Mom covered in blood

[kilo39]

Just in case you don't know where Beira is, it's located in Mozambique.

Yeah, a country destroyed by the apartheid regime. Yet to recover, no thanks to bigots like you. Similar story Angola, another cia, ex-apartheid ravaged warhole.

When are you bigots going to realise God created all beings equal.

 

[bwana]

Not that I agree with everything Confederados spouts but it looks like bwana and vespax are trying hard to be good ANC supporting South Africans for some reason. Could it be that they are trying to defend their "dum*ss" decisons to move to South Africa in the first place?

I predict that they will eventually high tail it out of SA and back to the good ol' US of A in the future singing Yankee Doodle Dandee all the way, and leaving all the South Africans who can't get out to rot in their decaying society.

Have a look at the future Americano's:

Example Beira Grand HotelThen)
http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/4264/3521/1600/270583/Grande_Hotel_Beira_001.jpg

Example Beira Grand HotelNow)
http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/4264/3521/1600/491659/Grande_Hotel_Beira_003.jpg

Just in case you don't know where Beira is, it's located in Mozambique.

First off I've never ruled out moving back home - if you'd been here long enough you'd know that.

In the meantime it was hardly a dumb-ass decision moving down here - life is good, in fact it is very good so when the powers that be decide my services are better suited elsewhere I'll have to make the decision to stay or go.

I never ran away from my home so you'll forgive me if I dont see things from your perspective. The amount of time you spend on this forum however speaks volumes.

BTW - You dont have to tell me where Beira is - I've probably seen more of Africa than you ever will.

EDIT - I think it's fair to say this thread has been well and truly derailed. My apologies Plato.

 

[vespax]

I wouldn't consider myself ANC. Or Democrat.

Not worth discussing anymore. Have fun in North America guys, the sun is warm and bright here.

 

[IamCanadian]

Yeah, a country destroyed by the apartheid regime. Yet to recover, no thanks to bigots like you. Similar story Angola, another cia, ex-apartheid ravaged warhole.

When are you bigots going to realise God created all beings equal.

You know you are right kilo, Africa should have been left untouched by the rapacious European land barons. In fact, America and South America should have been left untouched by the Spanish and the British.

So all you people who are not Hottentots, Zulu, Xhosa, Venda, Sotho, etc, please head for the nearest exit.

While I am at, I will have to leave Canada and move back to England because that is where my ancestors came from. Then all the blacks in America and the Caribbean can move back to Africa and all the Chinese can move back to China, and all the Indians can move back to India and so on.

CIA? What about the KGB and the Stazi and the Chinese. Not to mention the French. Go back to sleep.

 

[The Confederados]

Yeah, a country destroyed by the apartheid regime. Yet to recover, no thanks to bigots like you. Similar story Angola, another cia, ex-apartheid ravaged warhole.

And why was it destroyed? Had nothing to do with black terrorists right? The same black terrorists that controls your government perhaps?

When are you guys going to wash some terrorist feet? Giv'em a good scrubbin'.

 

[Kimosabe]

I always stop. its just who i am. I will help anyone at any time. For crying out loud, i got covered in blood the over day, saving a guy that had got stabbed. just finised a course of ARV's. they maybe armed true. but most people can hit a barn at five paces. U on the other hand have a car...2 tons of steel and metal. U can run some on down. doing nothing helps no one. if you dont help ur weak and worthless.

 

[Kimosabe]

After reading this forum it seems that hate for one another runs deep.
Understand u white ppl, also white, we all come from black people. That is where the genes come from. Mankind started here. So remember deep down you are all a black person too. and to the black people. You need to remember. that with out the white man you would not have what u have today. when we arrived we where more advanced than u. and why is that...well in simple terms. The weather. we had to use certain parts of our brains to be able to survive in europe. Brain cells that fire together join together. its a fact. look at europe. nice place. but in order to make it. you have to plan ahead. its all about planning ahead. Asia is lush but yet they also have to plan ahead. thus seek more for themselves. to have more you need more people.
Africa on the other hand, was awash with food. even during the dry times, food could be found anywhere. But in order to find that food u had to travel vast distances, thus is why african ppl have different evoled bodies. the large bottom, stores fat to be able to burn up while tracking food. the hair on there heads to pervent over heating of the brain. while white people have look hair to keep the brain warm.
its a matter of how we evoled, and i may be rambling, a little drunk. But i am right.
We need as a country to stop being a country of push overs, stop believing what people say and look into what they saying. see the truth from the lies. there is far to many liers these days.
All those up in arms about the ANC.
Dont worry about them, as people become more educated. they will see the lies from the truths. people will change and the country will change. the ANC is not forever. look at england, france, america. change happens when people want a change of government. however all the changes came from wars. but if you want a demo u have to have like minded people fighting for a cause. we have got over the racism part, and now we have to wait for the mind to take over. the heart has run its course. its now time for the mind to set the future of SA.

 

[Nanfeishen]

Now we got foreigners slating our country who have never been here?, or who ran when they got the chance?, its bad enough when locals slate this country.
We live in one of the BEST contries in the world, our standard of living is one of the BEST in the world , and our constitution is one of the most open in the world, so we have a few teathing problems , it is to be expected.
And just to clear up some points, I grew up under the apartheid government , schooled in the apartheid system, served 4 years in the military under the apartheid system, , i am white and am proud to be, and to call myself South African, so you doubters and tossers , go suck eggs!
And, (rant ,rant) do a little homework on the wars in Angola and Mocambique of the time in history, and the threat of global communism that was the order of the day in the 70,s and 80,s and you may actually discover the truth about them, they had NOTHING to do with apartheid.
Oh and by the way , America was founded on the fact that the government broke every single treaty ever made with the locals , i find it rather ironic that a country that claims so much about itself as the bastion of freedom and democracy is built on broken promises and treaties, not too mention wholesale slaughter of innocent women and children.
Read : Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee, by Dee Brown, an Indian perspective of American history

 

[kilo39]

And, (rant ,rant) do a little homework on the wars in Angola and Mozambique of the time in history, and the threat of global communism that was the order of the day in the 70,s and 80,s and you may actually discover the truth about them, they had NOTHING to do with apartheid.

Just as a matter of interest: "the threat of global communism" is a myth. Was the Vietnam war the threat of global communism (well yes according to the official histories.) But in fact the history is far more arcane and convoluted than a simple "communist threat." Any "global communist threat" is only because western nations created the conditions on the ground that made people look elsewhere for support: ripe pickings so to say which should never have been there in the first place.

BwaHaHa ja global communist threat: um, excuse me where is communism today? Ooh ya, defeated in the cold war: you should read some more of those history books to discover exactly who considered who a threat.

Yes the wars in Angola and Mozambique had everything to do with apartheid. What, Mozambique (and angola) where going to invade SA, ah, now I understand. Pleaze.

Yes the anc today still has (some) communist roots but who is to blame for that?

 

[Leitmotif]

If I had a gun and saw something like that I'd shoot the ****er so full of holes..

And you'd better leave pretty damn quickly afterwards. You're only allowed to use firearms when you have a reasonable expectation that the criminal will use deadly force.

Edit: I also don't even understand the mentality over there (including the white people's), over here stuff like that wouldn't fly, people would of gotten out of their cars and ran the savage down.

The savages are better armed than we, and have more rights. We're probably the only country in the world, barring Britain, which treats people preventing crime as criminals. If we had the rights of citizens in your country I'd carry an NFA class III in my [boot/trunk], a Serbu Super-Shorty on my bike, and my H&K Usp at all times. Here I'm only allowed to do the last, and then only after a year or two of the government deciding if I really need to own a weapon.

However, there may be something to 'running them down'. In the townships the community comes together to beat/necklace suspected criminals. There's no way for the police to follow up. We just need to somehow get that same conviction that crime is the community's problem into everyone.

I would blow away 80% of your entire cop force since they're all corrupt (and probably murderers anyway). Isn't your minister of the cop force a corrupt scumbag? Aren't they trying to target the guys at Combat Security for actually combating crime? Your police force (if you can even call it that) is absolutely worthless and is apart of the problem.

17% of our police force have criminal convictions to their names. 20% of police officers have lost service weapons. That's not counting the ones that are stolen/lost from evidence and collection.

Jackie Selebi should be tried for treason, as well as severe corruption. However, shooting police officers, while an attractive idea, isn't a solution. What we need is decently paid, well trained people who believe in the organisation for which they work. That means the police need to become an effective crime-fighting organisation again, not this hobbled bureacracy we currently have. The police need victories and support, not to be shot at.

 

[kilo39]

You know you are right kilo, Africa should have been left untouched by the rapacious European land barons. In fact, America and South America should have been left untouched by the Spanish and the British.

So all you people who are not Hottentots, Zulu, Xhosa, Venda, Sotho, etc, please head for the nearest exit.

While I am at, I will have to leave Canada and move back to England because that is where my ancestors came from. Then all the blacks in America and the Caribbean can move back to Africa and all the Chinese can move back to China, and all the Indians can move back to India and so on.

CIA? What about the KGB and the Stazi and the Chinese. Not to mention the French. Go back to sleep.

Only a person who has no idea of the history of the world could write such drivel.

What I would like to know from these genius's is: what is their alternative? (And they don't have one.) Brilliant. IDIOTS.

And BTW: your comments above re: zulus etc, is not the history of the world: deal with it.

 

[Debbie]

Sorry about what happened to your mom *plato*.

I feel that the most dangerous thing that could happen to South Africa is if we lost the hope that things could be different.

 

[Debbie]

And so long as we're again squabbling about who owns what land etc, I heard a great quote the other day-

"The function of the law is to protect the successful thefts of the past from present ambition".

 

[Nanfeishen]

@ Kilo39 I was speaking of the 70's and 80's , and their were many conditions that were applied or existed in THOSE times that are no longer relative, as to the wars i speak of read the folowing links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_War_of_Independence
http://www.recce.co.za/index.php?mo...&ceid=27&bid=29&btitle=Special Forces&meid=63
http://www.sweety.com/wars.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambican_Civil_War

 

[kilo39]

@ Kilo39 I was speaking of the 70's and 80's , and their were many conditions that were applied or existed in THOSE times that are no longer relative, as to the wars i speak of read the folowing links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_War_of_Independence
http://www.recce.co.za/index.php?mo...&ceid=27&bid=29&btitle=Special Forces&meid=63
http://www.sweety.com/wars.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambican_Civil_War

Yes Nanfeishen I am aware of the history and I am aware you are talking 70, 80's. You have been mislead. Read your own posted links:

The 1933 Portuguese Colonial Act recognized the supremacy of Portuguese over native people, and, even if locals could pursue all studies including university, the de facto situation was of clear disadvantage. Beginning in the 1950s, many Portuguese people settled in Angola, encouraged by the authoritarian government of Salazar.

In that time period, several groups pushing for independence from Portugal were formed.

The Popular Movement for the Liberation of Angola (MPLA) were a front representing the tribal powers and intelligentsia in the Kumbundu and Luanda. They had economic ties to several eastern Europe countries, including the Soviet Union, as well as Zambia, and had the support of the Portuguese Communist Party.

The National Front for the Liberation of Angola (FNLA), led by Holden Roberto, were another front with a power base in the north and ties to the United States and Zaire. They were formed in 1962 by a combination of two smaller Congo nationalist groups, the UPA and the PDA. The FNLA received funding from the Organization of African Unity and Zaire.

The National Union for Total Independence of Angola (UNITA) was a Maoist front based in the centre of the country. Founded in 1966 by Jonas Savimbi, an ex-FNLA leader, its base of support was Ovimbudu, Chokwe, and Ovambo tribes. UNITA initially had little foreign aid, enjoying only small assistance from China, but later on gained the support of South Africa, Zaire, the United States, Morocco, Israel, Cote d'Ivoire, and Zambia.
Angolan War of Independence

Notably Portugal had a vastly different attitude and history to their colonies as opposed to the french or british. Notice the date: 1933. The british history in Kenya or the french history in algeria is more aligned with the portugese view: these are not the histories of South Africa.

 

[Nanfeishen]

What should we have done? , sat back and let everybody take over?, there would have been wholesale slaughter of the civilian population, not to mention total destruction of our country.

 

[-toady-]

That is disgusting Plato... I figure I can safely say if my kid had been driving by she wouldnt have hesitated to stop and help.
Some months ago we were driving along in Morningside and saw a young African lady waiting at the busstop get attacked by two guys trying to drag her bag off her. to her credit, my kid didnt hesitate, just let the car behind her overtake and she did a sharp u in the road and aimed straight at the two cretins who took off....
We took the shaken girl to a safe location.....

toady

 

[Skeptik]

That is disgusting Plato... I figure I can safely say if my kid had been driving by she wouldnt have hesitated to stop and help.
Some months ago we were driving along in Morningside and saw a young African lady waiting at the busstop get attacked by two guys trying to drag her bag off her. to her credit, my kid didnt hesitate, just let the car behind her overtake and she did a sharp u in the road and aimed straight at the two cretins who took off....
We took the shaken girl to a safe location.....

toady

The trouble for most passers-by is recognising what actually happened. If you come across two black (we're all Africans) people fighting, who can say how it started. Was one trying to rob the other? Which one is the criminal? Even so, if was a domestic squabble, you DEFINITELY don't want to get involved.

 

[Skeptik]

Have a look at the future Americano's:

Example Beira Grand HotelThen)
http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/4264/3521/1600/270583/Grande_Hotel_Beira_001.jpg

Example Beira Grand HotelNow)
http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/4264/3521/1600/491659/Grande_Hotel_Beira_003.jpg

Just in case you don't know where Beira is, it's located in Mozambique.

It's always sad to see the signs of decay. I'm afraid Africans don't appear to understand the importance of spending money on maintenance. Take Cape Town International airport for instance. The runway had to cave in before they would consider maintaining it. Bisho airport is another example. The country spent millions providing a world class airport and the longest runway in Africa. Now you have to find out in advance if the runway is serviceable or even if there is someone in the tower. All the instruments were stripped by thieves long ago. In Nigeria, there are virtually no electricity cables because they've all been stolen and never replaced.
Very sad.

 

[kilo39]

What should we have done? , sat back and let everybody take over?, there would have been wholesale slaughter of the civilian population, not to mention total destruction of our country.

You are wrong. At the time of 'decolonisation' there should have been democratic elections instead of a continuing proxy war waged by 'outside forces'.

This is germane:

In the wake of World War II, other European nations began abandoning their colonies either voluntarily or involuntarily. Portugal refused to enter this process voluntarily, and was the last nation to retain its major colonies. In 1961, Goa and the rest of Portuguese India were taken by India. In Portuguese Africa a decade-long war broke out with various resistance groups, in great part a consequence of the "proxy war" between the United States and the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

In fact, it was the Cold War that destroyed the Portuguese empire, as the USA and USSR tried to increase their spheres of influence. The cost of the unsuccessful war against the various guerilla movements overseas eventually led to collapse of the Salazar regime in 1974 (the "Carnation Revolution"). One of the first acts of the democratic government which then came into power was to end the wars and negotiate Portuguese withdrawal from its African colonies. In both Mozambique and Angola a civil war promptly broke out, with incoming communist governments formed by the former rebels (and backed by the Soviet Union, Cuba, and other communist countries) fighting against insurgent groups supported by nations like Zaire, South Africa, and the United States.
Portuguese Empire

And while you're reading that you should read the other stories of empire:
British Empire
French colonial empires

South Africa does not have the history of (Angola & Mozambique.) Ultimately these wars were proxy wars of destabilisation supposedly to fight the communists. But the communists would never have had a foothold if these countries had been allowed to transition to democracy. Portugal left Angola and Mozambique in a hurry and in a mess. Where are the communist ex-french territories?

As to the cold war and soviet expansionism: well we know coca-cola won that one. The soviets sponsored these wars (and the anc) because they were given the opportunity.

We cannot roll back world history but Portugal in particular went against the grain of the 19th and 20th century: these proxy wars were the result.

As to the rest of the cold war: notably George Bush Jnr is not Mikhail Gorbachev.

Wikipedia has the concise version
Cold War

Oh and btw south africa did the right thing finally: with full and free elections.