mRNA Spike protein is very dangerous, it's cytotoxic - says INVENTOR of mRNA Technology

[Hush9300]

I just want to point out that your sentence has some faulty logic, that's like saying because a new model of a gun has less fatalities than an older model over the same period, the new gun is less deadly (when both are equally deadly). There are a lot of other factors involved, which cannot be controlled in order to therefore have a controlled environment to compare against.

Note that I can't say whether one or the other is deadlier, but case fatality numbers is just one aspect amongst a lot of other factors for determination.

Your analogy is off. We're not dealing with guns but rather a natural phenomenon. Now if those same guns, lets say 5 Alpha and 5 Delta, were firing at the same time, population, body part and area with 1 resulting in fewer fatalities per strike then it would be reasonable to assume that gun to be less deadly.

Be that as it may... The data in question was collated over the same period, the same regions and the same population. You'd be hard pressed to find better data than that.

 

[quovadis]

Delta is not dominant in the UK. As far as I can tell it is about a 50/50 split between Alpha and Delta yet the since 1 Feb 2021 Alpha has resulted in 4250 deaths of 225,000 cases whereas the Delta variant has resulted in 260 deaths out of 170,000 cases over the same period and same population.

So creative yet flawed. The delta variant is dominant and yes there are others but that is the same for ZA and Indonesia. Your reasoning does not account for a 30-35x difference between the UK and ZA/Indonesia vaccinated or not.

 

[quovadis]

We require at least 5 years to pass before a ruling can be made regarding adverse reactions to the mRNA vaccines.

There's a mRNA rabies vaccine that was introduced in its first trial in 2013. It was invented by Dr Malone as per Swa/Soldierman.

 

[Hush9300]

Yeah sure... SA and UK are exactly the same...



View attachment 1110856


View attachment 1110858

Are you even following the debate? Let me explain...

From the South African graphs, at this very moment in a largely unvaccinated population, it would be reasonable to conclude that the CFR from the 3rd wave (Delta) to be less than the CFR from the 2nd wave (Beta). We know Delta is dominant in South Africa.

The UK graphs, in a largely vaccinated population, tell us that total deaths are way down so we have to look at the raw data to ascertain which variant is more deadly.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001358/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_18.pdf

The above link contains that data.

 

[Geoff.D]

There's a mRNA rabies vaccine that was introduced in its first trial in 2013. It was invented by Dr Malone as per Swa/Soldierman.

So, what is the detail about that vaccine? Is it given as a preventative or as a treatment?
Your post is disengeniuos because you are trying to use it to push a safety claim for ALL mRNA vaccines as well as fuel the invention argument.

 

[quovadis]

So, what is the detail about that vaccine? Is it given as a preventative or as a treatment?
Your post is disengeniuos because you are trying to use it to push a safety claim for ALL mRNA vaccines as well as fuel the invention argument.

I'm sorry I didn't see you specify which vaccines you were referring to when you wrote "We require at least 5 years to pass before a ruling can be made regarding adverse reactions to the mRNA vaccines." Hence, I provided an example of a mRNA vaccine that's had 6-8 years pass. Enjoy.

 

[Hush9300]

So creative yet flawed. The delta variant is dominant and yes there are others but that is the same for ZA and Indonesia. Your reasoning does not account for a 30-35x difference between the UK and ZA/Indonesia vaccinated or not.

It doesn't matter because I am not comparing the UK data to South African data or the Indonesian data.

I'm saying, and read attentively this time, that PER THE UK DATA THE CFR OF THE DELTA VARIANT IS SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN THAT OF THE ALPHA VARIANT OVER THE SAME PERIOD, POPULATION, REGION AND VACCINATION STATUS.

I attach that data too. As you can see the Delta variant is not dominant either.

I honestly don't know what to say... It is almost as of you and others want the Delta variant to be more virulent and deadly. That it is actually less virulent and deadly is good news. Magnificent news.

 

[quovadis]

It doesn't matter because I am not comparing the UK data to South African data or the Indonesian data.

I think you've moved the goal post so far you've lost the actual substance of the argument. It was asserted that a country like the UK with a highly vaccinated population vs a country without like ZA or Indonesia has a 30-40 fold less CFR based on a moving average at peak despite the same dominant variant.

I'm saying, and read attentively this time, that PER THE UK DATA THE CFR OF THE DELTA VARIANT IS SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN THAT OF THE ALPHA VARIANT OVER THE SAME PERIOD, POPULATION, REGION AND VACCINATION STATUS.

I wonder if it has something to do with what's written in your own linked-to document! "• the 28-day case fatality rate for Delta remains low (0.1%), though mortality is a lagged indicator and the vast majority of cases are still within the 28 days of follow-up required."

Magnificent news.

Only if you ignore the above.

 

[buka001]

It doesn't matter because I am not comparing the UK data to South African data or the Indonesian data.

I'm saying, and read attentively this time, that PER THE UK DATA THE CFR OF THE DELTA VARIANT IS SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN THAT OF THE ALPHA VARIANT OVER THE SAME PERIOD, POPULATION, REGION AND VACCINATION STATUS.

I attach that data too. As you can see the Delta variant is not dominant either.

I honestly don't know what to say... It is almost as of you and others want the Delta variant to be more virulent and deadly. That it is actually less virulent and deadly is good news. Magnificent news.

Is that because the vaccine has blunted the severity of the virus in terms of reducing the number of sever cases, hence the CFR will fall?

Is this a conflation of the data?

 

[AlphaJohn]

Is that because the vaccine has blunted the severity of the virus in terms of reducing the number of sever cases, hence the CFR will fall?

Is this a conflation of the data?

Looks more like a collection of data over a time period for a small area for 2 reasons.

A) July 5th UK only had 9 recorded deaths and 26 829 new reported cases for the country as a whole
B) The country as a whole had 5 473 477 cases with 128 727 fatalities.

Alpha & Beta was prominent pre vaccination and Delta, Kappa & Lamda only started to really spread after vaccines started to roll out in 1st world. Lambda only became a known variant in June.

So something is off/missing?

Edit Nevermind found what I was looking for:


Delta only really started spreading May, after the main vaccine drive starting in Feb. So we cant rule out vaccine as reason for drop in fatality in charts provided.

 

[Hush9300]

I think you've moved the goal post so far you've lost the actual substance of the argument. It was asserted that a country like the UK with a highly vaccinated population vs a country without like ZA or Indonesia has a 30-40 fold less CFR based on a moving average at peak despite the same dominant variant.

mRNA Spike protein is very dangerous, it's cytotoxic - says INVENTOR of mRNA Technology

So more contagious = faster spread = able to get to those who are vulnerable to the disease more quickly yes? While the disease it causes (edit for typo) may not itself be more deadly, it can spread faster and therefore kill more people before we can properly protect ourselves against it. And...

mybroadband.co.za

This is my original post. No goalposts have been changed since the argument is about the UK data.

I wonder if it has something to do with what's written in your own linked-to document! "• the 28-day case fatality rate for Delta remains low (0.1%), though mortality is a lagged indicator and the vast majority of cases are still within the 28 days of follow-up required."


Only if you ignore the above.

They make no such qualification as far as I can see (I've searched the PDF). In any event the same is true for all the variants. You cannot massage the data in that way.

 

[Hush9300]

Is that because the vaccine has blunted the severity of the virus in terms of reducing the number of sever cases, hence the CFR will fall?

Is this a conflation of the data?

No. because the data has been collected over the same period which by default means the vaccination variable is consistent across variants.

 

[buka001]

No. because the data has been collected over the same period which by default means the vaccination variable is consistent across variants.

Can you link to this report?

 

[DA-LION-619]

Can you link to this report?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001358/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_18.pdf

 

[DA-LION-619]

I honestly don't know what to say... It is almost as of you and others want the Delta variant to be more virulent and deadly. That it is actually less virulent and deadly is good news. Magnificent news.

I think you've missed the notes below table 3.

The variant itself, because the case fatality rates per variant are measured over the same period.

It says you can't do this.

 

[Geoff.D]

Looks more like a collection of data over a time period for a small area for 2 reasons.

A) July 5th UK only had 9 recorded deaths and 26 829 new reported cases for the country as a whole
B) The country as a whole had 5 473 477 cases with 128 727 fatalities.

Alpha & Beta was prominent pre vaccination and Delta, Kappa & Lamda only started to really spread after vaccines started to roll out in 1st world. Lambda only became a known variant in June.

So something is off/missing?

Edit Nevermind found what I was looking for:
View attachment 1110982

Delta only really started spreading May, after the main vaccine drive starting in Feb. So we cant rule out vaccine as reason for drop in fatality in charts provided.

Why do you want to rule it out? Is that not what we want to see?

 

[AlphaJohn]

Why do you want to rule it out? Is that not what we want to see?

I said we cant rule it out, not I want to rule it out

 

[zolly]

But you don't can't know that.

Except we do.

Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tends to be the difficult ones.

There are unknown unknowns - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Known known - mRNA vaccines have been instrumental in reducing the lethality and severity of COVID-19. This thread alone is packed with statistics showing how countries with vaccination programs that are far along have successfully reduced the fatality rate of COVID-19.

Known unknown - A small subset of people experience varying side effects, and COVID-19 breakthroughs despite being vaccinated – we just have no idea who these people will be.

Unknown unknown - Guess we'll wait and see.

 

[zolly]

The measures taken and the plan to vaccinate the entire planet, even going as far as vaccine passports, is completely out of whack with the risk.

Don't disagree with some of the other points you've made, but you know we already have vaccine passports right? You literally cannot go to certain places without getting certain shots.

 

[JangoFett]

Except we do.

Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tends to be the difficult ones.

There are unknown unknowns - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Known known - mRNA vaccines have been instrumental in reducing the lethality and severity of COVID-19. This thread alone is packed with statistics showing how countries with vaccination programs that are far along have successfully reduced the fatality rate of COVID-19.

Known unknown - A small subset of people experience varying side effects, and COVID-19 breakthroughs despite being vaccinated – we just have no idea who these people will be.

Unknown unknown - Guess we'll wait and see.

You said that the known known outweighed the known unknown. But you don't know that while the known unknown remains unkown. You don't know if there are long term effects that have yet to make themselves felt.

For example, if it turns out 10 years from now that everybody who got vaccinated has become infertile, will the benefits have outweighed the risks?