mRNA Spike protein is very dangerous, it's cytotoxic - says INVENTOR of mRNA Technology

[buka001]

No. because the data has been collected over the same period which by default means the vaccination variable is consistent across variants.

But the Delta variant was not prevalent over the full period.

In that report the Delta variant accounted for 99% of cases from the 27th of June. Showing a late surge of Delta cases compared to Alpha.

 

[AlphaJohn]

For example, if it turns out 10 years from now that everybody who got vaccinated has become infertile, will the benefits have outweighed the risks?

At the close to 50 with no offspring... I'm cool with that.

Besides the planet as a whole would actually see that one, as a positive.

 

[JangoFett]

At the close to 50 with no offspring... I'm cool with that.

Besides the planet as a whole would actually see that one, as a positive.

Depends. What percentage of the population are we talking about? Are we assuming that fertile people will find other fertile people to couple with? Seeing as the vaccine has become a political issue, while humanity might largely wipe itself out, the ones who remain will certainly be a suspicious lot...

 

[Geoff.D]

You said that the known known outweighed the known unknown. But you don't know that while the known unknown remains unkown. You don't know if there are long term effects that have yet to make themselves felt.

For example, if it turns out 10 years from now that everybody who got vaccinated has become infertile, will the benefits have outweighed the risks?

In SA it might actually be a great idea.

 

[AlphaJohn]

Depends. What percentage of the population are we talking about? Are we assuming that fertile people will find other fertile people to couple with? Seeing as the vaccine has become a political issue, while humanity might largely wipe itself out, the ones who remain will certainly be a suspicious lot...

Again... you say that as a bad thing?

 

[Markd]

Ah starting to backtrack are you?
My point was that all should stop making absolute statements. We require at least 5 years to pass before a ruling can be made regarding adverse reactions to the mRNA vaccines.

Why 5 years specifically?

 

[tetrasect]

Divorcing the spike protein from the virus that comes with it is a great way to train the immune system to go after everything that has the spike protein, which could include substances the body naturally produces, leading to long term consequences that aren't immediately apparent.

LOL are you just dreaming stuff up now?
Please name a single substance that our bodies produce that has a spike protein.

Are you even following the debate? Let me explain...

From the South African graphs, at this very moment in a largely unvaccinated population, it would be reasonable to conclude that the CFR from the 3rd wave (Delta) to be less than the CFR from the 2nd wave (Beta). We know Delta is dominant in South Africa.

The UK graphs, in a largely vaccinated population, tell us that total deaths are way down so we have to look at the raw data to ascertain which variant is more deadly.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001358/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_18.pdf

The above link contains that data.

Are you even following the debate?

You replied to @sand_man 's diagram showing how UK's vaccine rollout had dramatically reduced Covid-19 deaths by implying that it is largely due to the Delta variant being less deadly. That hypotheses has been proven to be BS.

Stop shifting goalposts and making out as if this is about determining if the Delta variant is in fact less deadly when you were clearly using your "Delta=less deadly" statement to dismiss the efficacy of the vaccines.

 

[Geoff.D]

Why 5 years specifically?

Because on average, that seems to be the duration of previous vaccine trials before they were approved.

 

[tetrasect]

You said that the known known outweighed the known unknown. But you don't know that while the known unknown remains unkown. You don't know if there are long term effects that have yet to make themselves felt.

For example, if it turns out 10 years from now that everybody who got vaccinated has become infertile, will the benefits have outweighed the risks?

Yes. That might actually save the human race along with all the other species that haven't gone extinct yet due to our activities.

 

[JangoFett]

LOL are you just dreaming stuff up now?
Please name a single substance that our bodies produce that has a spike protein.

What's the human body equivalent of the thing that goes in the ACE2 receptor? Why's it different from a spike protein such that the immune system might not attack whatever goes in the receptor in an auto-immune fashion?

 

[JangoFett]

Yes. That might actually save the human race along with all the other species that haven't gone extinct yet due to our activities.

Much more likely to cause the extinction of the human race due to geopolitical instabilities arising from aging populations...

 

[AlphaJohn]

 

[tetrasect]

What's the human body equivalent of the thing that goes in the ACE2 receptor? Why's it different from a spike protein such that the immune system might not attack whatever goes in the receptor in an auto-immune fashion?

Nicotine for one binds to that receptor, which is why it has been shown that smokers have a massively reduced risk of getting infected with the coronavirus (Basically the nicotine is already bound to those receptors so there is no space for the virus).

But nicotine does not have a spike protein and the ACE2 receptor does not require a spike protein and nicotine is not produced in the body.

Your hypotheses holds no water whatsoever.

 

[JangoFett]

Nicotine for one binds to that receptor, which is why it has been shown that smokers have a massively reduced risk of getting infected with the coronavirus (Basically the nicotine is already bound to those receptors so there is no space for the virus).

But nicotine does not have a spike protein and the ACE2 receptor does not require a spike protein and nicotine is not produced in the body.

Your hypotheses holds no water whatsoever.

So you don't know what endogenous substances go into the ACE2 receptor that the spike protein also fits, which the antibodies are trained to identify based on the fitting and then destroy?

 

[tetrasect]

Because on average, that seems to be the duration of previous vaccine trials before they were approved.

Can you give a single example of an adverse effect appearing years after administering any vaccine at any time?

 

[Geoff.D]

Nicotine for one binds to that receptor, which is why it has been shown that smokers have a massively reduced risk of getting infected with the coronavirus (Basically the nicotine is already bound to those receptors so there is no space for the virus).

But nicotine does not have a spike protein and the ACE2 receptor does not require a spike protein and nicotine is not produced in the body.

Your hypotheses holds no water whatsoever.

Did he formulate a hypothesis or just ask a question?

 

[AlphaJohn]

Nicotine for one binds to that receptor, which is why it has been shown that smokers have a massively reduced risk of getting infected with the coronavirus (Basically the nicotine is already bound to those receptors so there is no space for the virus).

But nicotine does not have a spike protein and the ACE2 receptor does not require a spike protein and nicotine is not produced in the body.

Your hypotheses holds no water whatsoever.

Last I checked is cause Nicotine damages the ACE2 receptor?

anyway:

ACE2 is a vital element in a biochemical pathway that is critical to regulating processes such as blood pressure, wound healing and inflammation, called the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system (RAAS) pathway.

ACE2 helps modulate the many activities of a protein called angiotensin II (ANG II) that increases blood pressure and inflammation, increasing damage to blood vessel linings and various types of tissue injury. ACE2 converts ANG II to other molecules that counteract the effects of ANG II.

Of greatest relevance to COVID-19, ANG II can increase inflammation and the death of cells in the alveoli which are critical for bringing oxygen into the body; these harmful effects of ANG II are reduced by ACE2.

When the SARS-CoV-2 virus binds to ACE2, it prevents ACE2 from performing its normal function to regulate ANG II signaling. Thus, ACE2 action is “inhibited,” removing the brakes from ANG II signaling and making more ANG II available to injure tissues. This “decreased braking” likely contributes to injury, especially to the lungs and heart, in COVID-19 patients.

What is the ACE2 receptor, how is it connected to coronavirus and why might it be key to treating COVID-19? The experts explain

The ACE2 receptor allows the virus that causes COVID-19 to infect and destroy our cells. What is the normal role of ACE2 in the body, and could it be the key to blocking infection?

theconversation.com

 

[Geoff.D]

Can you give a single example of an adverse effect appearing years after administering any vaccine at any time?

Not off the cuff. Would have to research vaccine trials.

 

[tetrasect]

So you don't know what endogenous substances go into the ACE2 receptor that the spike protein also fits, which the antibodies are trained to identify based on the fitting and then destroy?

There are no endogenous substances with the spike protein. The spike protein is unique to viruses.

 

[JangoFett]

There are no endogenous substances with the spike protein. The spike protein is unique to viruses.

You dodged my question.