Morality in modern society

Ponderer

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:rolleyes: you mean after 2 World wars that killed millions, left millions orphaned or without fathers; after fascism and nazism. After colonialism and genocides and slavery, that's when morality started to weaken? I think you have an over romantic view of the past.
And your point is?
 

Bobbin

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Not wearing your seatbelt is usually not seen as immoral, but it is illegal.
Actually... I might argue that this is negligence. Not only does your death affect those dependent on you, it's a serious burden on society to clean up. Practicing safety precautions to the best of your ability/circumstances is a reasonable expectation, morally speaking :p

But hey I'm just in an argumentative mood today lol

A 45 year old man can have sex with a 16 year old girl. Perfectly legal but most people would consider it immoral. Its actually only illegal if he pays her for sex or is in a position of power over her, like being her teacher.
I thought it was 18... is it 16 now? :oops:
 

Scary_Turtle

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Morality is a subform of inner control, meaning you are behaving between known suggestive and understandable parameters all by yourself from within(GroupPressure as well if you wish) and if not abused by leaders should lead to a steady sustainable, fair to most, growth of a nation or goupings to the benifit of all, or you need a policeman for each soul.
I accept your view on morality, I would change it a bit and not sure what this has to do with what I said.

Nothing is perfect, so if a small percentage do not conform, the society as a whole can usually absorb that.
-If morality is willfully done away with over time, it basicly will lead to the fall of societies simply because they would not be able to afford that over many years in many ways on many levels.
I believe morality is not about a few very well behaved individuals that is naturally always well behaved, its about most that needs a push from within to stay on track.
No one is saying morals are to be done away with literally said that in my post.
Every child in the world is born Atheist as they develop with or without religion in their lives they will develop morals no "push from within" is required or proven to accomplish anything.

My guess is morality started to weaken around the late 1960's, probably with liberalism, smoking on a larger scale seen as the must to do trend, families broken up. Now today one can see to how much filth literally and figuratively it has led, and the world has reach a tipping point on many levels between Good and Evil, and the world in general is struggling as a result. It's not about normal liberalism, but rather extreme liberalism trying to set new trends in the world that is not sustainable for most in the long run.
What!! Other then what @C4Cat said this was also the time the American Apartheid ended, people were fighting against sending people into idiotic greedy wars (Vietnam), no Womens rights and 100 years before that there was slavery. When the "Hippies" started their revolution was first time in many years people started taking morals into account and realized what was wrong with the world.

So are you now trying to argue that people should die for there countries over stupid wars, gays are bad and racism is cool or are you very ignorant on the subject?

Please explain how people having more rights is not going to be sustainable or is immoral?

Now with 7 Billion plus individual complex minds, it seems like the good days are gone where a young person can forsee his future over his expected lifetime. Welcome to our new fastfood life. Nature is still there and will run its course which may bring severe corrections you like it or not.
I'm laughing so hard because you are probably like 20 saying the good days are gone and I'm glad you can foresee your future because I can't and I'm excited about it. Life is what you make it if you want more nature in you life go and get it rather then complain about it and yes death happens its part of life (not sure what your point is).

I have a feeling the correction from mankind itself will come from your children's children waking up, so thats still a few years on, and who know what that will come to.
Really!!!! My children's children are going to bring back apartheid, pointless wars, slavery, hate gays, no womens rights etc etc then I am very happy that I live in today's worlds.

I know what point you are trying to accomplish though, less people are believing in the bible therefor moral decay but that isn't actually happening.
 

Ponderer

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Every child in the world is born Atheist as they develop with or without religion in their lives they will develop morals no "push from within" is required or proven to accomplish anything.
Your claim that every child is born Atheist is rubbish.
If anything, every child is born Agnostic.

To further claim that "they will develop morals no "push from within" is required" is also rubbish.
If a child is allowed to do exactly what the child wants to do, the morality of the child will inevitably be that of a (immoral) narcissist.
Every parent knows this full well.

When the "Hippies" started their revolution was first time in many years people started taking morals into account and realized what was wrong with the world.
And exactly what is it that the "Hippies" realized was wrong with the world?

So are you now trying to argue that people should die for there countries over stupid wars, gays are bad and racism is cool or are you very ignorant on the subject?
He did not say any of those things.
You are the ignorant one.

Please explain how people having more rights is not going to be sustainable or is immoral?
Morality can be viewed as a code of conduct.
This does not imply that everyone must have exactly the same "human rights" - nobody treats everybody exactly the same.
The more "rights" a child has, the more the child is allowed to do exactly what the child wants to do.
The same goes for an adult.
Immorality leads to chaos.

I'm laughing so hard because you are probably like 20 saying the good days are gone and I'm glad you can foresee your future because I can't and I'm excited about it. Life is what you make it if you want more nature in you life go and get it rather then complain about it and yes death happens its part of life (not sure what your point is).
Whoooooshhh.

Really!!!! My children's children are going to bring back apartheid, pointless wars, slavery, hate gays, no womens rights etc etc then I am very happy that I live in today's worlds.
Whoooooshhh.

I know what point you are trying to accomplish though, less people are believing in the bible therefor moral decay but that isn't actually happening.
That is exactly what is happening.
 

Scary_Turtle

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Your claim that every child is born Atheist is rubbish.
If anything, every child is born Agnostic.

To further claim that "they will develop morals no "push from within" is required" is also rubbish.
If a child is allowed to do exactly what the child wants to do, the morality of the child will inevitably be that of a (immoral) narcissist.
Every parent knows this full well.


And exactly what is it that the "Hippies" realized was wrong with the world?


He did not say any of those things.
You are the ignorant one.


Morality can be viewed as a code of conduct.
This does not imply that everyone must have exactly the same "human rights" - nobody treats everybody exactly the same.
The more "rights" a child has, the more the child is allowed to do exactly what the child wants to do.
The same goes for an adult.
Immorality leads to chaos.


Whoooooshhh.


Whoooooshhh.


That is exactly what is happening.
Yes Mr questionable morals, you will just go against anything I say just because and would you mind your own business.
 

Ponderer

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Yes Mr questionable morals, you will just go against anything I say just because and would you mind your own business.
Ah yes.
You claim the right to put forth your opinions, but dirty your underwear when others do so.
But hey, you're not obtuse, it's everyone else that is obtuse.
 

Splinter

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Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division

The whole point of Christianity was to save sinners from sin.... what would be the point of appeasing sin instead of fighting it? This just highlights the corruption of modern churches.
Well, if your frikken god hadn't created an angel that went bad, and then this bad angel was allowed to introduce sin to another of gods creations (Adam and Eve), this chistianity would never have been needed, not so.

Seems like this god needs a better moral compass to stop allowing this shyte from happening.
 

Ponderer

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Well, if your frikken god hadn't created an angel that went bad, and then this bad angel was allowed to introduce sin to another of gods creations (Adam and Eve), this chistianity would never have been needed, not so.

Seems like this god needs a better moral compass to stop allowing this shyte from happening.
Ah - the hatred is real.
How can someone hate something that does not exist?
Unless of course...
 

Scary_Turtle

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Fine you want me to respond.

Your claim that every child is born Atheist is rubbish.
If anything, every child is born Agnostic.

To further claim that "they will develop morals no "push from within" is required" is also rubbish.
If a child is allowed to do exactly what the child wants to do, the morality of the child will inevitably be that of a (immoral) narcissist.
Every parent knows this full well.
Born with no belief in God choose your definition.
You are putting words in my mouth, I'm saying you don't need God to be moral not let your children do whatever they want. Teach morals and they will be moral and leave faith out of it! Maybe read what I wrote.

And exactly what is it that the "Hippies" realized was wrong with the world?
Hint! Read the sentence before to figure it out :rolleyes:

He did not say any of those things.
You are the ignorant one.
Based on what he said about the 60's being more moral then, then wouldn't the conclusion be everything since then is less moral or immoral.

Again you arguing for the sake of arguing.

Morality can be viewed as a code of conduct.
This does not imply that everyone must have exactly the same "human rights" - nobody treats everybody exactly the same.
The more "rights" a child has, the more the child is allowed to do exactly what the child wants to do.
The same goes for an adult.
Immorality leads to chaos.
Incorrect on so many levels, you can have all the rights and good morals with no problems. Why do you get to even have a say on children's rights are you an expert or just ....

and no one is saying you don't need morals :rolleyes:
Whoooooshhh.
Whoooooshhh.
Back at you!

That is exactly what is happening.
So miss everything I said then make a stupid claim based on no facts but the fact is we have a better society today then we did 60 years ago. You make yourself look like a fool over and over again based on a book where your God endorses slavery and then try preach morals.


Ah yes.
You claim the right to put forth your opinions, but dirty your underwear when others do so.
But hey, you're not obtuse, it's everyone else that is obtuse.
Sho back to the I have nothing good to say so just going to say the same thing over and over to many different people on the forums (this just today). You are like a yappy dog and no one wants to engage you on the forums not for you insight but because you haven't added anything to an argument for like a year and your arguments are so easy to counter its stupid.

I'm just going to ignore you again in hopes you will go away.
 

Splinter

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Ah - the hatred is real.
How can someone hate something that does not exist?
Unless of course...
Because this is not hatred :) (and stick to your own material please!).

Just highlighting the whole ludicrousness of this god of yours. And any thoughts that it supplied moral values.
 

Ponderer

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Born with no belief in God choose your definition.
You are putting words in my mouth, I'm saying you don't need God to be moral not let your children do whatever they want. Teach morals and they will be moral and leave faith out of it! Maybe read what I wrote.
Not putting words in your mouth.
The non-belief that GOD exists is nothing other than the belief that GOD does not exist.
Atheism is as much a faith as any other faith.
To argue otherwise is silly.
To teach a child that GOD does not exist is equally "immoral" to teaching a child that GOD exists.
To teach a child that GOD does not exist is equally abusive to teaching a child that GOD exists.
Everything a person knows is what they believe to be true/false (with varying degrees of certainty).
You quite simply cannot leave faith out of it.

Incorrect on so many levels, you can have all the rights and good morals with no problems. Why do you get to even have a say on children's rights are you an expert or just ....
Exactly what children's rights are you referring to.
For example.
Consider a mother that has the (liberal) right to decide to abort/murder/kill her yet-to-be-born-child.
What about the rights of the yet-to-be-born-child, huh?
So yes - I do get to have a say on the matter of children's rights.

You starting to see the slippery slope that be libertarian morals?
Moral decay?
Yes?
No?

Sho back to the I have nothing good to say so just going to say the same thing over and over to many different people on the forums (this just today). You are like a yappy dog and no one wants to engage you on the forums not for you insight but because you haven't added anything to an argument for like a year and your arguments are so easy to counter its stupid.
Yeah - your arguments are not stupid - it's all those that disagree with you opinions/views/beliefs that be stupid.
 

Ponderer

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Because this is not hatred :) (and stick to your own material please!).

Just highlighting the whole ludicrousness of this god of yours. And any thoughts that it supplied moral values.
"Because this is not hatred"
Clearly.

"and stick to your own material please!"
Ah - the prerogative of Atheists to exclude every/all other beliefs.
Because Atheists are special speshuul.
 

Prawnapple

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As a moral relativist, my opinion
OP, have you watched this debate?

There are 3 or 4 parts.

Most of the debate (at least day 1 and 2) is about religious dogma, but a major part of the debate is about moral relativism vs nihilism and how one should or how one can go about finding a middle ground between the 2 extremes. JP argues that we still need parts of religion (specifically Christianity) as a basis for morality and Sam Harris says we don't. Very interesting debate. Personally, I haven't finished it yet.
 

Splinter

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"Because this is not hatred"
Clearly.

"and stick to your own material please!"
Ah - the prerogative of Atheists to exclude every/all other beliefs.
Because Atheists are special speshuul.


And I'm referring to using this concept of hatred, which I used on you a number of times (as it was applicable) :)
So, use your own material.....
 

Ponderer

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As a moral relativist, my opinion


OP, have you watched this debate?

There are 3 or 4 parts.

Most of the debate (at least day 1 and 2) is about religious dogma, but a major part of the debate is about moral relativism vs nihilism and how one should or how one can go about finding a middle ground between the 2 extremes. JP argues that we still need parts of religion as a basis for morality and Sam Harris says we don't. Very interesting debate. Personally, I haven't finished it yet.
So tired of the crap that Sam Harris spews.
 
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