Mthethwa asks SA Rugby to take action after eight players refuse to bend the knee in support of BLM in England

[Cray]

Still how is this the fault of those Police officers and why is it racial. They had a warrant - so their entry was legal. Do you dispute that?

No, but I dispute whether no knock warrants should be legal in a country that allows people to defend their homes with firearms...

Am not suggesting it was necessarily racial, it might have been it may not, but the fact is that a woman with no criminal record and no gun was shot eight times by police and instead of looking at this as a major problem with policing this is shrugged off and explained away by saying the cop was fired.= from his job so all good.

Answer this question, would you be on the side of the homeowner if it had been a group of random strangers with guns had broken into that home? Would you consider that the homeowner was within his rights to shoot those intruders?

 

[Cray]

For the record.
Do you think that the players that did not take the knee are racist/s for not taking the knee?

No, people should/can take the knee if they support the cause. If they have doubts about the cause or don't feel comfortable doing it - that doesn't make them racists.

 

[Sinbad]

The rugby players who did not "take the knee" weren't politically smart; they should have taken the knee even if it is something they do not necessarily agree with. Had they all taken the knee, there wouldn't have been all this drama and outrage. It is like people who make controversial tweets and statements, then act surprised when things blow up in their faces (or time lines)

That's just giving in to bullying.

 

[Vrotappel]

No, but I dispute whether no knock warrants should be legal in a country that allows people to defend their homes with firearms...

Am not suggesting it was necessarily racial, it might have been it may not, but the fact is that a woman with no criminal record and no gun was shot eight times by police and instead of looking at this as a major problem with policing this is shrugged off and explained away by saying the cop was fired.= from his job so all good.

Answer this question, would you be on the side of the homeowner if it had been a group of random strangers with guns had broken into that home? Would you consider that the homeowner was within his rights to shoot those intruders?

So first of all you have a problem with the warrant - that is above the police's pay grade. It also immediately removes any racial connotation. Why is this then made a race thing by BLM?

I agree with the home owner defending himself if he believed he was under attack and I also agree with the police defending themselves when they were attacked.

 

[Ponderer]

No, people should/can take the knee if they support the cause. If they have doubts about the cause or don't feel comfortable doing it - that doesn't make them racists.

Do you think that the lives of "blacks" matter more than the lives of "non-blacks"?

 

[Vrotappel]

The rugby players who did not "take the knee" weren't politically smart; they should have taken the knee even if it is something they do not necessarily agree with. Had they all taken the knee, there wouldn't have been all this drama and outrage. It is like people who make controversial tweets and statements, then act surprised when things blow up in their faces (or time lines)

BLM died a long time ago; the cause has been hijacked by politicians and fake news media. Same thing happened to Fees Must Fall... a legitimate cause which got hijacked by politicians and fake news media. We can all take the knee, create petitions, and protest; unfortunately, these actions do very little in addressing issues faced with society.

You don't win RWCs with a taking the knee mindset just to appease the weak minded.

 

[Cray]

So first of all you have a problem with the warrant - that is above the police's pay grade.

Police are responsible for applying for their own warrants, saying that getting a particular type of warrant is above their pay grade is a cop-out...

It also immediately removes any racial connotation. Why is this then made a race thing by BLM?

Because an innocent black person getting shot by police is something that shouldn't happen in civilized society, this could just as easily have happened to a white person but that doesn't make it any less of an injustice.

I agree with the home owner defending himself if he believed he was under attack and I also agree with the police defending themselves when they were attacked.

So an innocent person dies and yet no one did anything wrong -carry on as normal, no lessons to learn here? If someone breaks into your apartment after midnight with possible intent to kill you just prey they aren't cops because they will murder you in retaliation for defending your home.

 

[Cray]

Do you think that the lives of "blacks" matter more than the lives of "non-blacks"?

Nope.

 

[Willie Trombone]

The rugby players who did not "take the knee" weren't politically smart; they should have taken the knee even if it is something they do not necessarily agree with. Had they all taken the knee, there wouldn't have been all this drama and outrage. It is like people who make controversial tweets and statements, then act surprised when things blow up in their faces (or time lines)

BLM died a long time ago; the cause has been hijacked by politicians and fake news media. Same thing happened to Fees Must Fall... a legitimate cause which got hijacked by politicians and fake news media. We can all take the knee, create petitions, and protest; unfortunately, these actions do very little in addressing issues faced with society.

Billy Vunipola disagrees.
Nobody should do something because they are being bullied.

 

[Vrotappel]

Police are responsible for applying for their own warrants, saying that getting a particular type of warrant is above their pay grade is a cop-out...



Because an innocent black person getting shot by police is something that shouldn't happen in civilized society, this could just as easily have happened to a white person but that doesn't make it any less of an injustice.


So an innocent person dies and yet no one did anything wrong -carry on as normal, no lessons to learn here? If someone breaks into your apartment after midnight with possible intent to kill you just prey they aren't cops because they will murder you in retaliation for defending your home.

The police don't grant the warrants. No cop out - that is the process. If you have a problem with the warrant process you need to address it at a level much higher than the Police officers. Those Police officers were simply executing standard procedure.

So a legal warrant, executed legally - simply no way you can try and argue this away and make it the Police's fault or make it racial.

The moment the person decided to shoot at the Police is where things first went wrong. Once that first shot was fired the Police were in fact defending themselves. How can you argue against this?

 

[Ponderer]

...
Because an innocent black person getting shot by police is something that shouldn't happen in civilized society, this could just as easily have happened to a white person but that doesn't make it any less of an injustice.
...

And there it is.
The racist statement that is not racist.

 

[Cray]

The police don't grant the warrants. No cop out - that is the process. If you have a problem with the warrant process you need to address it at a level much higher than the Police officers. Those Police officers were simply executing standard procedure.

So a legal warrant, executed legally - simply no way you can try and argue this away and make it the Police's fault or make it racial.

The moment the person decided to shoot at the Police is where things first went wrong. Once that first shot was fired the Police were in fact defending themselves. How can you argue against this?

You can't claim self-defence if you put yourself in a dangerous situation where the normal person regards you as a threat to their life, you don't get to claim self-defence if you break into someones home and then you shoot them after they shoot at you -being a cop or a burglar, in this case, makes no difference,

Legal or not it stinks and that is the reason this jurisdiction has suspended no-knock warrants.

 

[Cray]

And there it is.
The racist statement that is not racist.

Begone troll, you are just tiresome as ever.

 

[Ponderer]

Begone troll, you are just tiresome as ever.

In your response, you bolded "racist".
You accusing me of being a racist?

 

[Vrotappel]

Begone troll, you are just tiresome as ever.

Freudian slip?

Fact is the whole process apply to all races. Why is it about black? If a white person was killed here would there be this outcry? It might as well have been a white person.

 

[Mrcricket]

They outcompete the local black population that has a massive advantage over them.

They are not well-off but they usually come with enough capital to start a business. I've even seen a few rent in big shopping malls which is not cheap.

 

[grok]

The rugby players who did not "take the knee" weren't politically smart; they should have taken the knee even if it is something they do not necessarily agree with. Had they all taken the knee, there wouldn't have been all this drama and outrage. It is like people who make controversial tweets and statements, then act surprised when things blow up in their faces (or time lines)

So what you saying is that George Floyd shouldn't have resisted arrest and instead complied exactly with what the police required of him, then there wouldn't have been all this drama and outrage around his death?

Not very politically smart to get cocky when nice men with guns tells you to comply with their orders.

 

[Cray]

Freudian slip?

if you find yourself on the same side as that one you might want to re-examine your life choices...

Fact is the whole process apply to all races. Why is it about black? If a white person was killed here would there be this outcry? It might as well have been a white person.

Do you think an innocent person being gunned down in their own home (irrespective of race) is worthy of an outcry, and if you don't, why not... ?

This incident of a white guy being shot by police got attention and drew outrage..

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...tal-police-shooting-ryan-whitaker/5459142002/

So did this one...

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...lice-killing-without-a-hint-of-racism/546983/

What is it wrong that police killings are getting exposure and causing outrage?

 

[Vrotappel]

if you find yourself on the same side as that one you might want to re-examine your life choices...


Do you think an innocent person being gunned down in their own home (irrespective of race) is worthy of an outcry, and if you don't, why not... ?

This incident of a white guy being shot by police got attention and drew outrage..

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...tal-police-shooting-ryan-whitaker/5459142002/

So did this one...

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...lice-killing-without-a-hint-of-racism/546983/

What is it wrong that police killings are getting exposure and causing outrage?

So besides the goal post shifting going on I agree that this whole scenario is a mess. You cannot actually blame anyone except criminality in general.

I however was more concerned with the racial angle on this specific incident. It seems it was just used by BLM for mileage and followed by the brain dead. A little bit of common sense will show it is not racial in any sense. Same with the ANC dog trying to get mileage.

If you for one minute think they are doing because 'black lives matter' I want to sell you a bridge.

 

[Cray]

So besides the goal post shifting going on I agree that this whole scenario is a mess. You cannot actually blame anyone except criminality in general.

Dodgy laws and things like no-knock warrants are the problems, blaming criminality, in general, is as bad as shrugging your shoulders and just accepting that police will continue to kill innocents. No-knock warrants came about because police were scared that drug dealers would flush their drugs if the police knocked, considering the massive failure that is the war on drugs and considering incidents like Taylor, there is certainly a lot that can be done to reduce the incidence of things like that happening again.