Mpumalanga homeowner shoots dead two intruders armed with knives

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konfab said:
Whilst I think that ridding humanity of scum is a good thing, you are legally in a better position if you don't kill them.
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Maybe, but would you medically be in a better position (or at least in the same position you had been seconds before you were alerted to their presence)?
 
konfab

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Neptuner said:
How so?
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wingnut771 said:
How so? So wounding them is better?
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mojoman said:
Your choice...
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Lets just get a few things out the way first: You must use whatever force is necessary to defend your life. If the criminal dies, as a result of that, so be it. You have to aim to stop them which should involve center mass. But for example, if you missed a vital organ and they are writhing in pain on the ground, giving them first aid and making sure they live puts you in a better position.

That is separate from the fact that you are in an easier position to defend yourself legally if the person doesn't die.

If you look at it from a worst-case scenario, they can't charge you for murder, so already you are in a better position. For example, there is no minimum sentence for attempted murder.
https://www.lawforall.co.za/arrest-crimes/jail-time-south-africa/

And when the person is alive, and you do end up going to court, they will have to testify why they broke into your house and ran at you with a knife.
 
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konfab said:
Lets just get a few things out the way first: You must use whatever force is necessary to defend your life. If the criminal dies, as a result of that, so be it. You have to aim to stop them which should involve center mass. But for example, if you missed a vital organ and they are writhing in pain on the ground, giving them first aid and making sure they live puts you in a better position.

That is separate from the fact that you are in an easier position to defend yourself legally if the person doesn't die.

If you look at it from a worst-case scenario, they can't charge you for murder, so already you are in a better position. For example, there is no minimum sentence for attempted murder.
https://www.lawforall.co.za/arrest-crimes/jail-time-south-africa/

And when the person is alive, and you do end up going to court, they will have to testify why they broke into your house and ran at you with a knife.
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I stand to be corrected on this, but you have the right not to incriminate yourself, so why would they (the attacker) testify to anything?
 
konfab

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SykomantiS said:
I stand to be corrected on this, but you have the right not to incriminate yourself, so why would they (the attacker) testify to anything?
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Well if the attacker wants you to go to prison for attempted murder, they will have to give their version of the story to bolster the state's case. Which means they incriminate themselves for the crime of breaking into your house and running at you with a knife.

See why you are in a much better position legally?

Look what happened with Rittenhouse. Once of his attackers said he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse during cross examination. That was it for the case.
 
Flanders

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konfab said:
giving them first aid
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1000_F_211389720_Z8RC0UYXMaXhbte1kn6mV7Acemjn4JTT.jpg


Good Friday news. Rest in piss.
 
Howdy

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RedViking said:
maroelamedia.co.za

Man skiet aanvallers dood op kleinhoewe | Maroela Media

’n Alarm het kort ná middernag afgegaan en die eienaar van die huis het met sy gelisensieërde vuurwapen ondersoek gaan instel.
maroelamedia.co.za maroelamedia.co.za

Although probably just a stock photo.
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:thumbsup:
Argieffoto bloot ter illustrasie. (Argieffoto: Heritage Protection Group)
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HunterNW said:
View attachment 1384322
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Actually, a pity you can't get stickers like that for all your windows facing the street. A bit of dark red paint on the window sills. Not only will your house be safe, so will your neighbours' houses.. I'm sure they'll move on to a house far, far away ...
 
Howdy

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ForceFate said:
It appears to me like you're in the US and not in ZA.

Are you suggesting black police officers treat white victims of crime harshly?
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Mielie stealing and kids hiding, jumping out in front of a bakkie.
Guy jumping off the back of a bakkie, killing himself.
Brother looking for trouble on a farm ...

You tell us?
 
Neptuner

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konfab said:
Lets just get a few things out the way first: You must use whatever force is necessary to defend your life. If the criminal dies, as a result of that, so be it. You have to aim to stop them which should involve center mass. But for example, if you missed a vital organ and they are writhing in pain on the ground, giving them first aid and making sure they live puts you in a better position.

That is separate from the fact that you are in an easier position to defend yourself legally if the person doesn't die.

If you look at it from a worst-case scenario, they can't charge you for murder, so already you are in a better position. For example, there is no minimum sentence for attempted murder.
https://www.lawforall.co.za/arrest-crimes/jail-time-south-africa/

And when the person is alive, and you do end up going to court, they will have to testify why they broke into your house and ran at you with a knife.
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I get where you coming from but people lie in court. The narrative can change like that! The burglars who survive can claim they dropped their weapons after you fired the warning shot and yet you still fired at them… now what? or in the case where one dies the other survivor(s) testify along the same lines?

You bordering murder now, in this oaks case he went to go check in the kitchen, they going to grill him on why he went to look for trouble in his own kitchen… now add a witness to that scenario to spice things up… thats premeditated.

You say trying to save the burglar after putting one or two in him will add in your favour? the obvious thing to do is calling for help certainly. Not sure about about first aid, sounds humble however you not obligated to as the burglars would leave you for dead.
 
konfab

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Neptuner said:
I get where you coming from but people lie in court. The narrative can change like that! The burglars who survive can claim they dropped their weapons after you fired the warning shot and yet you still fired at them… now what? or in the case where one dies the other survivor(s) testify along the same lines?
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So they would have to testify that they went into your house with the intention of committing an armed burglary. Which confirms your side of the story that they were in your house with the intention of causing you harm. And you shouldn't be firing a warning shot anyway. You fire that boom-boom stick, it should hit the criminal.

Neptuner said:
You bordering murder now, in this oaks case he went to go check in the kitchen, they going to grill him on why he went to look for trouble in his own kitchen… now add a witness to that scenario to spice things up… thats premeditated.
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Going to look for people in your own kitchen isn't breaking the law. It isn't advised from a self defence point of view, but it isn't the end all of scenareos.

Neptuner said:
You say trying to save the burglar after putting one or two in him will add in your favour? the obvious thing to do is calling for help certainly. Not sure about about first aid, sounds humble however you not obligated to as the burglars would leave you for dead.
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It doesn't matter what you are obligated to do, it matters how the judge will look at it. And how they determine a reasonable person would act in your place. Would you get in trouble for making sure your family is safe before aiding them? No. Would you get in trouble for calling for help before aiding them? No. Would you get into trouble if you just stood over them and watched them die? yes.
 
Howdy

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konfab said:
Lets just get a few things out the way first: You must use whatever force is necessary to defend your life. If the criminal dies, as a result of that, so be it. You have to aim to stop them which should involve center mass. But for example, if you missed a vital organ and they are writhing in pain on the ground, giving them first aid and making sure they live puts you in a better position.

That is separate from the fact that you are in an easier position to defend yourself legally if the person doesn't die.

If you look at it from a worst-case scenario, they can't charge you for murder, so already you are in a better position. For example, there is no minimum sentence for attempted murder.
https://www.lawforall.co.za/arrest-crimes/jail-time-south-africa/

And when the person is alive, and you do end up going to court, they will have to testify why they broke into your house and ran at you with a knife.
Click to expand...
You actually want then to die, with yourself in a defensible position.

If you wound, yes, you have to make an attempt to save their life.

If you succeed, it will lead to incredible creativity as to what they were doing on your property etc, yourself having to defend yourself against it. Dead men tell no lies.

Try and keep a clear head, shoot and shoot well if justifiable, if at all possible.
 
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