small amount of funeral cover. I should have noted that, sorry.

 

[r4nd0m]

I also used to have the smug "why do people have kids" attitude regarding costs etc. and could appreciate that parents love their children unconditionally but you really just don't get it and never will until you have one of your own. This is why I also think it's fine for childless people to remain childless because they can never comprehend what they are missing, and my heart breaks for people who have lost their children not because "they wanted children" but because of what that child meant to them.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said in your post, but you do realize you feel differently due to biological and parenting forces, right?

When you were on the other side of the equation, you didn't have those forces affecting your thought process and could look at the situation without bias.

Neither side is the wrong side, but as with everything there are pros and cons.

Can I ask what was the catalyst that prompted you to have your child? Planned or unplanned? If planned, how did you view what you were knowingly getting yourself into.

 

[TofuMofu]

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said in your post, but you do realize you feel differently due to biological and parenting forces, right?

When you were on the other side of the equation, you didn't have those forces affecting your thought process and could look at the situation without bias.

Neither side is the wrong side, but as with everything there are pros and cons.

Can I ask what was the catalyst that prompted you to have your child? Planned or unplanned? If planned, how did you view what you were knowingly getting yourself into.

I'm with you on that. I personally don't want children. My brother has a child and that's enough child interaction for me lol.

Other than the world being fuked and this country being a schithole, I don't see the need to have children. I'd rather give all my attention and money to myself and my future than another human that will have to fend for itself eventually and I have enough stress in life.

Luckily, I'm gay so no accidents will change that

 

[r4nd0m]

Other than the world being fuked and this country being a schithole, I don't see the need to have children. I'd rather give all my attention and money to myself and my future than another human that will have to fend for itself eventually and I have enough stress in life.

We're regressing from the original thread topic, but I agree with this in part. Difficulty level of life with children is definitely upped and maybe there is a greater reward from it, but there's also that question of what your life amounts to towards the end.

Some say children fill the void because your legacy (genetic or otherwise) continues, but why is the aspect of living life for yourself (sans children and perhaps even spouse) seen as a lonely road with nothing at the end of it.

No one said you had to leave something behind, well except for the biological imperative. Humans are in no risk of dying out.

Life. Select your level of difficulty I guess?

 

[blunt]

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said in your post, but you do realize you feel differently due to biological and parenting forces, right?

When you were on the other side of the equation, you didn't have those forces affecting your thought process and could look at the situation without bias.

Neither side is the wrong side, but as with everything there are pros and cons.

Can I ask what was the catalyst that prompted you to have your child? Planned or unplanned? If planned, how did you view what you were knowingly getting yourself into.

Well that's actually the point i was trying to make as to how childless people will never understand, you can't experience the biological / parenting forces if you don't have a child - which is why it's fine to remain childless since you don't know any better. It's like trying to explain sexual attraction to an asexual maybe? You can appreciate / understand, but never know the feeling.

I always liked the idea of having a child but I was scared of the responsibility and getting out of my very convenient life that I had. The plan was to start trying this year but she got pregnant before that, so planned-unplanned I guess.

I also thought to myself pre-child obviously a person with a child is going to say they don't regret having it - but I don't - it's opened a new avenue of life that I didn't know.

I'm not going to lie and say I haven't been exhausted and irritated etc. but I've never felt regret about it.

Anyway back to original topic - minimum to live on your own.. heavily depends on where you wan't to live I suppose. Just try cater for a *bit* of enjoyment in your life - whatever that may be.

 

[blunt]

I'm with you on that. I personally don't want children. My brother has a child and that's enough child interaction for me lol.

Other than the world being fuked and this country being a schithole, I don't see the need to have children. I'd rather give all my attention and money to myself and my future than another human that will have to fend for itself eventually and I have enough stress in life.

Luckily, I'm gay so no accidents will change that

other peoples children are the worst

 

[cguy]

Well that's actually the point i was trying to make as to how childless people will never understand, you can't experience the biological / parenting forces if you don't have a child - which is why it's fine to remain childless since you don't know any better. It's like trying to explain sexual attraction to an asexual maybe? You can appreciate / understand, but never know the feeling.

I always liked the idea of having a child but I was scared of the responsibility and getting out of my very convenient life that I had. The plan was to start trying this year but she got pregnant before that, so planned-unplanned I guess.

I also thought to myself pre-child obviously a person with a child is going to say they don't regret having it - but I don't - it's opened a new avenue of life that I didn't know.

I'm not going to lie and say I haven't been exhausted and irritated etc. but I've never felt regret about it.

Anyway back to original topic - minimum to live on your own.. heavily depends on where you wan't to live I suppose. Just try cater for a *bit* of enjoyment in your life - whatever that may be.

That’s some pretty patronizing hogwash right there. Sure, many people who never wanted a kid wouldn’t choose to turn back the clock after the fact, but many would take that option any day by if they could.

The fact that someone can see that they would be in the latter camp beforehand isn’t some kind of ignorance as you make out, rather it’s a better sense of self. The fact that your concerns were limited to responsibility and convenience speaks volumes.

 

[blunt]

That’s some pretty patronizing hogwash right there. Sure, many people who never wanted a kid wouldn’t choose to turn back the clock after the fact, but many would take that option any day by if they could.

The fact that someone can see that they would be in the latter camp beforehand isn’t some kind of ignorance as you make out, rather it’s a better sense of self. The fact that your concerns were limited to responsibility and convenience speaks volumes.

You cannot understand what having a child is like without having your own child. Say what you like - it's the truth.

 

[blunt]

That’s some pretty patronizing hogwash right there. Sure, many people who never wanted a kid wouldn’t choose to turn back the clock after the fact, but many would take that option any day by if they could.

The fact that someone can see that they would be in the latter camp beforehand isn’t some kind of ignorance as you make out, rather it’s a better sense of self. The fact that your concerns were limited to responsibility and convenience speaks volumes.

and thanks for the patronising hogwash you sent back my way. I said I liked the idea of having a kid but my concerns were those two issues. I didn't think I needed to state the obvious that I had considered the rest of the things that go along with being a parent but just to clarify for you - yes I did, and the factors that were naking me hesitant were those two things.

I did not once say childless people are wrong - I said it's fine to remain childless since they honestly don't know.

Just like some would undo their child in a heartbeat I'm sure if some self enlightened geniuses that decided not to have a child ever ended up having one they may very well change their stance (edit - grammar)

 

[LetsDance]

A run of bad luck and it is easy to land up in desperate straits and that stress can cause illness further compounding your problems. I call that the f-loop where f does not stand for Fred. I escaped the f-loop (not without health and mental damage) only to find myself in it once more during the covid crisis. Thankfully I had savings to get me through and now I have income coming in again.

 

[3WA]

My brother has a child and that's enough child interaction for me lol.

This. Unclehood is the best. You can train them in your ways, then hand them over if/when they schit themselves.

 

[cguy]

You cannot understand what having a child is like without having your own child. Say what you like - it's the truth.

That’s nonsense.

 

[KOPITE]

Well that's actually the point i was trying to make as to how childless people will never understand, you can't experience the biological / parenting forces if you don't have a child - which is why it's fine to remain childless since you don't know any better. It's like trying to explain sexual attraction to an asexual maybe? You can appreciate / understand, but never know the feeling.

I always liked the idea of having a child but I was scared of the responsibility and getting out of my very convenient life that I had. The plan was to start trying this year but she got pregnant before that, so planned-unplanned I guess.

I also thought to myself pre-child obviously a person with a child is going to say they don't regret having it - but I don't - it's opened a new avenue of life that I didn't know.

I'm not going to lie and say I haven't been exhausted and irritated etc. but I've never felt regret about it.

Anyway back to original topic - minimum to live on your own.. heavily depends on where you wan't to live I suppose. Just try cater for a *bit* of enjoyment in your life - whatever that may be.

My daughter is 10 and I love her to bits, would have never known what it would feel like not having my own. Wifey is at the age of deciding it’s now or never to have the 2nd one. We have been undecided for a few years now and for many reasons.

Having the energy, patience, commitment, time, money, and of course the most important is love. We have both agreed that we happy the way we are in just having 1. Yes I know it’s hard seeing them growing up alone, but see has cousins that are very close bonded.

One thing I regret is not going for the 2nd one within 5 years of my daughter. Times are really tough now and the way the country is going, I would think twice of bringing another child into this world.

I’ve been told that I am selfish and this stuck to me till this day. I hate it when people don’t live their own lives, but want to tell other what they must do. Recently paid off both our cars and the only big expense is our bond. So we have abit of money to go on holiday or spoil my family.

I always prefer quality over quantity

 

[KOPITE]

I admire those folks who live on peanuts and can still survive, no offense to anyone. Once you get older you realise money becomes less of a chase. I always believe by balancing your spending and saving you can still enjoy life and also have some savings when you retire. Like some have said, most people live from hand to mouth which is really depressing and sucking the life out of you.

Try to live to work instead of working to live. We only live once and create those memories instead of stressing amount money problems and debts.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

This. Unclehood is the best. You can train them in your ways, then hand them over if/when they schit themselves.

I'm an uncle four times. Never really liked kids, they annoyed me. Whenever my nieces and nephews would come visit, they made straight for my consoles and insist that I play with them. Most irritating thing ever. I tolerated them and love them because they are family, but if it was anyone else's kids I would have told them to gtfo and take their animals with them.

After getting married I told the wife that I don't want kids. A few years into it, I had what some might call an existential crisis. What's the point of it all? What's the point of living and working your ass off, only to be forgotten and leave your schit to the thieving government or some random charity who couldn't give a crap about you either.

So we had a kid. I can't say that my position on kids in general has changed, but I love my own one to bits. When he hugs you or smiles at you like you mean the world to him, there's no better feeling.

Of course I'm not deluded and know to expect plenty of schit when he gets older, but take it as a challenge to be a better father and would like to believe that we'd be in a position to grow together as mates. Now I can't wait for him to get older so we can game together and generally just do stuff together that mates would.

If people don't want kids, that's cool, I understand. Just putting it out there that when it's your own, it really is different...

 

[Splinter]

I think, based on the comments of some people who have decided to remain childless, that they expect to save insane amounts of money and live a hedonistic life of pure joy and selfishness. And then when they are too old they will have enough to just relax and die comfortably.

What I'm finding though with my peers is that you do need community and you can find that in creating a family.
The kids might end up being a disappointment but your money will never have empathy for you when you lose your mind.

Having kids is not necessarily the answer to this problem but ultimately involving yourself in the lives of others will go a long way.

That's where nephews and nieces are the bomb

You get to switch them on and off as well.

 

[Splinter]

This. Unclehood is the best. You can train them in your ways, then hand them over if/when they schit themselves.

I see I was late to the party with my own comment

 

[Sepeng]

We're regressing from the original thread topic, but I agree with this in part. Difficulty level of life with children is definitely upped and maybe there is a greater reward from it, but there's also that question of what your life amounts to towards the end.

Some say children fill the void because your legacy (genetic or otherwise) continues, but why is the aspect of living life for yourself (sans children and perhaps even spouse) seen as a lonely road with nothing at the end of it.

No one said you had to leave something behind, well except for the biological imperative. Humans are in no risk of dying out.

Life. Select your level of difficulty I guess?

Ja look, I've got kids but I do disagree with us parents that tell others "you can never know what it feels like". I mean it might technically be true but for example I've got two kids - can I tell the guy with only 1 "well you'll never know what having two kids is like"? I'll also never know what it's like to have 3 children. Or 7.
I've got a boy and a girl - my son will never know what it's like to have a brother; daughter will never know what it's like to have a sister. Are their lives & experiences diminished by this fact?
Fact is, every choice comes with consequences and sacrifices. I get to do less stuff because of my children. Both by choice and circumstances. Not saying I don't do stuff, but it's simply less than if I didn't have children. My best mate watched Liverpool beat Barcelona live couple years back; I'd have been there with him but I watching my son play his first soccer match. Who's experience was the more rewarding? Well easy, it was his, obviously! but I'm OK with that - made my choices, happy with the outcome. That's all we can ask really - people make their own decisions and must be comfortable with the consequences.