Mirror (non)Trading International 3 - Freemasons,Russians,and no bitcoins

[GrigoryRasputin]

Any news on JS whereabouts? No way he wil come out alive out of Brazil.

 

[Ice Ice Baby]

Any news on JS whereabouts? No way he wil come out alive out of Brazil.

Next they will say JS is dead. All part of the exit plan.

 

[Wary GOM]

Extending Duane's posting of Charlie-boy's and Ice Ice Baby's comments, Nerina certainly is aware that she isn't the most popular person named Nerina in Polokwane otherwise why the security guard on her car? [The one that was bought with the money "invested" by MTI sheeple!].

It is enough just to live in South Africa with the crime situation, but hopefully the MTI scammers (at whatever level) now have an extra level of concern. Spend generously on security companies - the economy needs more stimulus. I guess the invitation on behalf of Free State folks to Charlie-boy also extends to other main-lining scammers? After all, Free Staters are generous and open-hearted but definitely don't like being scammed.

 

[Wary GOM]

On the concerned investors group. She was another "Admin" on the MTI Tech Support group. One of the "everyone remain calm and everything will be FINE... I promise... Just Trust... Gxb Blxss, Mxch Sxccxss".
View attachment 984978

People aren't having any of it anymore:
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Oh ... and it's never the super shills fault:
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It amazes me how many of these people think like this:
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What a confirmed scammer! THESE are the people that have to be hammered. The real professionals are probably too far gone to change anyway. It is these scammers that are able to convince their communities, church groups, kid's parent groups and whatever to bet on yet another scam.

 

[Wary GOM]

Any news on JS whereabouts? No way he wil come out alive out of Brazil.

THAT is why they are agreeing that Brazil was his destination. FAR more dangerous than RSA. Poor Johan, he cracked under the pressure, went into hiding until he could square things with investors and now some Brazilian thug has killed him for his Rolex.

 

[Spxdxrbxtxs]

Guys, please can you add Nerina Steynberg to the people involved list on dishonest.com?

Following this since Jan and I can tell you there is almost nothing on her. maybe property in her name etc but def not the person they make her out to be..

I mean add her by all means there just isnt going to be much

I'm sure in time we will uncover more info. She plays a bigger role in Johann's dissapearance.

Until the final MTI letter and apart from her link to Johann and withdrawals, she's been very low-key.
I find it suspicious that MTI who called out anyone who attended an event as a trainer or head of something or slotted them in as admin would have kept her involvement quiet.
The security is understandable considering the threats members have made.

And as for a lack of missing persons report, it's not enough on it's own to warrant a section.
Same with Rademan - there's no data as yet to include him and lack of evidence of a friendship is not enough.

Nerina is in the wiki in the stats download and on Johann's profile.

Rademan is shown in the CIPC director change details on the MTI page.

 

[Wary GOM]

Until the final MTI letter and apart from her link to Johann and withdrawals, she's been very low-key.
I find it suspicious that MTI who called out anyone who attended an event as a trainer or head of something or slotted them in as admin would have kept her involvement quiet.
The security is understandable considering the threats members have made.

And as for a lack of missing persons report, it's not enough on it's own to warrant a section.
Same with Rademan - there's no data as yet to include him and lack of evidence of a friendship is not enough.

Nerina is in the wiki in the stats download and on Johann's profile.

Rademan is shown in the CIPC director change details on the MTI page.

Agree fully. Let's keep the wiki as solid as possible. It has to be one of the best documents prepared on a ponzi before the scheme goes titsup so don't now weaken it.

 

[notayoba]

So what I've learned recently is that besides these crazy crypto based Ponzi schemes, Pyramid schemes, which are obviously scams, the entire "legitimate" MLM "industry" is basically just as bad and often indistinguishable from them. They all exhibit the same magical thinking and the same cult-like behaviour.

I've seen it my whole life in South Africa, Amway, Herbalife etc etc. These people are stealing billions every year from ordinary people. We need to keep educating people about them and re-educating them and go after them. They're predatory capitalists who are causing a lot of damage.

Home | Pyramid Scheme Alert

The first international organization to expose, study and prevent pyramid schemes.

pyramidschemealert.org

Search for an ebook called 'Merchants of deception'.
A great read about the 'legit' mlm schemes like Amway and how the top shills really make money. This type of thing has been a thorn in my side for a long time. Many a friendship compromised or destroyed because of pushy mlm marketing.

 

[ZA_Witcher]

Imagine if the investors start suing their big uplines for money that would be a MASSIVE loss for all those shills...

 

[Willie Trombone]

Imagine if the investors start suing their big uplines for money that would be a MASSIVE loss for all those shills...

Nice thought but it would be easy to "lose" the keys to your wallets. Plausible deniability and all that. Crypto comes with risks and until it's regulated it comes with a huge buyer beware disclaimer.

Many more will be scammed in future.

 

[notayoba]

THAT is why they are agreeing that Brazil was his destination. FAR more dangerous than RSA. Poor Johan, he cracked under the pressure, went into hiding until he could square things with investors and now some Brazilian thug has killed him for his Rolex.

I think they need to bring the turquoise shirt into play. Either he got killed for his snazzy golf shirt (no rolex), or the kidnappers mail the shirt as proof they got him.

 

[am-user]

If you look at the leak, there are 3 possible email addresses for Cryptoanalyzer.
2212969,xnxlxzxrcrxptx@gmxxl.cxm - this is confirmed as his email address and is in the top 100 BTC withdrawers at 38 BTC with a pyramid of 658 users.
3291713,kxrxn@crxptxxnxlxzxr.xk - this is an email address from his website - him or his wife?
6030921,crxptxxnxlxzxr001@gmxxl.cxm - unsure if this is his.

@ab-user - can you see what the deposits and withdrawals totaled for these 3?

detail


Summary

<sarcasm>Nice! 49 BTC for 11</sarcasm>

 

[Decor13]

And despite the warning that the "get your money back" video is a scam, people are still trying ??!!

 

[PrinceVlad]

You need to brush up on commercial law, boet. You don't need any of that. All you need to do is convince a judge that you are most likely telling the truth. You do not need to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt (although that will help!). A person can use the MTILeaks data and if MTI does not rock up in court to dispute that with a reasonable explanation then there is no reason for the Judge not to believe it.

That is right now but if the FSCA issues a finding that MTI's taking of deposits is illegal (which I assume it will do), then the current shenanigans are mute. In that case, but I would need to consult the brilliant legal mind of @Dr Ong 's friend, it all defaults to the state if recovered?

Quite correct. Any civil case works on the basis that it should be proved on a balance of probabilities. This means the plaintiffs version is compared to the defendant's version and a finding is made on which version is more probable.

For example, plaintiff could say that MTI is a Ponzi and MTI could say they weren't and they were using a bot. If no bot is shown to exist, it's more probable that it was a ponzi and a finding will be made based on that.

That is, however, when there are 2 versions before court. In this case there is only one, which means any evidence as to MTIs shady dealings is uncontested and when made final the effect will be that the evidence is accepted as true.

The interesting thing is that, even if they do pitch up on the return date, which they won't, the order should still be made because in such an event its decided on the respondents version and they can't deny that they didn't pay out.

 

[quovadis]

Quite correct. Any civil case works on the basis that it should be proved on a balance of probabilities. This means the plaintiffs version is compared to the defendant's version and a finding is made on which version is more probable.

For example, plaintiff could say that MTI is a Ponzi and MTI could say they weren't and they were using a bot. If no bot is shown to exist, it's more probable that it was a ponzi and a finding will be made based on that.

That is, however, when there are 2 versions before court. In this case there is only one, which means any evidence as to MTIs shady dealings is uncontested and when made final the effect will be that the evidence is accepted as true.

The interesting thing is that, even if they do pitch up on the return date, which they won't, the order should still be made because in such an event its decided on the respondents version and they can't deny that they didn't pay out.

My point which R00i was responding to was that there has been no finding at the time of provincial liquidation that MTI is anything but possibly insolvent. That doesn’t negate the fact there’s mountains of evidence supporting mti being a fraudulent scheme etc. My question though to you earlier today was does that not make it problematic that any potential liquidator has based certain assumptions on determinations still to be made by due process? Ie. Determining value of a creditors claim.

 

[PrinceVlad]

My point which R00i was responding to was that there has been no finding at the time of provincial liquidation that MTI is anything but possibly insolvent. That doesn’t negate the fact there’s mountains of evidence supporting mti being a fraudulent scheme etc. My question though to you earlier today was does that not make it problematic that any potential liquidator has based certain assumptions on determinations still to be made by due process? Ie. Determining value of a creditors claim.

I get what you're saying. The only test during liquidation proceedings are the insolvency of the respondent. Thus, that should be proven on a balance of probabilities.

Irrespective of the cause of the insolvency a creditors claim remains the same, but the question of how to recoup the money relies on the question whether it was a ponzi.

In other words, the value of a creditors claim stays the same but how the liquidator will go about raising money for the body of creditors will differ.

 

[Snyper564]

Glad to know we made a difference

 

[4Snoopy]

Wondering if the private investigators are getting any useful information from the listing devices they installed/planted at the “Ponzi Place” in Durban during the “Ponzi Queens” absence.

 

[supersunbird]

This thread has educated me A LOT about Ponzi Schemes. Kudus to all that have posted here .

Kudos, now you learned even more .

 

[Snyper564]

Negotiate with the scammers? that would assume you have something they want... they have your BTC.. you have nothing they want....


#thXsXppl