Mirror (non)Trading International 3 - Freemasons,Russians,and no bitcoins

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r00igev@@r

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Step back for a moment and conside I'm not arguing probabilities I'm discussing reality / fact in terms of due process. The provincial liquidation order didn't determine or make a finding on either. Surely, until such time as a civil or criminal action determines as such the liquidators cannot simply assume it's one or the other?
They would have to have provided sufficient proof for the order or else anyone can arbitrarily liquidate a company.

Edit: In this case I think MTI was missing in action so it was a default? Where was @Dr Ong 's buddy? Was he given a signed mandate by Johann and if not then then its tickets for MTI as it will go through without any holdups.
Remember there is no requirement to prove a case without a doubt. That is a separate matter for SAPS.
 
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quovadis

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They would have to have provided sufficient proof for the order or else anyone can arbitrarily liquidate a company.

Edit: In this case I think MTI was missing in action so it was a default? Where was @Dr Ong 's buddy? Was he given a signed mandate by Johann and if not then then its tickets for MTI as it will go through without any holdups.
Remember there is no requirement to prove a case without a doubt. That is a separate matter for SAPS.

My argument is not about probability. It's about what is fact and due process. You're arguing as if the facts of the matter have actually been tested - they have not. There has not been a determination and that's my argument.
 

r00igev@@r

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My argument is not about probability. It's about what is fact and due process. You're arguing as if the facts of the matter have actually been tested - they have not. There has not been a determination and that's my argument.
If MTI does not rock up to dispute those facts then it is a mute point. A "depositor" is not MTI. Its Johann or someone duly authorized by him. Pieta can object until the cows come home.
The orders will stand by default.
 

quovadis

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If MTI does not rock up to dispute those facts then it is a mute point. A "depositor" is not MTI. Its Johann or someone duly authorized by him. Pieta can object until the cows come home.
The orders will stand by default.
You're not getting it. RIGHT NOW AS OF THIS MINUTE, Should the value of an investors claim be based on a scenario determined by lawful finding or a possible scenario which hasn't been tested?
 

warrenpridgeon

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View attachment 984528

MY SUPER POWER WAS NOT INVESTING (DONATING) TO MTI!

From the concerned investors group (if grant could do a SShot for posterity and confirmation it would be cool):
Just received this now from a member of one the the groups I was kicked out of . This guy and his up lines pulled TENS OF MILLIONS out of MTI. Name is Ian Simons

Hi Everyone,

Many of you may know that I am an optimistic person who always sees the good in people and life in general.

Due to recent events and the successful application for the liquidation of MTI in the high court here in Cape Town, I have made a choice to move on. The fate of our bitcoin essentially lies with the judiciary.

I have to remain true to myself and my optimistic nature which simply means that I need to move forward with my life and not keep looking over my shoulder.

I feel truly grateful for all the wonderful friendships that I have been blessed with during this past year. This is farewell, not goodbye!

I am not walking away from any friendships, I am simply just moving on to greener pastures.

For those of you who would like to remain in contact with me please do so privately, I look forward to many positive and encouraging conversations in the future.

I will be removing myself from all MTI groups and closing the groups that I created on the 31st of December this year.

I will start the new year in a positive way!

I will be posting the links for the various groups, Team EPIC Telegram group, Team EPIC Q&A group and the Official MTI Telegram group. Feel free to join those groups should you choose to do so.

May you all have the most wonderful end to this interesting, to say the least, year, and a fantastically happy and fruitful 2021.

Top form. "Sorry oaks, made my bucks! Cheers! Gxd Blxss, Mxch Sxccxss!"
 

Wary GOM

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Please humour me for a minute and perhaps you can provide a view or opinion.

Hypothetically, as it currently stands there are two scenarios/versions of the MTI sage (whether true or false they are arguably not determined legally).
  1. MTI is a legitimate business with regulation and license issues and probable transgressions of various laws. Notwithstanding that, they have asserted that they are a victim of deception by a single actor and perhaps accomplice(s), the entire scheme is legitimate but cannot continue as they may have fled with the member’s pooled funds.
  2. MTI is criminal enterprise and ponzi that deceived its members and that many are complicit in this scheme some more than others.
My concern is this - In the absence of a legal determination of either then surely the value of the claim which is submitted by the investors to the liquidators as part of the nomination process and possible claims process would be the balance outstanding amount including any interest/bonuses etc up until the date of provisional liquidation?

Surely that would the be status quo in terms of the liquidators until such time as the facts are determined at which time the claims would be revised accordingly in line with recoveries of such schemes?
Agree that the amount claimed should be the balance at the date of provisional liquidation.

For me, though, the issue is how can anyone know the actual amount of bitcoin in any wallet controlled by MTI/Js or whoever? For many pages on this thread we have assumed that the member balances as shown on their backend reports are pure fiction, created by JS's trade demonstrator ("Superbot")! Only the amounts show in the leak seem to have any reality, and possibly not even those.
 

Sinbad

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I have to laugh at a lot of the cognitive dissonance on display.

"zomg bitcoin r future because it's anonymous and untraceable and unregulated and bad authorities and bad government and bad laws and and and"

"zomg they stoled my bitcoin authorities please step in and get mah bitconz back for me because they broke teh law"
 

r00igev@@r

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You're not getting it. RIGHT NOW AS OF THIS MINUTE, Should the value of an investors claim be based on a scenario determined by lawful finding or a possible scenario which hasn't been tested?
You need to brush up on commercial law, boet. You don't need any of that. All you need to do is convince a judge that you are most likely telling the truth. You do not need to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt (although that will help!). A person can use the MTILeaks data and if MTI does not rock up in court to dispute that with a reasonable explanation then there is no reason for the Judge not to believe it.

That is right now but if the FSCA issues a finding that MTI's taking of deposits is illegal (which I assume it will do), then the current shenanigans are mute. In that case, but I would need to consult the brilliant legal mind of @Dr Ong 's friend, it all defaults to the state if recovered?
 

r00igev@@r

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I have to laugh at a lot of the cognitive dissonance on display.

"zomg bitcoin r future because it's anonymous and untraceable and unregulated and bad authorities and bad government and bad laws and and and"

"zomg they stoled my bitcoin authorities please step in and get mah bitconz back for me because they broke teh law"
Hugo, bel die polisie!!! :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
 

quovadis

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Agree that the amount claimed should be the balance at the date of provisional liquidation.

For me, though, the issue is how can anyone know the actual amount of bitcoin in any wallet controlled by MTI/Js or whoever? For many pages on this thread we have assumed that the member balances as shown on their backend reports are pure fiction, created by JS's trade demonstrator ("Superbot")! Only the amounts show in the leak seem to have any reality, and possibly not even those.
Agreed but in the absence of current knowledge the investors can only rely on a statement until such time as it is determined that they are pure fiction.
 
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