Mirror Trading International

[warrenpridgeon]

I put in a tip off to the SARB. Don't yet know about SARS. Only thing I can think of is the capital gains tax that an individual is making and not reporting, But I don't know that.
Any other thing, I'm all ears.
BTW: SARS is not hungry else they would get Sirril to reverse the smokes and dop ban.

Sort of... but SARS definitely has a horse in this race... especially with the people who ARE withdrawing funds into their bank accounts as ZAR... Those that are getting BTC out and keeping BTC and not converting to fiat are semi safe for now.

Those people buying cars and houses... DEFINITELY have to account for where that money came from.

There's a big risk for people who went and bought BTC, "invested" into this and got out BTC and converted back to fiat... They COULD find themselves have to return the funds if there is legal action taken at some point... I'm not sure whether it would extend to BTC though. Basically... if you get money by stealing it and you get caught you have to "pay back the money".

 

[Snyper564]

I put in a tip off to the SARB. Don't yet know about SARS. Only thing I can think of is the capital gains tax that an individual is making and not reporting, But I don't know that.
Any other thing, I'm all ears.
BTW: SARS is not hungry else they would get Sirril to reverse the smokes and dop ban.

It's not cgt or atleast not likely,due to the fact that it's held for less than 3 years. There is more to this but it's more likely income tax not cgt.

Essentially,this if I put in 1 btc and get say 0.2btc back. And let's say the initial btc cost 150k and when the 1.2 btc they get 175k back. They will need to pay income tax at their bracket on the 25k. I can assure you that their leaders cashing out btc to buy their cars and homes need to pay income tax on this

Hypothetically legit business there is serious tax to be paid here.

 

[r00igev@@r]

It's not cgt or atleast not likely,due to the fact that it's held for less than 3 years. There is more to this but it's more likely income tax not cgt.

Essentially,this if I put in 1 btc and get say 0.2btc back. And let's say the initial btc cost 150k and when the 1.2 btc they get 175k back. They will need to pay income tax at their bracket on the 25k. I can assure you that their leaders cashing out btc to buy their cars and homes need to pay income tax on this

Hypothetically legit business there is serious tax to be paid here.

How do they convert the btc to Rands to pay for the cars and homes? Luno? Don't they hold tax back or do they just pay and send an IT3b?

 

[warrenpridgeon]

It's not cgt or atleast not likely,due to the fact that it's held for less than 3 years. There is more to this but it's more likely income tax not cgt.

Essentially,this if I put in 1 btc and get say 0.2btc back. And let's say the initial btc cost 150k and when the 1.2 btc they get 175k back. They will need to pay income tax at their bracket on the 25k. I can assure you that their leaders cashing out btc to buy their cars and homes need to pay income tax on this

Hypothetically legit business there is serious tax to be paid here.

Yep... If you hold it for long between buying it with Zar and selling it for Zar again it falls under CGT.
If you hold it for shorter periods it should be declared as part of your regular income and contribute to "normal" tax calculations.

I.e. if you buy 1 BTC at R160 000... Put it into the scheme... and get back 0.5 BTC which you sell for R80 000 and put that R80 000 into your bank account within a couple of months you just made an income of R80 000. Theoretically you should end up registering as a provisional tax payer at this point as you are now getting an income outside of your regular paycheck (if you are employed). But for simple terms it should be added onto your normal incomes for the year.

 

[warrenpridgeon]

How do they convert the btc to Rands to pay for the cars and homes? Luno? Don't they hold tax back or do they just pay and send an IT3b?

If you could find someone who will accept BTC direct and sign their car over they COULD do it like that... Otherwise they will need to sell it for ZAR to use the normal financial system to purchase services/goods.

That COULD be through LUNO or they could use other exchanges that allow you to withdraw ZAR to your account...
They could also be sending hand to hand, i.e. someone EFTs them R160 000 and they send them the relevant amount of BTC.

There are also some "crypto" debit/credit cards which could also be used... I.e. you put BTC in there and when you swipe it it converts to ZAR at that point.

In these situations the money that has changed hands is actually taxable.

 

[Snyper564]

How do they convert the btc to Rands to pay for the cars and homes? Luno? Don't they hold tax back or do they just pay and send an IT3b?

I do loads of crypto trading. They can cash out via a number of exchanges luno and valr being the biggest. These exchanges also pay out the full amount. It is then upto the individual to pay tax on it. I am a provisional tax payer because of this. There is also no it3b etc.

 

[Snyper564]

If you could find someone who will accept BTC direct and sign their car over they COULD do it like that... Otherwise they will need to sell it for ZAR to use the normal financial system to purchase services/goods.

That COULD be through LUNO or they could use other exchanges that allow you to withdraw ZAR to your account...
They could also be sending hand to hand, i.e. someone EFTs them R160 000 and they send them the relevant amount of BTC.

There are also some "crypto" debit/credit cards which could also be used... I.e. you put BTC in there and when you swipe it it converts to ZAR at that point.

In these situations the money that has changed hands is actually taxable.

Yeah the btc cards would make this the most complicated situation as the gain is indeed taxable but is super difficult to track. Essentially if you bought the btc for 150 but you now buy a car for the same btc value which is now 170 the 20k increase is still taxable

 

[warrenpridgeon]

I do loads of crypto trading. They can cash out via a number of exchanges luno and valr being the biggest. These exchanges also pay out the full amount. It is then upto the individual to pay tax on it. I am a provisional tax payer because of this. There is also no it3b etc.

Exactly this... Crypto earnings are not "free money", as soon as you put it into fiat is where you have to account for where the money came from.

I've gotten business account at Luno so I can accept payments in BTC. But yes... complicated if you get R100K as BTC and cash it out 2 weeks later at R105K... Can probably declare it as trading profits and income... Ergo all taxable as part of the business operating incomes.

 

[Cray]

Haha. This is hilarious. The only credible evidence is "private".

Love how he has how own pinned comment with a link to join MTI with his own referral code, so much for a disinterested, non-partisan review...

 

[warrenpridgeon]

Love how he has how own pinned comment with a link to join MTI with his own referral code, so much for a disinterested, non-partisan review...

LOL! Most of the YouTube people supporting it have clickbait titles "Scheme fails" , "MTI crumbles!" and then they talk about stuff, say it's rubbish, say "I trust Johan", show their backoffice (with like $1000 ... LOL!!!! "amazing business opportunity" and you've got so little in it) and then talk about how transparent the business is and and and... and they have their referral link in the description and comments.

No dude, you are not "reviewing" MTI you are just trying to make your "team" stronger.
Dishonest scheme being punted by dishonest (or hopefully just naive) people.

 

[Snyper564]

LOL! Most of the YouTube people supporting it have clickbait titles "Scheme fails" , "MTI crumbles!" and then they talk about stuff, say it's rubbish, say "I trust Johan", show their backoffice (with like $1000 ... LOL!!!! "amazing business opportunity" and you've got so little in it) and then talk about how transparent the business is and and and... and they have their referral link in the description and comments.

No dude, you are not "reviewing" MTI you are just trying to make your "team" stronger.
Dishonest scheme being punted by dishonest (or hopefully just naive) people.

agreed i have seen someone do a two month investigation and punt their ref code every time. So what if the investigation turns out bad then what? 2 months of pulling ppl in for what? Sorry i made a mistake but i warned you i am not a financial advisor etc...

 

[warrenpridgeon]

agreed i have seen someone do a two month investigation and punt their ref code every time. So what if the investigation turns out bad then what? 2 months of pulling ppl in for what? Sorry i made a mistake but i warned you i am not a financial advisor etc...

"This video is for entertainment purposes only and I'm just showing you what I'm doing..." BUT... Here's my referral code. Chops... lol

 

[Snyper564]

Just wanted to post this here again for all the new peeps

So by now we all know the basic premise of MTI, which is this:

Reading through some of the other research from other members I stumbled across this (what if this was MTI's early days just before mass crypto adoption?):

Doesnt mean much does it?? No, good thing the interwebs is an archive

So what is the same?

1. No trading risk
2. Total transparency
3. Another automated FX system
4. Just 10USD I guess 100USD for todays inflation
5. Just "average" returns
6. No fees
7. Referrals everyone is coming along for the ride

8. Crypto wasnt big back then but dont worry it accepted "e-currency"

Q: Which e-currencies do you accept?
We accept Liberty Reserve and Perfect Money.

9. Your capital is safe as always

Q: Can I lose money?
There is always an element of risk involved. Doesn't matter where you invest. However, you will NEVER lose all your money. It's very important for you to know that we are real traders and that we invest members' funds on major investments. Worst case senario, you can lose the interest, but NEVER your initial deposit. That we can guarantee!

10. Similar T&Cs

What didnt seem to happen was that this didnt explode seems like almost nothing happened:

 

[r00igev@@r]

Just wanted to post this here again for all the new peeps

So by now we all know the basic premise of MTI, which is this:

Reading through some of the other research from other members I stumbled across this (what if this was MTI's early days just before mass crypto adoption?):

Doesnt mean much does it?? No, good thing the interwebs is an archive

So what is the same?

1. No trading risk
2. Total transparency
3. Another automated FX system
4. Just 10USD I guess 100USD for todays inflation
5. Just "average" returns
6. No fees
7. Referrals everyone is coming along for the ride

8. Crypto wasnt big back then but dont worry it accepted "e-currency"

Q: Which e-currencies do you accept?
We accept Liberty Reserve and Perfect Money.

9. Your capital is safe as always

Q: Can I lose money?
There is always an element of risk involved. Doesn't matter where you invest. However, you will NEVER lose all your money. It's very important for you to know that we are real traders and that we invest members' funds on major investments. Worst case senario, you can lose the interest, but NEVER your initial deposit. That we can guarantee!

10. Similar T&Cs

What didnt seem to happen was that this didnt explode seems like almost nothing happened:

I am shocked that I cannot become a member of the cult because I posted in this forum.

 

[warrenpridgeon]

I am shocked that I cannot become a member of the cult because I posted in this forum.

Except... they don't do KYC... And I know people who have "signed up" under themselves with fake/alternate email addresses so they can be "binary qualified". MTI says "we have ways of stopping people from doing this".... BUT they aren't... because more money flows in when people "self qualify".

 

[Snyper564]

Except... they don't do KYC... And I know people who have "signed up" under themselves with fake/alternate email addresses so they can be "binary qualified". MTI says "we have ways of stopping people from doing this".... BUT they aren't... because more money flows in when people "self qualify".

I believe this might have changed of late although it doesn't matter. They do some sort of fica for whatever it's worth

 

[warrenpridgeon]

I believe this might have changed of late although it doesn't matter. They do some sort of fica for whatever it's worth

When? Cos I signed up so I could see the back office (lies... I'm actually an "investor" ... LOL... JK), there was no FICA (as of like 2 days back).

 

[Snyper564]

When? Cos I signed up so I could see the back office (lies... I'm actually an "investor" ... LOL... JK), there was no FICA (as of like 2 days back).

oh then maybe im wrong thought there was something like that.

 

[warrenpridgeon]

FWIW their backoffice is a bootstrap template that has not had a helluva lot of effort put into it in terms of styling and stuff... I'm not slamming bootstrap templates (I use them too)... But it's NOT the "quality" of a multi million rand company.

 

[warrenpridgeon]

oh then maybe im wrong thought there was something like that.

They were talking about adding some KYC (Know Your Client / FICA) type stuff... But haven't done so yet. You might have read that or heard it in a clip etc.