Multiple Myloma - Hemp Oil = quackery

F4bio

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I'm up at this hour driving myself crazy googled multiple myeloma stage 3 stories and prognosis's. My mom was diagnosed with this dreadful disease and it's a particularly aggressive MM she's got, but they are treating it aggressively with chemo and radiation and I won't know for weeks whether she is responding. The pain she must be in is mind boggling (despite every form of the best pain relief). I stumbled upon this hemp oil cure something I'd laughed at before but now when really desperate I'm looking for anything to help.

http://phoenixtears.ca/

I can't seem to find anything to disprove it/indicate it would cause harm anywhere, is it worth a try or can I continue laughing at it (albeit more grimly this time) ?

I figured an IT forum would be filled with well informed people so it was worth asking here! That and I'm just plutzing (and my frantic googling isn't helping) in general as my family is very, very small.

Thanks
 

copacetic

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http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/497220-I-need-the-strongest-proof-alcohol-I-can-find-in-the-country?highlight=

***

Sorry to hear about your mom OP.

You will find a lot of very positive stories about hemp oil, but as TB says, it's not going to cure anything that dramatic (at least not in my estimation, although it certainly does have curative properties with regards to some conditions).

What it very possibly will do is help with the pain as well as alleviate some of the horrible side-effects of the chemo. It is also very unlikely to interfere with ongoing treatment.
 

F4bio

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http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/497220-I-need-the-strongest-proof-alcohol-I-can-find-in-the-country?highlight=

***

Sorry to hear about your mom OP.

You will find a lot of very positive stories about hemp oil, but as TB says, it's not going to cure anything that dramatic (at least not in my estimation, although it certainly does have curative properties with regards to some conditions).

What it very possibly will do is help with the pain as well as alleviate some of the horrible side-effects of the chemo. It is also very unlikely to interfere with ongoing treatment.

Good enough for me.
 

F4bio

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she has cancer....

Hemp Oil will not cure her..

Thanks for the bluntness, really kind.

I'd take that approach too and never really believed it would, but I'm desperate for something to help. Obviously in addition to the chemo and radiation she's getting.
 

copacetic

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Thanks for the bluntness, really kind.

I'd take that approach too and never really believed it would, but I'm desperate for something to help. Obviously in addition to the chemo and radiation she's getting.

Looking at chemo specifically - One important thing when going through a painful, dangerous and frightening disease is the patient's attitude and outlook, which is connected to how you physically feel at any given moment.

If cannabis (in whichever form) can help with the pain and nausea caused by the chemo, then immediately there is a positive benefit that can affect the general outcome.

In your mother's situation, I'd let modern medical science do what it does, and forget about the hemp oil, since it is hard (if not impossible) to obtain, and while relatively simple to make, requires large and very illegal quantities of high quality cannabis (which is not cheap).

I'd just find a source for a small amount of some quality dope, and see if that helps in any manner (it is very unlikely to make anything worse, and there's a great deal of evidence that it will indeed help with the things I've mentioned).

***

That said, I am still fascinated by the general medicinal possibilities of cannabis. It's a pity there's not more research able to be done...
 

RiaX

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Thanks for the bluntness, really kind.

I'd take that approach too and never really believed it would, but I'm desperate for something to help. Obviously in addition to the chemo and radiation she's getting.

And how do you know that hemp oil will not affect the chemotherapy ?

Sigh ... dont waste your time with nonsense let the oncologists do their thing. If you effect the bioavailability of the chemo by using rubbish you can cause the chemo to fail as it it most chemotherapies have poor BA.

What chemotherapy is she on ? keep in minde stage 3 cancer is beyond anything you can do for her, if it was a viable option it would be on sale and available to patients so dont listen to the "its was banned for money" on the internet. If you can get rid of cancer pains with cannibis/hemp/cocaine it would be available. The patients are on narcotic class painkillers anyways

I know the people who think they know more than me are going to post against this but consider this. Drugs move across the body by plasma protein binding. THe more fat soluble the drug the easier it binds to the proteins and maintains therapeutic availability in the body. If you distrupt this you can cause more free drug to circulate and be eliminated hence decreasing the efficacy of the drug. This will cause the chemotherapy to fail. Its a delicate situation - and if you disrupt it with untested nonsense you will be the result she dies. So dont play games with this kind of thing - its out of your hands leave it at that. Its hard yes but there is nothing you can do, simply support and aid in ways you can.

That said, I am still fascinated by the general medicinal possibilities of cannabis. It's a pity there's not more research able to be done...

there is more research than you can possibly read. You just dont have access to it.

There are over 30 000 journal papers on it. Thats just on THC alone

and most of them say its rubbish when compared to curretn available therapeutics
 
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copacetic

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RiaX, there ain't a snowball's chance in hell I am ever again wasting the time and effort to discuss this sort of thing with you. You've already started with the 'you don't have access' bull****, and that's only one ****ing post in...

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OP, take RiaX's utterances with a pinch of salt.

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/464811-RiaX
 

F4bio

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RiaX, there ain't a snowball's chance in hell I am ever again wasting the time and effort to discuss this sort of thing with you. You've already started with the 'you don't have access' bull****, and that's only one ****ing post in...

***

OP, take RiaX's utterances with a pinch of salt.

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/464811-RiaX

Kk, I've got to wait a few weeks to see if she responds to the chemo. If I do do anything "alternative" it will be after that.

In the mean time she's on the most hardcore narcotic's out there, oxycontin-oxycodone, oxynorm ir- oxycodone, durogesic- fentynyl(a lot stronger than morphine), (high doses too!) and a morphine infusion, and morphine IM if needed. I saw her today and she was RELATIVELY comfortable and that was after intensive physio - which I can't even imagine how she find the strenth to do.
 

wrathex

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The whole truth about cannabis and cancer:
- it alleviates chemotherapy nausea
- it stimulates appetite
- help with constipation
- it help patient relax

That is all.
 

copacetic

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The whole truth about cannabis and cancer:
- it alleviates chemotherapy nausea
- it stimulates appetite
- help with constipation
- it help patient relax

That is all.

I've certainly seen the pain-alleviating potential of cannabis in action. Which is not to say of course, that it is some sort of miraculous pain reliever, but I have seen it used in people with chronic pain conditions, to great effect.

Interestingly, the hemp oil, in relation to smoked cannabis, is quite different chemically, due to changes that take place when the various chemicals are heated beyond a certain temperature.

From what I have gathered, some of the more therapeutic actions of the compounds within cannabis exist before being chemically changed by heating, hence why I think if people are going to try use it medically, a method of ingesting that does not involve heat is preferable.

***

In any event, if all it does is what you've listed, wrathex, that already seems a pretty good outcome, all things considered.
 
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RiaX

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You've already started with the 'you don't have access' bull****

because its fact. People like you who read one or two cases and then think you know everything and act like you have read all the literature in the world.

You have never seen a clinical trial let alone managed a single person clinically. You are no different than those who blindly persue the ban of substances except you on the other side of the fence.

As i said cancer isnt just "cancer" as most people think. Its dynamic and each drug is dynamic and depends on the specific cellular nature. Its the most difficult field of science and the world's best have almost zero solutons BUT here you are thinking you know better. Selectively targeting mammalian cells isnt a simple task but then again you totally know all of this isnt ? you know how the compounds from cannabis cant displace drugs bound onto plasma proteins like albumin (ironically you also have no idea what drugs the OP's mother is using are you psychic as well?) and disrupt the plasma equilibrium. Im sure you aware of the log kill thats required for cancer as well.

remind me again what you do? are you a chemist ? doctor ? master in medicine ? phD ?

lol even resorting to a pathetic little thread you started. Argumentum ad populum means jack and you know this

@ OP

you can take my advice or not, but im telling you not to go the herbal route because at stage 3 cancer even the smallest disruption of treatment can be fatal. Even so there is no guarantee with treatment. If you dont achieve the desired 100% log kill, it will come back even if you are deammed "cancer free". It can also manifest as new cancers in the later stages. So leave it to the specialists who are exprienced in the field and trained

ever wondered why people who have defeated cancer always end up getting another one? it only takes one cell ... just ONE cell
 
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RiaX

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Allow me to quote a few medical reviews of cannabinoids in medicine.

Cannabinoids are divided into phytocannabinoids,endogenous endocannabinoids, and synthetic cannabinoids. More than 60 phytocannabinoids have been identified within the cannabis plant. The primary phytocannabinoid respon- sible for cannabis’ psychoactive and physiological effects is delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).

THC is highly protein bound in the blood but the steady state volume of distribution is large (approximately 10 L/kg) due to its lipophilicity. THC’s half-life (t1/2) is variable based on the route of administration and dose but can be generally characterized by an initial t1/2 of 3–4 h, followed by a terminal t1/2 of 25–36 h with low levels of drug being eliminated over a longer period of time due to its large volume of distribution

This is why its dangerous to use with chemotherapy as it can displace the chemo in circulation.

Detectable levels of THC can be found in the urine for up to 12 days after use due to extensive enterohepatic recirculation of metabolites; however, this period could be longer for regular users

For those worried about urine tests, there you go :)

By contrast, cannabis smoke is carcinogenic in rodents and mutagenic in the Ames test. Cannabis smoke contains several of the same carcinogens as tobacco smoke at up to 50% higher concentrations and with three times the tar per cigarette. Respiratory mucosa exposed to chronic cannabis smoke shows pre-neoplastic histological and molecular changes

hospital-based case–control study, ever users of cannabis had a 2.6-fold (95% CI 1.1–6.6) increased risk of head and neck squamous cell carcinoma

heavy cannabis smokers in Northern Africa had an odds ratio of 2.62 (95% CI 1–6.86) for nasopharyngeal carcinomas

In experimental models of acute pain, inhaled cannabis resulted in dose-dependent pain relief whereas cannabis extracts had no effect
(remember smoking cannibis is carcinogenic and its only stronger than a placebo)

A subsequent randomized, double-blinded trial from Europe for patients with cancer-associated anorexia found no difference in weight gain or quality of life at 6 weeks for patients treated with cannabis extract (THC 2.5 mg daily and CBD 1 mg daily) or THC (2.5 mg daily) compared to patients given placebo

Patients given cannabinoids had increased side effects. The data for cannabinoids in cancer-associated anorexia based on these three randomized studies are weak and the data for inhaled cannabis for cancer-associated cachexia are lacking

taken from:

Grotenhermen F. Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of cannabinoids. Clin Pharmacokinet 2003;42:327–60.

Strasser F. Comparison of orally administered cannabis extract and Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol in treating patients with cancer-related anorexia–cachexia syndrome: a multicenter, phase III, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial from the Cannabis-In-Cachexia-Study-Group. J Clin Oncol 2006;24:3394–400.

Novotny M, Lee ML, Bartle KD. A possible chemical basis for the higher mutagenicity of marijuana smoke as compared to tobacco smoke. Experientia 1976;32:280–2

Moir D, Rickert WS, Levasseur G, et al. A comparison of main-stream and sidestream marijuana and tobacco cigarette smoke produced under two machine smoking conditions. Chem Res Toxicol 2008;21:494–502

Singh R, Sandhu J, Kaur B, et al. Evaluation of the DNA dam-aging potential of cannabis cigarette smoke by the determination of acetaldehyde derived N2-ethyl-2 -deoxyguanosine adducts. ChemRes Toxicol 2009;22:1181–8.

Anyone who reads these articles and doesnt have basic physiology or pharmacology will see grand epic results for cannibis and its family. HOWEVER its only superior by 10 - 30 % against a placebo NOT its pharmaceutical rivals.
 

RiaX

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The whole truth about cannabis and cancer:
- it alleviates chemotherapy nausea
- it stimulates appetite
- help with constipation
- it help patient relax

That is all.

Yes its shown to have anti-emmetic activity.

Its antianorexia effect is non existant, although your appetite will increase there is an increase in wastage in the body as it stimuates intracellular metabolic pathways. There is a net loss

Relaxing would be subjective but generally yes it does relax the patient. Though its effect is less than that of ativan.
 

DrJohnZoidberg

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I read an interesting article a while back regarding this hemp oil business. Basically it boiled down to the fact that while they have had some success in certain trials with THC they also have had the same results with things like broccoli (can't remember exactly, but is was a veggie). I will see if I can find that site again.
 

copacetic

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still havent said what you do for a living.

Don't recall remotely suggesting I was going to? :confused:

I can assure you that I have zero qualifications or professional experience in any field involving this particular subject matter, and have never suggested otherwise.

And if I did, I would not be trumpeting it at every opportunity, as information should stand on its own merits, without resorting to what amounts to an appeal to authority.
 

maumau

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Don't recall remotely suggesting I was going to? :confused:

I can assure you that I have zero qualifications or professional experience in any field involving this particular subject matter, and have never suggested otherwise.

And if I did, I would not be trumpeting it at every opportunity, as information should stand on its own merits, without resorting to what amounts to an appeal to authority.

How disappointing Copa, you neglected to copy and paste from a variety of alternative medicine sites and cite a bunch of names at the end. I hope you aren't too stupid to understand those big scientific phrases that clever Riax uses :)
 

maumau

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That's bad news f4bio, sorry to hear about your mom :-(
 
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