Muhammed and the Satanic Verses.

rambo919

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Please enlighten us what would be a rational fear of Islam or muslims?

Because it seems you are intent defending a person who has no issues making up nonsense to support what he believes (and using sources of people labeled as bigots not only by muslims but many other academics).

There is nothing Rational about what he says about muslims -
I was not defending anyone, and I get the idea no matter what I say you will take it the wrong way at this point.

But anyway:

It is generally wise to fear any extremest religion especially if it has a track record of negative events. But also this has caveats.

It's perfectly rational for example to fear the Catholic or ultra-Calvinist types but it's irrational to fear Christians as an whole. Islam on the other hand started where these two ended so it's the other way around where Islam is to be feared but certain types of Islam not. Christianity was corrupted with violent supressionist tendencies but that's how Islam first started after which it became more peaceful. Now Christianity has no dominant suppressionists left except for the Catholic Church that is attempting a renneisance but Islam has a few that is gaining strength.

We have a history of suppresionist Calvinism here but it was thankfully Calvinism-lite. Anyone that moans about the NGK does not understand that it was day compared to the night that Calvinism was in Europe at the time of it's origin.... lets just say dissent was unwise.

In all cases also you can hate or fear groups without hating or fearing the individuals within those groups. Islam has a long history of being a dangerous neighbour, it is unwise to ignore that. Only time will tell whether South African Islam ever becomes suppresionist so at this point fearing local Muslims is mostly irrational and generally tinged it seems with a false belief that within every mosque lies a unofficial ISIS requirement office.... though that group HAS been active within the country for the last decade maybe.
 

isie

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I was not defending anyone, and I get the idea no matter what I say you will take it the wrong way at this point.
if you look at the context of who was being replied to why , and you response you can clearly see why it seemed as if you were defending or justifying him?


But anyway:

It is generally wise to fear any extremest religion especially if it has a track record of negative events. But also this has caveats.
To fear extremist of a religion as you call them is not irrational but to fear all who practice the same religion cause of them is (especially if they denounce them.)


It's perfectly rational for example to fear the Catholic or ultra-Calvinist types but it's irrational to fear Christians as an whole. Islam on the other hand started where these two ended so it's the other way around where Islam is to be feared but certain types of Islam not. Christianity was corrupted with violent supressionist tendencies but that's how Islam first started after which it became more peaceful. Now Christianity has no dominant suppressionists left except for the Catholic Church that is attempting a renneisance but Islam has a few that is gaining strength.


We have a history of suppresionist Calvinism here but it was thankfully Calvinism-lite. Anyone that moans about the NGK does not understand that it was day compared to the night that Calvinism was in Europe at the time of it's origin.... lets just say dissent was unwise.

In all cases also you can hate or fear groups without hating or fearing the individuals within those groups. Islam has a long history of being a dangerous neighbour, it is unwise to ignore that. Only time will tell whether South African Islam ever becomes suppresionist so at this point fearing local Muslims is mostly irrational and generally tinged it seems with a false belief that within every mosque lies a unofficial ISIS requirement office.... though that group HAS been active within the country for the last decade maybe.
here is my point
if you fear or hate Isis that doesn't make you islamophobic - its a rational response to an actual threat (clearly not perceived) - and majority muslims feel the same way about them.

If you suspect they may have an influence some may say borderline but i wont say Islamophobic

but if you make claims that we are all part of ISIS and just hiding the fact of this and believe they are correct etc (like we have been accused of many times) guess what that will make you
 

MR.C

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if you look at the context of who was being replied to why , and you response you can clearly see why it seemed as if you were defending or justifying him?




To fear extremist of a religion as you call them is not irrational but to fear all who practice the same religion cause of them is (especially if they denounce them.)




here is my point
if you fear or hate Isis that doesn't make you islamophobic - its a rational response to an actual threat (clearly not perceived) - and majority muslims feel the same way about them.

If you suspect they may have an influence some may say borderline but i wont say Islamophobic

but if you make claims that we are all part of ISIS and just hiding the fact of this and believe they are correct etc (like we have been accused of many times) guess what that will make you
What's the answer to the question in the last line ?
George Bush ?
 

rambo919

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but if you make claims that we are all part of ISIS and just hiding the fact of this and believe they are correct etc (like we have been accused of many times) guess what that will make you
What you have there is rational fears being subverted by ignorance and being expressed irrationally, such people are not so much Islamophobic they are npc's incapable of independent thought.

On the other hand there are people that paint all of Islam as extremist if the Islam in question is being expressed fully, unfortunately both the most of Islamic history and current leading religious leaders have only helped cement this viewpoint. These people are mostly not Islamophobic even if it's a label easily applied to many of them.

My issue was specifically the mostly inaccurate usage of the term "Islamophobic" which tends to be used as a way to attempt to silence opposition without actually addressing the actual arguments made. The common usage is as a propaganda dagger which alone is why many people dislike it.
 

FrankCastle

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And so your thinking is like the following ?
Correct me if you are wrong ?


"The term anti-semite is invented by snowflake Jews who cant defend their Prophet. I, FrankCastle, am just a critic of Judaism and if you analyse the religious jokes thread a lot of the stuff there attempts to mock or critique the failure of religion."

And,

"The term racist is invented by snowflake people who cant defend their colour. I, FrankCastle, am just a critic of different shades of human and if you analyse the racist jokes thread a lot of the stuff there attempts to mock or critique the failure of all different shades of humans."

And also

"The term homophobia is invented by snowflake gays and lesbians who cant defend their sexual orientation/preference. I, FrankCastle, am just a critic of gays and lesbians and if you analyse the gay and lesbian jokes thread a lot of the stuff there attempts to mock or critique the failure of their sexual orientation/preference."



How else do you defend your bias ?
Most of us know deep down what you are and your are pushing the limits of what is allowed on the forum. If the Mods really look into your posts, not sure if you will get a warning or a ban.
Show me Jews who are operating a terrorist organisation using the Quran for inspiration.
Show me jews who feel that their own religious laws should supersede the democratic laws of the country they reside in. Laws which are in direct violation of freedom of speech, human rights and equality.
Show me Jewish religious texts that call for the destruction of infidels and non believers.

And you want to compare islamaphobia with anti Semitism.

Furthermore you cannot deny that these are the fundamental tenets of Islam. Watch that "context" video I posted. It sums it up quite clearly.
 

FrankCastle

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My question to you was "Have you sat down and had a conversation with a Muslim person, a scholar, a Moulana so that you can be enlightened about your ISLAMAPHOBIA ?"

You seem to have misunderstood it as I meant that you have to sit down face to face and have a conversation with a human being. I didn't ask if you had watched different YouTube videos. It's not the same, hope you understand why.
How do you expect me to listen to someone who firmly believes that their prophet rode on a flying donkey and has no issues with him marrying an 11 year old child?
 

MEIOT

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How do you expect me to listen to someone who firmly believes that their prophet rode on a flying donkey and has no issues with him marrying an 11 year old child?
Wow - you are so misinformed. Your facts are pulled out of thin air.

It was NOT a flying donkey nor was his bride 11.

It was a flying horse and his bride was 6 or 7.

If you're going to hate - hate with facts!!!
 

berrypi

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Promotion of hate speech on a SOUTH AFRICAN website not on... further more there is a law around this... as MODS you are failing, thereby endorsing. So should this be sent to some place claiming promotion of hate speech by MyBB, you guys are kinda screwed. period. The law. Like paying taxes. You hate it but accountable to it.
 

MR.C

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How do you expect me to listen to someone who firmly believes that their prophet rode on a flying donkey and has no issues with him marrying an 11 year old child?
I don't know where you got donkey from cos the word is Buraaq which translates into electricity or lightning. 1400 years ago it couldn't be comprehended but in this day and age, it is more believable because we have electricity, electronics and a better understanding of what could be possible with all the advances in technology and the rate at which it is progressing.

So I'm gonna ask you for a favour, please do not do your own research rather speak to a human being, OR, give it a rest.
 

rambo919

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Wow - you are so misinformed. Your facts are pulled out of thin air.

It was NOT a flying donkey nor was his bride 11.

It was a flying horse and his bride was 6 or 7.

If you're going to hate - hate with facts!!!
Actually the bride was 6 or 7, the consummation was 9 or 11.
 

rambo919

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I don't know where you got donkey from cos the word is Buraaq which translates into electricity or lightning. 1400 years ago it couldn't be comprehended but in this day and age, it is more believable because we have electricity, electronics and a better understanding of what could be possible with all the advances in technology and the rate at which it is progressing.

So I'm gonna ask you for a favour, please do not do your own research rather speak to a human being, OR, give it a rest.
Satan has a habit of being associated with lightning..... which is probably why that translation is not widely promoted.
 

FrankCastle

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Wow - you are so misinformed. Your facts are pulled out of thin air.

It was NOT a flying donkey nor was his bride 11.

It was a flying horse and his bride was 6 or 7.

If you're going to hate - hate with facts!!!
It was described by authentic sources as being larger than a donkey and smaller than a mule, so nowhere near a horse either.

If I pull stuff from your teachings, am I hater?

You're correct about the age of marriage but then again it depends on which muslim you ask?

https://www.alislam.org/library/question/muhammad-marry-aisha-six-years/
 

FrankCastle

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I don't know where you got donkey from cos the word is Buraaq which translates into electricity or lightning. 1400 years ago it couldn't be comprehended but in this day and age, it is more believable because we have electricity, electronics and a better understanding of what could be possible with all the advances in technology and the rate at which it is progressing.

So I'm gonna ask you for a favour, please do not do your own research rather speak to a human being, OR, give it a rest.
Lightning was probably just a feature of its speed but multiple authentic hadith sources describe it in detail:
https://sunnah.com/search/?q=buraq

Interestingly, the entire story of the mirage was borrowed from Arda Wiraz night journey in Zoroastrian tradition:
https://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Saifullah/zr_isra.htm
 

Polymathic

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Promotion of hate speech on a SOUTH AFRICAN website not on... further more there is a law around this... as MODS you are failing, thereby endorsing. So should this be sent to some place claiming promotion of hate speech by MyBB, you guys are kinda screwed. period. The law. Like paying taxes. You hate it but accountable to it.
Are you a right wing or left wing snow flake? These days it's hard to tell sometimes
 

isie

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It was described by authentic sources as being larger than a donkey and smaller than a mule, so nowhere near a horse either.
Larger then a donkey but smaller then a mule does not make it a donkey
any way since this is how your logic works
so if i describe you as larger then an a$ $hole but smaller then a horse i guess that makes you an a$ $hole
henceforth we shall all call you a frankasshole and we will all will not have any issues with calling you this as the mods cannot give anyone who calls you frankasshole infraction because as per your interpretation this is correct way to describe you frankasshole.

Thank you frankasshole
 
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MEIOT

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It was described by authentic sources as being larger than a donkey and smaller than a mule, so nowhere near a horse either.
You get small horses that fit that description. Shetland Pony comes to mind. Either way, not relevant. Clearly that didn't happen at all.
Can't believe people are getting so worked up about silly fairy tales. :unsure::ROFL:

Admit it though - wouldn't it be totally badass if some Arabian dude rode a Shetland Pony up in to the skies :love:
 

Okty

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Promotion of hate speech on a SOUTH AFRICAN website not on... further more there is a law around this... as MODS you are failing, thereby endorsing. So should this be sent to some place claiming promotion of hate speech by MyBB, you guys are kinda screwed. period. The law. Like paying taxes. You hate it but accountable to it.
Piss off - this thread is popcorn worthy!:cool::laugh:
 
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