MW and PPPoE ?

cluney · Aug 2, 2004

Just spend a good 6 hours trying to get "something" to work - problem is I dunno what!

I had MW working perfectly with USB. Now I want to share the connection through wifi router+4 port switch+1 WAN (PPPoE compatible).

From the PC side I can access router setup without problems, I can select PPPoE and specify username and password. Switched DHCP off and left rest of default settings intact.

Then.... NOTHING. Router software setup can't detect internet connection (althought the WAN active light is on, sometimes flickers a bit)... and also all my manual attempts was in vain.

Is there a way to check comms between router and MW ? I have not seen that the modem was detected by windoze at anytime (no downloading/promting of drivers). But then again PPPoE is supposed to be a simple connection.

Was there a lot of faulty LAN cables - I've seen that in other postings it was mentioned as a first 'fix' attempt... and then going back to older firmware???

Is there not a simple way to test comms from router to modem?

Thanks a lot if someone has any ideas.

dbnnet · Aug 2, 2004

http://www.myadsl.co.za/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4045

Bay of Plenty : Signal 48% - SNL 17 - ber 71% : D-Link DI-604 - PPPoE : 8dBi Patch Antenna : Firmware 4.2.1.8

cluney · Aug 2, 2004

Thx dbnnet

I did read ur post (and most others relating to PPoE) - my router don't have a always on setting and I don't have a dynamic PPPoE setting... although I assume the connection will be always 'on' if the router is loaded with the login and password.

Is your MW always connected??? what do you do if you dont want it connected for some reason???

The Dr.TCP - dunno what that is will search sometime.

The defrag ping thingy.... 548 (kinda ashamed of that sheesh - thats on USB if it makes a difference). My current MTU is around 1400 and i know I will have to lower that.... but first wanna be able to 'see' the modem or internet connection.

Should windows be able to detect the modem through the router - I'm still not happy about LAN cable between router and modem and need to check that somehow.

Thx again

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dbnnet
 http://www.myadsl.co.za/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4045

Bay of Plenty : Signal 48% - SNL 17 - ber 71% : D-Link DI-604 - PPPoE : 8dBi Patch Antenna : Firmware 4.2.1.8
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

dbnnet · Aug 3, 2004

cluney,
Many of the decent routers have three settings, "Always on", "Manual" & "Network Activity".
Most have a web interface that offers an overide "connect" and "disconnect" button.

I'm concerned that you don't have a "dynamic" option. This is a must in my opinion.

As for drTCP, this is important, and your problem may well be a MTU setting that is too high.
(http://www.dslreports.com/drtcp Latest version is 2.1 )

As for your MTU of 548, I see that Noswal is using Win98SE, and had a low result of 576.
This is probably operating system related. But I have not had the chance to try this myself.

As for using USB ... the IPW drivers are supposed to over-ride these settings, but I have some
doubts about this based on my own experience.

As for detecting the modem.... no, windows can only see a connection, not the actual modem itself.
Hopefully someone like ProAsm will write an interface one day.

Bay of Plenty : Signal 48% - SNL 17 - ber 71% : D-Link DI-604 - PPPoE : 8dBi Patch Antenna : Firmware 4.2.1.8

chuckl · Aug 3, 2004

Cluney, what make and model of router are you trying to use?

cluney · Aug 4, 2004

Okays... a few more hours and no progress. Even worse I will be out of the country for the next month or so - can't do much then.

Just some background - I also run Win98SE (on a laptop, hav also XP Pro on it but leave it intact as it hav to connect to company intranet) and have a Belkin F5D7230 (from UK) wireless router, incorporating 4port switch, 1 WAN and 802.11g for wifi (so not really ancient technology). I bought the Belkin cos I was a few years ago really impressed with a mouse from them... and also on a opinions site like epinions.com the router had good scores. Including good marks for ease of use. Sheesh - supposed to hav a 3 minute setup!

Anyway... router WAN options are:-
1) Dynamic (require host name)
2) Static (require ISP fixed IP)
3) PPPoE (require Username+password, optional service name, MTU)
4) PPTP (specified for European countries only, need settings)
5) Telstra Bigpond (Australia only)

In manual I read that PPPoE is actually Dynamic PPPoE - so thats OK.

On router setup there is a "Connected to Internet" indication. If I choose 1) Dynamic the connection is failed. Used host as dummy www.sentech.co.za. If I use 3) PPPoE router reports "Connected to Internet". I played around with this - I messed up my username and still it reports as connected to internet!!! So either my username+password is of no importance, or else its lying.

I observe with USB that a proper authenticated modem connection is indicated with solid green light on modem. With LAN/PPPoE the green keeps on flashing, even though its supposed to be connected. No wonder I can't get traffic through, so again I think its not really getting my authentication info... or don't get the "activate the darn connection please" indication.

On PPPoE I tried to change MTU. The router is limited to settings between 1440 and 1454... so my 548 is offscale. Left it at default 1454 (lots of warnings not to touch this default setting)

In Control Panel/Network settings I changed adapter for "PPP over Ethernet" for the network interface to its minimum value... think that was 576, can't go lower. I think DrTCP is also pointing to this MTU value. No changes observed.

What is RWIN - don't see it on DrTCP either??? My RWIN is about 108x1.6x128/8=2764. Don't know what to do with that.

Dumb question.... but:-
My router LAN IP is 192.168.2.1 (default setting). I see on the router WAN setup that WAN IP is 192.168.168.220 (not changeable, comes when selecting PPPoE). It says the default gateway is 192.168.168.2.

NOWWWW... how do the PC know what path to follow to 'find' the internet??? The router setup only said to make sure all tick boxes is cleared on the PC LAN Internet\Connections settings eg. Automatically detect settings and using of Proxy server etc.

On my LAN setup the local IP is 192.168.2.2, and no gateway is specified (did try router IP's no success either)... and I can't see any mapping specifically to the router. How is the PC supposed to know where to look for internet??? I think the PPPoE is for comms between Router and Modem and not for comms between PC and Router ???

I seen somewhere a posting of something like a "contracting service" (possibly totally wrong spelling, just looked something like it!) that needs to be running - in my simple mind something like a USB conrollers... something that detect a new connection and manage addressing of such devices.

In my opinion my PC have no idea that there is a router connected to it, and absolutely NO idea that there is a modem on the other end that it is supposed to communicate with!!!

So that brings me to the thought that somehow the 'connection' still needs to be manually initiated with a 'dial-up' type activation. When installing MW with Ethernet option the MW dialer icon appear on the desktop. When trying to open it it says modem can't be found. In router setup they described to use Start\Run\RASPPPOE to create a PPPoE dialup connection (think this is more applicable for ADSL where modem is part of router box). Again there is a place for Name and Password but then it times out and says remote did not answer.

So in brief...
I don't think MW modem cares much for user authentication it currently receives from Router via PPPoE - thats if it receive the information at all; seemingly its not reaching modem (green light keep flashing). Possibly need some sort of connection activation by User eg. a dial-up connection initiation. My router do not have 'always' ON settings to keep trying to activate the connection.

Secondly I wonder how the PC is supposed to know about the router located at 192.168.2.1 ... and the MW modem that is connected further downstream on the WAN port. You said the PC will not detect the modem but it should see the connection. Are not happening here so far.

Maybe you hav some ideas to confuse me further ???

Thanks again for your input - I'll probably follow this up with new enthusiasm in a months time when I return. In the mean time I will monitor this posting looking for ideas!

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dbnnet
 cluney,
Many of the decent routers have three settings, "Always on", "Manual" & "Network Activity".
Most have a web interface that offers an overide "connect" and "disconnect" button.

I'm concerned that you don't have a "dynamic" option. This is a must in my opinion.

As for drTCP, this is important, and your problem may well be a MTU setting that is too high.
(http://www.dslreports.com/drtcp Latest version is 2.1 )

As for your MTU of 548, I see that Noswal is using Win98SE, and had a low result of 576.
This is probably operating system related. But I have not had the chance to try this myself.

As for using USB ... the IPW drivers are supposed to over-ride these settings, but I have some
doubts about this based on my own experience.

As for detecting the modem.... no, windows can only see a connection, not the actual modem itself.
Hopefully someone like ProAsm will write an interface one day.

Bay of Plenty : Signal 48% - SNL 17 - ber 71% : D-Link DI-604 - PPPoE : 8dBi Patch Antenna : Firmware 4.2.1.8
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

chuckl · Aug 4, 2004

Cluney, I have a similar Belkin unit in the UK, except it is also an ADSL modem. Nice gear.

To use with MyWireless, you need to do a MyWireless install, and say that you are using Ethernet, not USB, AFTER having logged on with the USB connection to set up your account. This installs the ethernet PPPOE drivers. On the Belkin,you need to set it to use PPPOE, enter your login details, and an MTU of 1458 or so and that should be all.

('Obviously' an ethernet cable, reset modem, green light on cable, reboot PC, etc are also necessary)

Good luck, call if does not work

chuckl · Aug 4, 2004

P.S. the first ethernet cable I got was unworkable, modem was faulty.....

cluney · Aug 5, 2004

Thanx!

I've many times had to install USB drivers... uninstall, install eithernet drivers backwards and forwards.

So yes, my account has been set up no problems on USB side. But as soon as I try to use the Eithernet install nothing happens.

Which brings me back to the first post... how do I know if the network cable between modem and router is not working???

How do you connect to internet... is the router continiously trying to establish connection with modem as soon as it is powered on ?... or do you have to initiate a 'dial-up' type of command. If you use the IPW Dialer on desktop... do you aslo get msg that modem was not found... or can you see it + your signal strenght/tower info etc???

Cheers man... will follow up with you in a months time

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chuckl
 Cluney, I have a similar Belkin unit in the UK, except it is also an ADSL modem. Nice gear.

To use with MyWireless, you need to do a MyWireless install, and say that you are using Ethernet, not USB, AFTER having logged on with the USB connection to set up your account. This installs the ethernet PPPOE drivers. On the Belkin,you need to set it to use PPPOE, enter your login details, and an MTU of 1458 or so and that should be all.

('Obviously' an ethernet cable, reset modem, green light on cable, reboot PC, etc are also necessary)

Good luck, call if does not work
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

cluney · Aug 5, 2004

BTW... green light on cable between modem and router WAN is solidly green ON... should'nt it be flashing a bit to indicate data flow?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chuckl
 P.S. the first ethernet cable I got was unworkable, modem was faulty.....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Brolloks · Aug 5, 2004

no flashing. It indicates a link, same as any LAN card. Orange light on LAN cards or NIC is for data transfer, so since the Ethernet cable has no orange it means that it can't indicate data transfer.

JAS · Aug 5, 2004

Hi cluney,

Here is some info on using a router with the IPW modem. I hope this helps you get up and running, and answers some of the questions you have asked earlier in this thread.

The first thing is obviously to get your router to talk to the modem via PPPoE over the Ethernet cable and to make the actual Internet connection. Once that is done, you can sort out getting all your PCs to access the internet.

Yes you are correct, you should be using option "3) PPPoE (require Username+password, optional service name, MTU)" on your router. You must setup your username and password on the router, and you can leave the service name blank. The maximum MTU that you can use on MyWireless is 1458, so the 1454 default of your router should be fine. Just as for USB, the solid green light on the modem also means that a connection has been made when using PPPoE and the Ethernet cable, so if it is still flashing then it means that the modem is seeing a valid signal from the tower but you are not "connected" to the network. Likewise, when using PPPoE the orange Rx/Tx lights on the modem also flash when there is Ethernet comms activity, so if these lights are not flashing when the router tries to talk to the modem then you may have a cable problem. Another thing to watch out for is that the modem is a 10Base-T device ONLY. Make sure the router WAN interface is set to 10Base-T or to autospeed select. If the router is set to 100Base-T only then it will NOT work. The green light on the cable just indicates a cable "link" connection and it does not flash when there is activity. Also setup the router to get all the Internet IP information dynamically, and enable any firewall features of the router. Most routers will continuously try to connect. On one of the router pages you may also find a button to connect/disconnect manually. You may also find a checkbox (or similar feature) to enable auto-reconnect if the connection is dropped.

Hopefully at this point you now have the router talking to the modem, and connected to the internet (solid green light on the modem).

The client PCs know how to get out to the Internet because of the "default gateway" IP address, which should be set to IP address of your router. The most convenient way to get all the TCP/IP settings correct on the client PCs is to get them automatically from the router. Thus you need to set the "TCP/IP" properties of the "Network LAN Connection" of all the client PCs to "Obtain an IP Address automatically". You need to configure the router to be a DHCP server, which means that it will automatically issue unique IP addresses (in a defined range) to the PCs on the network. It will also provide these PCs with the correct "Subnet Mask" and IP addresses for the DNS server.

It worries me that you said "In Control Panel/Network settings I changed adapter for "PPP over Ethernet" for the network interface ...". You don't setup PPPoE on ANY of the client PCs, and any PPPoE software on the client PCs should be removed. The network properties on the Client PCs are nothing special (just TCP/IP protocol installed, and set to "Obtain an IP Address automatically", which is the default setting). The only extra thing that you will have to do on every client PC is to run DrTCP and set the MTU to match the MTU set in the router (in your case 1454). Make all the other DrTCP fields in DrTCP either "default" or blank. (Make sure you have select the LAN network interface from the dropdown list). You will need to reboot for the new values to become effective.

In the "Connections" tab of "Internet Options" of IE set "Never dial a connection" and under "LAN Settings" make sure that none of the items are checked. Set up your email client connection properties to use the IE settings.

The client PCs don't actually know that there is a router doing the Internet - They just know that if the requested IP address doesn't match the local IP and subnet mask, then the request must be sent out to the default gateway address. You can use IPCONFIG (WinNT/2k/XP) or WINIPCFG (Win98) to see what IP address the PC has been allocated as well as the subnet mask, default gateway and DNS server addresses.

dbnnet · Aug 5, 2004

"It says the default gateway is 192.168.168.2"

Thats also a problem! Your default gateway setting
on your PC MUST point to the router's ip address
which you said is 192.168.168.1

I agree with JAS's "PPP over Ethernet" statement ... this is not needed on the PC??
But I don't recommend using the router as DHCP server though!
(Every 10 minitues or so you may well experience a short freeze!!!)

Bay of Plenty : Signal 48% - SNL 17 - ber 71% : D-Link DI-604 - PPPoE : 8dBi Patch Antenna : Firmware 4.2.1.8

chuckl · Aug 5, 2004

Most routers that use a browser based management interface have a connect or test connection option on the PPPOE or status pages. If you click on that you should see the modem activity lights flashing.
JAS is also right that setting 10baseT and half duplex is very important

cluney · Aug 8, 2004

Thanx JAS dbnnet and chuckl,

Chuckl... does your Belkin router hav a connect/dicsonnect/test connection option? Mine don't. Only way I could test was to change WAN connection option, it automatically try to 'test' the new connection type; and then reports "connected to internet" or "failed or sumthing". With PPPoE it reports "connected to internet" (irrespective of Username) even tho I still hav flashing green on modem. liar !

JAS... all 'work' was on a single PC... basically the one thats used to access the router setup and one that will one day (hopefully) be connected to the internet thru router! The "PPPoE over Ethernet" option (control panel\network settings) became available after installing the IPW "Ethernet" option... its something thats loaded by IPW (even loads an almost duplicate set each time!). I can mess with MTU but not much else... and basically DrTCP point to this MTU value in registry anyway. So do it in Config or do it in DrTCP - its the same result.

Still... in principle I should not need to mess about. 3 Minute setup remember!

Something is wrong and its either the cable or the modem itself. I can still try the 10bT but I'm sure its anyway 10bT as the Win98 loads a 10bT network config set and WinXP loads 100bT (and I'm not using WinXP for MW). Think I did see LAN setup and left it at 10bT cos I know I connect on 10bT to router.

For the rest, pretty much hav been thru it all.... except the bit where you are supposed to get the solid green and flashing RX/TX on the modem to indicate authenticated internet connection and (inter)net traffic.

Once back I will go look someone up with PPPoE and take my modem+cable and test it on their set.

Thanx guys!

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chuckl
 Most routers that use a browser based management interface have a connect or test connection option on the PPPOE or status pages. If you click on that you should see the modem activity lights flashing.
JAS is also right that setting 10baseT and half duplex is very important
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cluney · Aug 8, 2004

tx brollocks too

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cluney
 Thanx JAS dbnnet and chuckl,

blah blah blah
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[/quote]

chuckl · Aug 8, 2004

You're welcome Cluney,

Unit I have is an ethernet ADSL/cable router & modem with 4 port switch and 802.11g wireless. It's about 4 months since I set it up, but as I remember it had connect, disconnect and test connect buttons. User interface in the browser admin was a bit arcane tho. It was also connecting to Pipex ADSL via PPPOE, not MW or similar. Just to stress again,the MTU size setting has to be done on the router, not just the client PC's.
Should also stress again, when I first tried an ethernet connection to a router I had similar problems, and it turned out to be a faulty modem

JAS · Aug 9, 2004

It's a pleasure cluney. My first modem also had a hardware problem - worked perfectly with USB but not with the Ethernet cable. Just to clarify something - it is the WAN port on the router that has to be set to 10Base-T - The LAN ports on the router and the PCs can be still be 100Base-T. Actually, you can test the modem's Ethernet port using the supplied IPW software's "Ethernet" connection option. In this case you need to plug the modem's Ethernet cable DIRECTLY into your PC. But just remember that is a completely different setup scenario.

Two more things you could try: Firstlty, go to the Belkin website and see if there is a firmware upgrade for your router, and update to the latest version. Secondly, with all the messing arround it is possible that you have got the router into a totally confused state. If the router has a hardware reset button use that to restore all the factory default settings, and then start the configuration from scratch. Oh, and what firmware is your modem using - Although 4.2.1.1 works, I did find 4.2.1.8 more reliable with an Ethernet setup. Tell us where you are situated.

MW and PPPoE ?

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