Muslim Judicial Council issues short fatwa on homosexuality

[Ockie]

You mean of all gay men in ZA, not a single one comes from Islamic background/family?

South African Muslims are moderate compared to their ME brothers. I don't think they subscribe to Sharia but I'll leave this to them to verify. My opinion and judgement may be completely off.

I am sure there are quite a few. In fact, there is a gay muslim peep on mybb, or used to be anyway. Cant remember his name now. I personally think that where islam is in the minority, they tend to be moderate. Where they are in the majority, things go pear shaped. Also, even though you consider the muslims in SA moderate, we only see what they put out to the public to see. I think young gay muslims have a hard time with acceptance from family and their community in general. But I could be wrong of course. And it is not to say you dont have issues in other faiths, but I do think other faiths have made progress in being more accepting compared to islam.

 

[mercurial]

Anyone surprised by this?

Question, if a gay man or woman chooses to rather leave the faith because of their orientation and the faiths view of it, would they still be stoned or thrown off a building for being a apostate, or would they be stoned for being gay, or would they be stoned for both? So many choices. What a awesome religion.

That may be ME culture but it's certainly not Islamic.

 

[SlinkyMike]

Oh dear. Quite the Conservative Conundrum we have here! Side with Muslims or stand up for the rights of gays? What do? What... do?

I wonder if a ...dare I say it... progressive outlook might help tame this fierce conundrum? Nah, rather stick to bronze age superstition in this, the year of your lords 2022.

 

[konfab]

Oh dear. Quite the Conservative Conundrum we have here! Side with Muslims or stand up for the rights of gays? What do? What... do?

I wonder if a ...dare I say it... progressive outlook might help tame this fierce conundrum? Nah, rather stick to bronze age superstition in this, the year of your lords 2022.

There is absolutely no conundrum. They have freedom of religion, and should have their private property rights protected. If they don't want certain people on their property and to be a part of their community, that is their problem.
The "LGBTWTFKKK911WTF" progressive movement doesn't understand this concept. If someone doesn't want to bake your wedding cake, give someone else the business. If someone doesn't want to host your wedding, give someone else the business. What you don't do is force a private business into serving you.
Likewise, if a gay nightclub doesn't want Muslims to enter, that is their problem.

 

[C4Cat]

Anyone surprised by this?

Question, if a gay man or woman chooses to rather leave the faith because of their orientation and the faiths view of it, would they still be stoned or thrown off a building for being a apostate, or would they be stoned for being gay, or would they be stoned for both? So many choices. What a awesome religion.

I don't recall this ever happening in the SA Muslim community?

 

[Nerfherder]

Anyone surprised by this?

Question, if a gay man or woman chooses to rather leave the faith because of their orientation and the faiths view of it, would they still be stoned or thrown off a building for being a apostate, or would they be stoned for being gay, or would they be stoned for both? So many choices. What a awesome religion.

This is the same god who would allocate child brides to old men... so ye.

I'm more interested in what prompted this fatwa ? I wonder if there is some kind of LGBTQ movement within Islam that is gaining momentum and this is their response.

Is the MJC trying to me more relevant ?

 

[Ockie]

I don't recall this ever happening in the SA Muslim community?

Look at islam as whole, not just the SA community. The SA muslim community is small fry compared to the rest of the worlds islam community and what happens there.

 

[Nerfherder]

There is absolutely no conundrum. They have freedom of religion, and should have their private property rights protected. If they don't want certain people on their property and to be a part of their community, that is their problem.
The "LGBTWTFKKK911WTF" progressive movement doesn't understand this concept. If someone doesn't want to bake your wedding cake, give someone else the business. If someone doesn't want to host your wedding, give someone else the business. What you don't do is force a private business into serving you.
Likewise, if a gay nightclub doesn't want Muslims to enter, that is their problem.

So sort of like BBBEE then ?

MJC are trying to be polite but opens the doors to all kinds of abuse.
Remember as a non-Muslim you are dirty and can be treated as such.

 

[C4Cat]

Look at islam as whole, not just the SA community. The SA muslim community is small fry compared to the rest of the worlds islam community and what happens there.

It was the Muslim Judicial Council of South Africa that issued the statement.

 

[konfab]

So sort of like BBBEE then ?

How is it like BEE?

MJC are trying to be polite but opens the doors to all kinds of abuse.
Remember as a non-Muslim you are dirty and can be treated as such.

That is their problem. If your day is ruined by a bunch of ragheads who you will never interact with telling you that you are unclean, then the problem is on you.

 

[Grant]

The "LGBTWTFKKK911WTF" progressive movement doesn't understand this concept. If someone doesn't want to bake your wedding cake, give someone else the business. If someone doesn't want to host your wedding, give someone else the business. What you don't do is force a private business into serving you.

Try reading the hysteria in the Disney thread

 

[Ockie]

It was the Muslim Judicial Council of South Africa that issued the statement.

Does it make a difference really? The South African muslim council does not approve of gay people .... same as their brethren elsewhere in the world.

 

[Herr der Verboten]

Does it make a difference really? The South African muslim council does not approve of gay people .... same as their brethren elsewhere in the world.

They got to be really really careful: Imagine an omnipotent entity otherwise greater than universe itself being worried where you stick your penis.

 

[Ockie]

The "LGBTWTFKKK911WTF" progressive movement doesn't understand this concept. If someone doesn't want to bake your wedding cake, give someone else the business. If someone doesn't want to host your wedding, give someone else the business. What you don't do is force a private business into serving you.
Likewise, if a gay nightclub doesn't want Muslims to enter, that is their problem.

I a agree about the thing about the cake etc. What I do think though is that a business should put it up on display though that certain people will not be served though. If you are going to discriminate like that, then make it clear so people dont go to the trouble of doing business with you.

 

[ShaunSA]

You mean of all gay men in ZA, not a single one comes from Islamic background/family?

South African Muslims are moderate compared to their ME brothers. I don't think they subscribe to Sharia but I'll leave this to them to verify. My opinion and judgement may be completely off.

People tend to hide their true feelings when they're in a very small minority

Those moderates would quickly change under other circumstances

 

[porchrat]

There is absolutely no conundrum. They have freedom of religion, and should have their private property rights protected. If they don't want certain people on their property and to be a part of their community, that is their problem.
The "LGBTWTFKKK911WTF" progressive movement doesn't understand this concept. If someone doesn't want to bake your wedding cake, give someone else the business. If someone doesn't want to host your wedding, give someone else the business. What you don't do is force a private business into serving you.
Likewise, if a gay nightclub doesn't want Muslims to enter, that is their problem.

Interesting. In your opinion should those same companies also get to decide what sort of person they want to employ too? Like if they don't want to employ Muslims can they do that?

 

[C4Cat]

Does it make a difference really? The South African muslim council does not approve of gay people .... same as their brethren elsewhere in the world.

It makes a difference, yes. Not all Muslim communities are the same and they are not all extremists. So religions don't approve of gay people, what's new? Same as Catholics and Orthodox Jews and almost every other religion you can think of.

 

[Ockie]

It makes a difference, yes. Not all Muslim communities are the same and they are not all extremists. So religions don't approve of gay people, what's new? Same as Catholics and Orthodox Jews and almost every other religion you can think of.

True.

All I can say is this. I would rather go to Israel where there are lots of orthodox jews for a holiday compared to going to any of the muslim countries in the ME.

 

[porchrat]

It makes a difference, yes. Not all Muslim communities are the same and they are not all extremists. So religions don't approve of gay people, what's new? Same as Catholics and Orthodox Jews and almost every other religion you can think of.

It's mostly the Abrahamic religions that don't like the gays actually.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any significant number of Muslims that will agree that homosexuality is acceptable. Rejecting it is pretty core to the faith.

For example I saw a poll from the UK where over half the Muslims in that country thought homosexuality should be illegal. Note, not that they don't think it's morally acceptable, but ultimately a personal choice, that the country should actually make it illegal. This is the UK, a supposedly civilised first world country.

 

[Nerfherder]

How is it like BEE?

Well this country has decided it wants to only do business with a certain type of person... how is that different.
(for me its stupid and prejudicial either way you look at it.)

That is their problem. If your day is ruined by a bunch of ragheads who you will never interact with telling you that you are unclean, then the problem is on you.

You say that now... Imagine if your movement or job prospects were limited because of who you are.
What if there were areas where only Muslims could go.