Mirror Trading International

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r00igev@@r

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There was a discussion about zoom questions for Johann. Mine is this.

If I solicit a prostitute and pay her in bitcoin, am I breaking the law? In all the garbage you talk about in your motivational speeches, you say bitcoin is unregulated, hence you can do anything you want with it. Using bitcoin in a PONZI is a crime as much as using mandelas in a PONZI is a crime.
 

Waldman Jordaan

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Well, we do have a risk here of going wildly off-topic, but we can address it a little bit.

No idea, to be perfectly honest. I suppose we can compare this perhaps to a gambling addiction (or to some extent any other kind of addiction). Why do so many gamblers lose everything they have, and yet they keep going back, hoping to hit that jackpot again? Getting scammed is most likely not an addiction thing, but there do seem to be similarities nonetheless. This also does touch upon the idea of freewill (which is why I said we can go very far off-topic), and thus whether someone who has been scammed before and keeps on falling for scams is actively choosing to do so. I don't know.
None of us are in control of the chemical and/or electrical signals happening in our brains, and since those are the very things that control absolutely everything about how our bodies operate, it makes it very difficult to gauge whether any of us can really choose anything. So, does someone choose to get scammed again and again, do they not care, etc etc? I really dunno.
You see, it's easy for us to assume that someone who has been scammed would have learned a lesson. We assume it's the same as a child who might put their hand on a hot stove, get burned, and then never do it again. But I'm not so convinced that it's quite that simple.

As for the scammers...well, they clearly have no sense of morality and certainly no empathy. But again, are they in control of how they operate...are they really choosing to scam people over and over? I'm not sure.
But even if we don't truly have freewill, the fact is that Cheri & Co. are still an objective threat to the well-being of others, and therefore should be stopped.
What makes things worse in this case is the fact that these scammers have not been met with any consequences. Some people will do something crappy, see what the consequences are to others, and then not do it again. But that latter part requires empathy. Cheri and her goons have destroyed so many lives, but they just don't care. As long as they can enrich themselves, they'll just keep on doing it again and again.


Oh, just to add....the thing I'm more puzzled by are the people who are investing into MTI, and they know (or at least have a reasonably good suspicion) that it is a scam. What they are doing is hoping to make a quick buck whilst they can before it collapses.
The matter of freewill aside, I put these people in the same camp as the scammers. They might not be stealing as much as the scammers, but they are stealing nonetheless.
Thanks @Venator for stimulating as well as broadening my mind. We can always learn from one another.

I don't think its off topic at all. In order to fulfill what we all set out to do here, which is basically helping those that do not recognize MTI for the Ponzi that it is?

Not sure if you saw the text which I added afterwards, namely:
"This then brings me to more questions in my mind:

Lets say that there exist something like a 'Serial Victim' and a Serial Scammer' and they cannot help 'their condition or fate', why do we have more sympathy for the 'Serial Victims' than for the 'Serial Scammers'?

If neither can see the error in their ways, should we then not try and help both 'Serial Victims' and 'Serial Scammers'?

OR, are they both lost to any 'help' and we can at best hope to only help the section of Victims who aren't fish and just maybe are able to climb that tree?"


Anyway, if all of us 'reasonable logically and morally sane' people understand better who we can help understand, we may get less frustrated along the way and focus more on the group which can be 'helped'.

Whatever we learn here with MTI, will certainly also help to bring down any future Ponzi once identified.

We also need to ascertain which governmental body or sanctioned body is responsible for investigating and prosecuting Ponzi's in SA then we can go directly there the next time one comes to the fore and hopefully stop it before it gets as hugely successful.
 

r00igev@@r

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I'm not too phased if they still don't get proper jailtime
I think this thread,and the mainstream news stuff has reached a critical point where their names will be so marred that any future attempts at the same crap will be met with laughter

The blank slates and more obscure references while damning are too hard to spot for Joe Public
The top tier is going to go Darwin on us. Marks is going to buy a ski boat and its going to topple over on him. I don't know if its natural selection or some higher being balancing good and evil.
There is one exception, Keith Richards.
 

Venator

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Not sure if you saw the text which I added afterwards, namely:
"This then brings me to more questions in my mind:

Lets say that there exist something like a 'Serial Victim' and a Serial Scammer' and they cannot help 'their condition or fate', why do we have more sympathy for the 'Serial Victims' than for the 'Serial Scammers'?

If neither can see the error in their ways, should we then not try and help both 'Serial Victims' and 'Serial Scammers'?

OR, are they both lost to any 'help' and we can at best hope to only help the section of Victims who aren't fish and just maybe are able to climb that tree?"


Anyway, if all of us 'reasonable logically and morally sane' people understand better who we can help understand, we may get less frustrated along the way and focus more on the group which can be 'helped'.

Whatever we learn here with MTI, will certainly also help to bring down any future Ponzi once identified.

We also need to ascertain which governmental body or sanctioned body is responsible for investigating and prosecuting Ponzi's in SA then we can go directly there the next time one comes to the fore and hopefully stop it before it gets as huge and influential.

Sorry, no, I didn't see that.

Yeah that touches upon the idea of how a prison system ought to work. Countries like Denmark are more focused on rehabilitating criminals to enter back into society, rather than "punishing" them per se.
I'd say that I'm more inclined to want to help the victims, but it's difficult to say exactly where our social and moral responsibilities lie here. Perhaps it's more of a moral virtue to want to help those on both sides, rather than a moral duty.
What I do think, however, is that anyone who has a deep appreciation for morality and ethics will automatically feel somewhat of a compulsion to want to help others, in particular those who get completely blindsided by these scams.
It's just such a shame that there are people out there who think that those of us who try to help are just a bunch of keyboard warriors, or crusaders, or have whatever variation of a Messiah complex. That there must be some sort of self-serving scheme at play.
No, we're just not a bunch of narcissistic a**holes. We care about people because empathy towards one another and working as a society is a huge factor as to why our species has been able to thrive.

/rant
 

daneard

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Not sure if OneCoin has been mentioned here, but I just watched a short video on YouTube.... eerily similar to MTI, with different (seemingly smarter) characters. All the same red flags

Edit: hadn't finished watching it. It is basically identical, all the way down to "us v them", "cult mentality" and no amount of evidence changed the victims/ investors minds .... good watch

 
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Venator

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Not sure if OneCoin has been mentioned here, but I just watched a short video on YouTube.... eerily similar to MTI, with different (seemingly smarter) characters. All the same red flags

Edit: hadn't finished watching it. It is basically identical, all the way down to "us v them", "cult mentality" and no amount of evidence changed the victims/ investors minds .... good watch


The last part is especially true.....that cult mentality...the idea that Big Government, Big Bank, everyone is "against the movement" or are just a bunch of sheeple who can't see the lies they've been told by the financial institutions. It's amazing to see how people as a whole just keep falling for the same thing over and over.
 

quovadis

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There was a discussion about zoom questions for Johann. Mine is this.

If I solicit a prostitute and pay her in bitcoin, am I breaking the law? In all the garbage you talk about in your motivational speeches, you say bitcoin is unregulated, hence you can do anything you want with it. Using bitcoin in a PONZI is a crime as much as using mandelas in a PONZI is a crime.

Thank you for your very important question. We at MTI do not dictate what you do with your bitcoin. The solicitation is illegal and not the payment method. ;)
 

PsyWulf

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Look,Collectively the individuals named here have like 100years+ combined in just about every MLM type that was popular at the time
Between fuel additives,"health"/lifestyle products,Travel discounts,Investments and finally Bitcoin-ish-something-but-not-really
Every business being greater and more amazing than the next,life-changing,super-dee-duper

But,where every time they were just rungs in the ladders for international MLMs (as much as they claimed everytime how amazing the business/product/life was,they bided their time and learnt the intricacies involved), after which they chipped in collective efforts and started their own-homebrewed ones where they can be the top-tiers rather than enriching others,they almost cracked it with BTC Global which seems to be the first iteration at the original model - almost the penultimate SA ponzi.
A named but pseudonymous trader did all the trading,and you could share in the profits! - ended with 28 000 people in pain

But all the top "members" took the profits from there and dumped it right into their next venture,MTI,along with a few other MLM fans
 

Venator

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Thank you for your very important question. We at MTI do not dictate what you do with your bitcoin. The solicitation is illegal and not the payment method. ;)

Hence why the offering of any financial services without a valid license to do so and without any regulation is the issue with MTI, not the fact that they use Bitcoin.
 

quovadis

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Hence why the offering of any financial services without a valid license to do so and without any regulation is the issue with MTI, not the fact that they use Bitcoin.

What I’m pointing out is the question and answer jokingly given would suffice to the beetle headed Ponzi zombies.
 

Venator

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What I’m pointing out is the question and answer jokingly given would suffice to the beetle headed Ponzi zombies.
haha yeah, I knew (or at least suspected) that you were being sarcastic. Was just giving the reason why that argument was invalid.
 

Venator

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.

Do any of them ever witness the fallout aftermath?

That's the thing that really annoys me about people not paying attention. Whenever these scams collapse, you hardly ever see the shills losing everything, their house, their marriages, etc. No, they just move on and promote the next scam...always landing on their feet afterwards (unless the law actually does what it's suppose to do and put them behind bars).
 

quovadis

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haha yeah, I knew (or at least suspected) that you were being sarcastic. Was just giving the reason why that argument was invalid.

If it were me i would be hammering home the whole point of BTC - transparency. So why aren’t the wallets public to allow people to watch their BTC grow?
 

r00igev@@r

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Thank you for your very important question. We at MTI do not dictate what you do with your bitcoin. The solicitation is illegal and not the payment method. ;)
But that is not what you say. You say bitcoin in unregulated, hence MTI needs no regulations.
Like if I buy a car with bitcoin, why do I need a license?
If a sell mother-in-law curry bunnies accepting bitcoin why do I need to confirm to the health regulations.
Like why do I need to confirm to the regulations against solicitation when I use exactly the same reason you use to show the FSCA the middle finger about financial services???
There is no difference between what MTI does and a escort doing a trick.
 
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