Mthethwa asks SA Rugby to take action after eight players refuse to bend the knee in support of BLM in England

[boramk]

I don't think that they need to justify why they're not kneeling. One can be against racism without feeling the need to justify that stance by participating in the latest flavour of the month action.
An example could be that someone is pro what the blm slogan represents, but be against other aspects of what blm as movement and political entity represents.
When the sportsman kneels is he in support of anti-racism or does kneeling boost support to all aspects of the blm organisations ideology?
The climate is so, that whatever action the sportsmen take they'd be judged. So to avoid any hassles some will kneel regardless of their views.

Yeah you hit the nail on the head.

You kneel or you don't. Even trying to have a discussion with players who didn't is pointless and taking action against those that don't is even worse. It hurts the movement rather than help it even.

 

[Flanders]

So this is what I mean by ignorance, and when I say ignorance, just the textbook definition of the word, not using it as an insult by any means - want to clarify that.

White lives matter, as does Asian lives, Hispanic lives etc. BLM isn't saying BL>WL or BL>AL, or that any other lives matter less. It's pointing out to the issue at hand, that right now, black lives don't seem to matter as much. Because it's factual black people are killed far more than any other race in the US...

LOL, so apply this to SA and the springboks. I know you are no longer here so may not appreciate that whatever noble intentions the US BLM movement may have (which I happen to believe is BS anyway and far more nefarious), does not apply in other countries. If you think the BLM trend in SA is to honour the US situation, you'd be mistaken.

If anything, by following this logic, SA should have WLM and I can tell you right now if I saw a black person taking a knee for WLM, I would find it cringe worthy AF and I would ask for them to stand up and have some fscking dignity.

 

[Willie Trombone]

Tired of saying this, BLM is about having people acknowledge black lives matter. Because this country kills black people disproportionately. Because my black friends were given talks as children not to give attitude to cops. Because my black friends were taught to always have their hands in visible places if ever stopped. Because black people are killed by cops, disproportionally. And they shouldn't, because black lives matter. Real simple, no idea why this is such a difficult concept to understand.

No, BLM is that to you. Happy for you. Go right ahead and take a knee. To me BLM is hypocrisy. Did you start caring about black lives this year? There are people who couldn't give a rats about symbols and gestures but prefer to get on with the job of loving their neighbour. Do you care equally about black lives as you do about Pakistani lives? Why aren't you kneeling for Pakistani children being forced into slavery? What about muslim Uighurs? Is their plight below black Americans? What about African blacks? When last did you see an American bend the knee for an African? Don't you find that a little hypocritical? And how, may I ask, has bending the knee benefitted ordinary Africans? Don't you find it hypocritical that our politicians have an opinion on sports people not bending the knee when they don't lift a finger to make the lives of poor blacks in South Africa better?

I get on with doing my job and loving my neighbour and correcting my attitudes quietly, I don't get kicks from being seen on one knee making a statement... in fact I would actively oppose the hypocrisy of it. People need to stop grandstanding and put their money where their mouths are, especially these politicians.

You seem upset about the fact that the Boks have to kneel, then be upset that other's are being told not to. You can't be a hypocrite.

We were discussing the former. Who says I agree with anyone who tells others not to? Please quote me. "You seem"... I think therein lies the issue.

 

[Jabulani22]

That's actually not true. Maybe unbias your news sources or don't make things up?
Black people are killed by black cops a lot yes, and the exact figure is actually about the same rate as white cops. That's not great either, but a black city or neighborhood also creates black cops so it makes sense. Regardless, this isn't about the ethnicity of the cops for me.


This is honestly a can of worms and I can go into a lot more detail if you'd like about why this is the case. That said black people, even if they are criminals, shouldn't be killed.

There were riots in Chicago last weekend because cops shot a black man, who shot at them first. That guy has no sympathy from me and any BLM protests around that would be incredibly stupid. This is more for people who were unarmed and killed, be it George Floyd, Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner etc.

Open that can of worms right up then , official crime stats are welcome.
Did you just put 2 *alleged* criminals in with a case of self defense and expect sympathy ?
BLM need better "martyrs".

 

[Brenden_E]

So this is what I mean by ignorance, and when I say ignorance, just the textbook definition of the word, not using it as an insult by any means - want to clarify that.

White lives matter, as does Asian lives, Hispanic lives etc. BLM isn't saying BL>WL or BL>AL, or that any other lives matter less. It's pointing out to the issue at hand, that right now, black lives don't seem to matter as much. Because it's factual black people are killed far more than any other race in the US- I know a lot of people here wh oare anti-BLM will bring up that white people are actually killed more in total numbers, but this mathematically ignores that there are 5-6x more white people than black. When adjusted for proportion, you are more than twice as likely to be killed if you are black.

And take it from someone who was also skeptical of the movement earlier on - I truly felt the movement was alienating people by saying only black lives matter, when this wasn't the case at all after someone explained this to me and I read more about it.

Again, empathy helps you gain these perspectives; we truly are lucky in that we don't have to think about these things. It was eye opening to me to hear my black friends tell me that they get pulled over often, that they get nervous around cops (like why would I ever be nervous around cops?), that their parents had to teach them how to deal with cops as children, that they have to think about what they wear at night (I had a friend tell me he specifically avoids wearing hoodies because the general populace sees a hoody'd black man as dangerous).

This long response is just riddled by ignorance. And when I say ignorance, just the textbook definition of the word, not using it as an insult by any means.

Statistically, black people aren't being killed en masse by cops.



The second argument that blacks are disproportionally targeted is also easily disproven. They kill a disproportionate number of people both inside and outside their communities.




So even though the black populace make up 13.4% of the population, in some instances they kill more in sheer number than 72% of the population. That is a huge statistical anomaly! There is a culture issue that needs to be adressed.

Black people have adopted a culture of voilence and non-compliance. Unless their behaviour is addressed, this trend will continue. Black lives don't matter, and it's the black population that don't value it with their actions and values.

 

[CAPS LOCK]

That's actually not true. Maybe unbias your news sources or don't make things up?
Black people are killed by black cops a lot yes, and the exact figure is actually about the same rate as white cops. That's not great either, but a black city or neighborhood also creates black cops so it makes sense. Regardless, this isn't about the ethnicity of the cops for me.


This is honestly a can of worms and I can go into a lot more detail if you'd like about why this is the case. That said black people, even if they are criminals, shouldn't be killed.

There were riots in Chicago last weekend because cops shot a black man, who shot at them first. That guy has no sympathy from me and any BLM protests around that would be incredibly stupid. This is more for people who were unarmed and killed, be it George Floyd, Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner etc.

White South African rugby players in England causes you, wherever you are, to foam at the mouth because of black people in USA?

Man oh man, your virtue signalling is so big it needs its own dedicated broadband spectrum to carry it.

 

[boramk]

No, BLM is that to you. Happy for you. Go right ahead and take a knee.

It's literally on their website.

To me BLM is hypocrisy. Did you start caring about black lives this year? There are people who couldn't give a rats about symbols and gestures but prefer to get on with the job of loving their neighbour. Do you care equally about black lives as you do about Pakistani lives? Why aren't you kneeling for Pakistani children being forced into slavery? What about muslim Uighurs? Is their plight below black Americans? What about African blacks?

This is a wild thought, but bear with me.... You can care about all of those things?

What does it say about you that just saying black lives matter means all of a sudden none of these other things are the antithesis of BLM? What does it say about you that you are so angry that people may think that black lives matter?

It's tiring seeing your whataboutisms.

If you think black people's lives matter, and that looting is wrong then hey, you and I have the exact viewpoint. So tell me where this divergence comes from?

When last did you see an American bend the knee for an African? Don't you find that a little hypocritical? And how, may I ask, has bending the knee benefitted ordinary Africans? Don't you find it hypocritical that our politicians have an opinion on sports people not bending the knee when they don't lift a finger to make the lives of poor blacks in South Africa better?

You should probably direct these questions to Mthethwa because I see no relevance in any other country bending the knee than than showing solidarity.

We were discussing the former. Who says I agree with anyone who tells others not to? Please quote me. "You seem"... I think therein lies the issue.

Fair enough. My assumption was wrong, you either don't care that others are kneeling or have never been upset that players have keeled right?

 

[boramk]

White South African rugby players in England causes you, wherever you are, to foam at the mouth because of black people in USA?

Man oh man, your virtue signalling is so big it needs its own dedicated broadband spectrum to carry it.

Yeh the literacy in South Africa is dismal if you read that I think any of those rugby players should be kneeling.

 

[Vrotappel]

Ah the slippery slope fallacy. you're right man, detention barracks after we let players kneel, and then afterwards, they will take away our rights to vote, and then after that they will make us all have the same name!

Tired of saying this, BLM is about having people acknowledge black lives matter. Because this country kills black people disproportionately. Because my black friends were given talks as children not to give attitude to cops. Because my black friends were taught to always have their hands in visible places if ever stopped. Because black people are killed by cops, disproportionally. And they shouldn't, because black lives matter. Real simple, no idea why this is such a difficult concept to understand.

You seem upset about the fact that the Boks have to kneel, then be upset that other's are being told not to. You can't be a hypocrite.

So you are from the USA. Any comments on why black people are disproportionately responsible fro crime as well? Do you understand cause and effect?

 

[boramk]

So you are from the USA. Any comments on why black people are disproportionately responsible fro crime as well? Do you understand cause and effect?

I'm from South Africa.

It's actually very similar to South Africa. Yeah if you're poor and uneducated, shockingly you turn to crime.

 

[Brenden_E]

I'm from South Africa.

It's actually very similar to South Africa. Yeah if you're poor and uneducated, shockingly you turn to crime.

Shockingly, poor immigrants from Asia don't have that problem. They outcompete the local black population that has a massive advantage over them.

I wonder how your cognitive dissonance will reconcile that. Let's see...

 

[Willie Trombone]

It's literally on their website.

LMAO And the ANC is against corruption. It's there on their website: http://joeslovo.anc.org.za/content/ancwl-statement-court-judgement-against-ms-dudu-myeni

This is a wild thought, but bear with me.... You can care about all of those things?

And more. You do not?

What does it say about you that just saying black lives matter means all of a sudden none of these other things are the antithesis of BLM? What does it say about you that you are so angry that people may think that black lives matter?

What does it say about you that you assume I am angry that people may think black lives matter. I already explained my stance, and it has little to do with black lives not mattering. If there's one thing that makes me angry, it's because people love to grandstand when they actually care less. What irks me is that people think it's their god given right to dictate to others how they should show love and solidarity to people of another race.

My assumption was wrong, you either don't care that others are kneeling or have never been upset that players have keeled right?

Why would I be upset that people are kneeling? What irks me is when people tell me or others how they should show solidarity. It's hypocrisy.

 

[Brenden_E]

How come there's so few Asian's in these fight compilations? Weird that hey @boramk
It's almost like it's more common for Black people to be violent and fight than any other race. Who knew. Well, that's exactly what the statistics tell us.

 

[Vrotappel]

I'm from South Africa.

It's actually very similar to South Africa. Yeah if you're poor and uneducated, shockingly you turn to crime.

So now you blame poverty. Care to explain why places that are much poorer don't have this violent crime? This is besides the fact that the average black American is pretty well off actually.

 

[Brenden_E]

How many 12-year-old Asian girls stab other people. Weird how that doesn't happen, hey @boramk

P.S these are middle-class and not poor African Americans

 

[Moosedrool]

Oh my god you are so dumb you literally just proved my point with this graph! Do you want me to edit it in Paint to show you why or should I let you try figure it out first on your own?

Look at the next graph:

Not even the point I was raising - this has nothing to do with police violence.

Oh you did look and failed to interpret why he posted reasoning why more POC have a brush in with law enforcement.

Yeah black people commit more crimes, not because of poverty but because of their culture of violence? Your dog whistle is loud af everyone can hear it.

You got it! Shyte!

How did you write all that in one post not realising that's exactly what he's saying providing multiple pieces of evidence?

Now, is it the cops fault that black people in the USA are represented higher per capita in poverty situations?

 

[Brenden_E]

Look at the next graph:



Oh you did look and failed to interpret why he posted reasoning why more POC have a brush in with law enforcement.



You got it! Shyte!

How did you write all that in one post not realising that's exactly what he's saying providing multiple pieces of evidence?

Now, is it the cops fault that black people in the USA are represented higher per capita in poverty situations?

And he got his causality the wrong way around.

The violent culture adopted by African-Americans leads to poverty. Poor Asians escaped poverty in the USA in less than a generation due to their focus on education and incredible work ethic.

Which is the poorest group of white people in America? Rednecks. Can you spot any similarities between Redneck culture and African-American culture? Whelp! If only it wasn't so obvious...

 

[boramk]

Shockingly, poor immigrants from Asia don't have that problem. They outcompete the local black population that has a massive advantage over them.

I wonder how your cognitive dissonance will reconcile that. Let's see...

Here's another shocker, turns out poor immigrants from Asia do have a higher crime rate.

But no hey, I really want to fit in here: it's the blacks, it's in them, they're violent by nature

 

[Brenden_E]

Here's another shocker, turns out poor immigrants from Asia do have a higher crime rate.

But no hey, I really want to fit in here: it's the blacks, it's in them, they're violent by nature

Violent by culture, you obtuse frog.

 

[boramk]

Look at the next graph:

The shocking level of education in South Africa is shown in your inability to understand proportionality. If you can't see how the fool proved my point it's because you're in the same boat.

Oh you did look and failed to interpret why he posted reasoning why more POC have a brush in with law enforcement.

When will this idiot circle jerk end? I'll try lead you to the pasture...
There are 5x more white people than black people in the US. There's also 12x as many as Asians, 4x as many Hispanics. Now adjust the weights of the demographics on the first graph and second graph from Brenden.

Now, is it the cops fault that black people in the USA are represented higher per capita in poverty situations?

Like who is even saying this? do you need more hay for your strawman?