mRNA Spike protein is very dangerous, it's cytotoxic - says INVENTOR of mRNA Technology

[Geoff.D]

Sorry Geoff don't quite get the question develop vaccines as opposed to treatments or developed vaccines so quickly when they not going to profit from them ( charity and all that )

Oh, there is no question about it. Big pharma is going to make profits out of this and get plenty of goodwill as a bonus. Some as indicated in other posts believe that the technology was around for a long time just never finished. Other's believe that big pharma is complicit in this bug anyway because of their involvement GOF research.

Vaccines are about the only real "success" that modern medicine can lay claim to and then even then there will be arguments as to what role they play in the development of vaccines.

The other problem is I think I am so anti big-pharma at the moment and it is preventing me from formulating my views objectively.

 

[SauRoNZA]

That's where we differ. Only time can account for unknowns and accuracy. You can't shorten normal cycles and then claim that something is still just as accurate and you know everything you should know.

As for the treatment statement and why I made it, treatments are actively being suppressed or not being investigated. Everybody is focusing on vaccines to the exclusion of other research. The only company who isn't has another treatment with an exorbitant price tag and has made a u-turn on one of its other cheap products. This whole thing is a circus.

You are right, in the context of potential complications to the person down the line time could certainly play a deeper part.

I’m not really sure even five years is enough for that though and likely as with many things discovered over the decades it’s not really something we can account for perfectly anyway.

As for the initial administration you don’t need time for that, just test data.

 

[Daveogg]

I'll bite and raise you one. But first, are there any pharmaceutical company that can manufacture it that doesn't have diabetic medication? Insulin is a diabetic medication and makes loads of money over a lifetime.

Sure someone will probably be interested but what will happen imo is someone will end up buying it out to suppress is.

Ok so if your 5yr old child was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, considering that for the rest of her life she will be injecting herself with insulin 4 times a day. Will have multiple acute admissions to hospital in ketoacidosis. Is likely to develop complications including blindness, renal failure, peripheral vascular disease, cardiovascular disease.
What would you pay for such a medication? One yrs salary, two years, five years?

 

[SoldierMan]

They seem rather conflicted on that one.

Ivermectin: Wonder drug? Not really, say experts | Delhi News - Times of India

An increasing number of Delhiites infected by Covid-19 are now being put on Ivermectin – an orally administered drug that is generally used to treat p

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

That article was entirely an opinion piece bashing Ivermectin on what agencies like the WHO says, not actual trials or anything real. They back up the headline with nothing, it's hot air. The headline is all there is, the rest is an empty hit piece. And warnings about overuse, yeah no crap that goes for any drug

 

[SauRoNZA]

Well, usually it's years between when a product is first developed and when it finally gets approval from organisations like the FDA, because it takes years to do studies on the long-term effects of treatments. In the case of the covid vaccines, this step was skipped.


It's not a regulation if you get to ignore it when it's convenient.

By your logic, something is no longer experimental because some government agency gets to arbitrarily determine if something is experimental or not.

I never said it wasn’t experimental.

It’s very well known it’s still experimental and hence why it doesn’t have full general use approval and only emergency approval.

It wasn’t ignored, otherwise it would have been approved.

And it’s pretty well known it’s experimental.

I do recall they even tell you this before jabbing you but not 100% sure. They do quite a checklist.

 

[JangoFett]

That’s the entire part that baffles me about the anti-vaxxer logic and how everyone seems to think this was rushed to marker and made overnight.

I don’t think time is of any relevance.

It’s about data and number of test cases which is of course much easier to accumulate when you have many more volunteers on a much bigger scale as we had in this instance.

How long the testing takes is pretty irrelevant.

Only thing different here was necessary priority and scale.

As for your well known fact that statement makes no sense. Of course we wouldn’t need a vaccine if we had an effective treatment. We don’t, so it is essentially the treatment. This is just common sense.

How long testing takes is directly relevant to whether or not the tests will pick up long term effects from the treatment. This step was skipped. How on Earth do you not realise that this makes the vaccines a risky proposition, that this is the core concern behind the "anti-vaxxers" (who aren't actually anti-vaxxers at all)?

 

[SauRoNZA]

But that then suggests big pharma suppressed the technology and failed to finish off until forced to. They can't have it both ways ------

Why would they waste millions/billions on making a vaccination they might never need?

Doesn’t make sense.

This stuff was around way back when with bird flu, or swine flu or possibly both of them came about and probably well before that I just don’t remember.

 

[JangoFett]

I never said it wasn’t experimental.

It’s very well known it’s still experimental and hence why it doesn’t have full general use approval and only emergency approval.

It wasn’t ignored, otherwise it would have been approved.

And it’s pretty well known it’s experimental.

I do recall they even tell you this before jabbing you but not 100% sure. They do quite a checklist.

Why are you surprised that people are skeptical about a treatment that everybody acknowledges is experimental?

 

[SauRoNZA]

How long testing takes is directly relevant to whether or not the tests will pick up long term effects from the treatment. This step was skipped. How on Earth do you not realise that this makes the vaccines a risky proposition, that this is the core concern behind the "anti-vaxxers" (who aren't actually anti-vaxxers at all)?

It’s simple really.

Die now? Or possibly die (more like have a minor complication) later?

Seems a pretty simple risk analysis to make.

As someone with basically no immune system I’d like to have an almost normal life again thank you very much.

 

[SoldierMan]

They seem rather conflicted on that one.

Ivermectin: Wonder drug? Not really, say experts | Delhi News - Times of India

An increasing number of Delhiites infected by Covid-19 are now being put on Ivermectin – an orally administered drug that is generally used to treat p

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Also it’s hard to accept that the graph in your post is magically all the result of Ivermectin since not every person has been treated with it.

DGHS drops Ivermectin, Doxycycline from Covid-19 treatment; ICMR rules unchanged

The revised guidelines have also dropped drugs such as hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, doxycycline, zinc and multivitamins, that were earlier prescribed by doctors to treat asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic Covid-19 patients.

www.indiatoday.in

No proof ivermectin and hydroxy 'regime' led to COVID decline in India - Australian Associated Press

An Instagram user claims to know why cases dropped in May after the country's second wave of the virus.

www.aap.com.au

So yeah again seems some left field one hit wonder links about its efficacy in India and yet the government has removed it from its treatment regime.

So no, we don’t have a treatment.

Let's see the actual data that you probably didn't even bother reading because you are so brainwashed.

This is what happened to cases in the areas that chose Ivermectin:


Delhi : ¯ 97% [28,395 to 956]

Uttar Pradesh: ¯ 95% [37,944 to 2,014]

Goa: ¯ 85% [4195 to 645]

Karnataka: ¯ 60% [50,112 to 20,378]

Uttarakhand: ¯ 87% [9,642 to 1,226]


Observe what happened to those areas that DID NOT choose Ivermectin:

Tamil Nadu 173% [10,986 to 30,016]

Odisha 50% [4,761 to 7,148]

Assam 240% [1,651 to 5,613]

Arunachal Pradesh 656% [ 61 to 461]

Tripura 828% [92 to 854]

This graph shows that Ivermectin, used in Delhi beginning April 20, obliterated their COVID crisis. No one should be able to talk you out of this - not a salesman, a drug company, a television celebrity doc, and certainly not the top doctor for the WHO or the NIH who is paid to do that.

Will you believe this 97% eradication graph, or will you believe the propaganda pitched by the Big Media, Big Pharma, the WHO, and the FDA, who share massive financial conflicts of interest – those who say there is insufficient evidence?

What evidence could be any clearer than a 97% reduction in five weeks? That number is better than the current vaccines and beyond the reach of most medicines.

You would be wrong there, @SauRoNZA has fallen for the propaganda hook, line and sinker like a good serf would.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Why are you surprised that people are skeptical about a treatment that everybody acknowledges is experimental?

Because every single drug has side effects and contraindications and those very same people generally hard ignore those without thinking twice.

But for some reason they balk against this far more important one.

****

Also the very same people happily and very experimentally would administer ivermectin to themselves because someone on a WhatsApp group said so.

 

[JangoFett]

It’s simple really.

Die now? Or possibly die (more like have a minor complication) later?

Seems a pretty simple risk analysis to make.

Have people died from the vaccine? Yes.

Is covid likely to kill you if you get it? No.

So your simplification basically rests upon misconstruing the situation.

As someone with basically no immune system I’d like to have an almost normal life again thank you very much.

I never said you shouldn't be allowed to take an experimental treatment, though. If that's what you want to do, and nobody is coercing you one way or another, great, your body your choice. Just don't force your decisions on me.

 

[SauRoNZA]

That article was entirely an opinion piece bashing Ivermectin on what agencies like the WHO says, not actual trials or anything real. They back up the headline with nothing, it';s hot air. The headline is all there is, the rest is an empty hit piece. And warnings about overuse, yeah no crap that goes for any drug

Yeah I will admit that first one isn’t great.

The other one is a lot more solid.

But was more showing that there seems to be considerable division but more importantly the government themselves have stopped it as a treatment.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Let's see the actual data that you probably didn't even bother reading because you are so brainwashed.

This is what happened to cases in the areas that chose Ivermectin:


Delhi : ¯ 97% [28,395 to 956]

Uttar Pradesh: ¯ 95% [37,944 to 2,014]

Goa: ¯ 85% [4195 to 645]

Karnataka: ¯ 60% [50,112 to 20,378]

Uttarakhand: ¯ 87% [9,642 to 1,226]


Observe what happened to those areas that DID NOT choose Ivermectin:

Tamil Nadu 173% [10,986 to 30,016]

Odisha 50% [4,761 to 7,148]

Assam 240% [1,651 to 5,613]

Arunachal Pradesh 656% [ 61 to 461]

Tripura 828% [92 to 854]




You would be wrong there, @SauRoNZA has fallen for the propaganda hook, line and sinker like a good serf would.

Random question.

Isn’t Ivermectin for use by humans also experimental?

 

[SauRoNZA]

Have people died from the vaccine? Yes.

Is covid likely to kill you if you get it? No.

So your simplification basically rests upon misconstruing the situation.


I never said you shouldn't be allowed to take an experimental treatment, though. If that's what you want to do, and nobody is coercing you one way or another, great, your body your choice. Just don't force your decisions on me.

Have people died AFTER the vaccine? Yes. Have people died FROM the vaccine? Debatable.

Have people died from Covid? Yes. Massively.

Have more people in their millions died from Covid than those possibly maybe after having gotten the vaccine? Yes by a massive multiple.

Isn’t Ivermectin for use by humans also experimental?

I am quite likely to die from Covid as a high risk individual. Other people getting the vaccine therefore reduces my own risk even if they themselves weren’t at risk of dying which is what this entire thing has always been about.

It’s never been about the majority but rather the high risk minority.

Also, haven’t plenty of people died from Ivermectin? Granted likely due to self-administration rather than in hospital I’m sure.


Whether it should be forced on people or not is a separate debate. All I’ll say there is that things like vaccination passports have existed for decades they aren’t new and nobody has ever been forced to go to a country.

Vaccination in schools is irrelevant to Covid at present.

****

And to be clear I used the term anti-vax in the context of Covid not holistically.

I understand many people aren’t anti-vax and just questioning the Covid vaccine specifically and I can understand that due to the abundance of (mis)information going around from all angles.

 

[SoldierMan]

Random question.

Isn’t Ivermectin for use by humans also experimental?

For Covid, yes. Not for River Blindness, Elephantiasis and many other parasite diseases (when I have time ask me to tell you about an amazing story about Ivermectin saving a man's life who was on his way to death and doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with him, and just by chance he took some IVM to show someone that it was safe to take for Covid. That chance helping literally saw hundreds of worms come out of him, over weeks and months and saved his life as they now knew what was wrong with him, he was a factory for some kind of worm. Guess I found the time to tell the story )

But while it is experimental it is safe, we know this.

And the numbers speak for themselves, if correctly dosed and given early to mid, and not waiting until the patient is near death, it is effective when used with combos of zinc and Vitamin D, etc., etc.

Come on man, Sauron, even you, a stalwart of conformism I know, must admit that the numbers that real world trials on real people are showing are downright miraculous, and quite frankly a game changer.

 

[SoldierMan]

tell India we don't have an effective treatment:

Ivermectin obliterates 97 percent of Delhi cases

A 97% decline in Delhi cases with Ivermectin is decisive - period. It represents the last word in an epic struggle to save lives and preserve human rights. This graph

www.thedesertreview.com

Wow, this needs a quote, those numbers are astounding. Dr Kory is validated.

 

[JangoFett]

Have people died AFTER the vaccine? Yes. Have people died FROM the vaccine? Debatable.

No, it's pretty clear that some people have died from heart problems that arose from the vaccine, that's why the CDC issued a warning.

Mave people died from Covid? Yes. Massively.

You still have a 99% chance of surviving your encounter with covid, on average.

Have more people in their millions died from Covid than those possibly maybe after having gotten the vaccine? Yes by a massive multiple.

Actually, some reports indicate that people have died more from the vaccine than from covid in the Summer months in the US. I'm not going to stand by that report, because it's not definitive, but it does call your conclusion into question.

Isn’t Ivermectin for use by humans also experimental?

No, it's been on the market for 40 years. We know more or less how it interacts with the human body. You can't say the same thing about the vaccine.

I am quite likely to die from Covid as a high risk individual. Other people getting the vaccine therefore reduces my own risk even if they themselves weren’t at risk of dying which is what this entire thing has always been about.

I'm sorry to hear that you have specific concerns regarding infection, but that doesn't give you the right to dictate whether or not I take an experimental treatment against my will for your benefit.

Also, haven’t plenty of people died from Ivermectin? Granted likely due to self-administration rather than in hospital I’m sure.

Last I heard, there has been 1 death associated with Ivermectin recorded over 40 years of use. Ask @SoldierMan for the source.

Whether it should be forced on people or not is a separate debate. All I’ll say there is that things like vaccination passports have existed for decades they aren’t new and nobody has ever been forced to go to a country.

There are also Nuremberg laws against forcing people to take experimental treatments against their will.

 

[SauRoNZA]

No, it's pretty clear that some people have died from heart problems that arose from the vaccine, that's why the CDC issued a warning.


You still have a 99% chance of surviving your encounter with covid, on average.


Actually, some reports indicate that people have died more from the vaccine than from covid in the Summer months in the US. I'm not going to stand by that report, because it's not definitive, but it does call your conclusion into question.


No, it's been on the market for 40 years. We know more or less how it interacts with the human body. You can't say the same thing about the vaccine.


I'm sorry to hear that you have specific concerns regarding infection, but that doesn't give you the right to dictate whether or not I take an experimental treatment against my will for your benefit.


Last I heard, there has been 1 death associated with Ivermectin recorded over 40 years of use. Ask @SoldierMan for the source.


There are also Nuremberg laws against forcing people to take experimental treatments against their will.

Here’s a question for you.

The moment it’s not considered experimental and approved by a government (which most don’t trust) will you be taking it without question?

 

[SauRoNZA]

For Covid, yes. Not for River Blindness, Elephantiasis and many other parasite diseases (when I have time ask me to tell you about an amazing story about Ivermectin saving a man's life who was on his way to death and doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with him, and just by chance he took some IVM to show someone that it was safe to take for Covid. That chance helping literally saw hundreds of worms come out of him, over weeks and months and saved his life as they now knew what was wrong with him, he was a factory for some kind of worm. Guess I found the time to tell the story )

But while it is experimental it is safe, we know this.

And the numbers speak for themselves, if correctly dosed and given early to mid, and not waiting until the patient is near death, it is effective when used with combos of zinc and Vitamin D, etc., etc.

Come on man, Sauron, even you, a stalwart of conformism I know, must admit that the numbers that real world trials on real people are showing are downright miraculous, and quite frankly a game changer.

Why has the Indian government pulled it from the treatment regime then?