MWEB peering cuts ‘a storm in a teacup’ says MTN Business

Gatecrasher

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Going back to the two for one example. If MTN serves 100mb and MWEB serves 50mb, the difference is 50mb. MWEB has to cover the bill to receive the 100mb before peering. To make it real, lets say its R1000 per mbps. If MTN says, at least pay the difference at transit less 50%, it would mean MWEB has to pay for 50mb at 50% of the normal transit cost. This means after peering MWEB only pays 25% of the original R100k they were paying or in other words R25k after peering. MWEB received a 75k benefit out of the deal. MTN on the other hand where paying 50k for 50mb. After peering this 50k cost is written off and they receive the R25k difference fee, which equals to a R75K benefit to MTN.

Where is MTN's 100mb coming from? From content providers who have already paid MTN for the 100mb.
Where is MTN's 100mb going to? To the MWeb customers who have already paid MWEB for the 100mb.

Where is MWeb's 50mb coming from? From content providers who have already paid MWeb for the 50mb.
Where is Mweb's 50mb going to? To MTN customers who have already paid MTN for the 50mb.

Both MTN and MWeb have been paid for the 150mb of traffic.

There is no reason on this good earth why MWeb and MTN need to exchange one single cent.
 
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FlatspinZA

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No, only you are a troll (which has just signed up for a mybb account) that is trying to defend Telkom and thus you're making retarded comments to try and get the change the perception / angle that you're coming from. Very easy to see you're a troll by reading the first 10 posts you've made.
Nothing to see here, keep on moving.

So, by your definition anyone who has just signed up on MYBB is a troll. I'm the TROLL & don't you forget it! :p
 

FlatspinZA

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Where is MTN's 100mb coming from? From content providers who have already paid MTN for the 100mb.
Where is MTN's 100mb going to? To the MWeb customers who have already paid MWEB for the 100mb.

Where is MWeb's 50mb coming from? From content providers who have already paid MWeb for the 50mb.
Where is Mweb's 50mb going to? To MTN customers who have already paid MTN for the 50mb.

Both MTN and MWeb have been paid for the 150mb of traffic.

There is no reason on this good earth why MWeb and MTN need to exchange one single cent.

+1
 

johnelis

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So, by your definition anyone who has just signed up on MYBB is a troll. I'm the TROLL & don't you forget it! :p

Thanks for the support, I was starting to feel a little unwelcome as a newbie to this forum. I did take comfort from the fact that anyone going against the flow seemed to be labeled in some way.

Wish we could get more real comment from people who understand both sides of the story.
 

FlatspinZA

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Thanks for the support, I was starting to feel a little unwelcome as a newbie to this forum. I did take comfort from the fact that anyone going against the flow seemed to be labeled in some way.

Wish we could get more real comment from people who understand both sides of the story.

You welcome, we've all got to start somewhere - if you talk collywobbles expect to get shot down in a hurry.

I don't know enough about how peering works to offer any words of wisdom, though it would seem that GateCrasher's last comment just about sums it up: ISP's are already being paid by their customers for the services they provide, why should they pay each other?
 

johnelis

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You welcome, we've all got to start somewhere - if you talk collywobbles expect to get shot down in a hurry.

I don't know enough about how peering works to offer any words of wisdom, though it would seem that GateCrasher's last comment just about sums it up: ISP's are already being paid by their customers for the services they provide, why should they pay each other?


The point I am not understanding is how a hosting company can simply set up a facility, connect into a peering point for free and start providing services which other ISPs then take to their consumers. This sounds a little too good to be true? There seems to be a business case here is MWeb is going to allow this.
 

davemc

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I am siding strongly with gatecrasher's logic.

But, besides that logic, the real measure of "value" on the internet is not amount of data transferred.
Other factors include:
1. the speed that the data can be delivered
2. the size of the user base requesting the data
3. the nature of the data (e.g. The only website for a bank / the only BattleField game hosted in South Africa) (Exclusive services)

I can see clearly that MWeb has a strong and growing number 2 (user base), and have realised that their bargaining strength has changed completely.
In addition, MWeb have to keep their edge, with other ISP's hot on their uncapped heels, which means finding cash for more bandwidth throughput from their existing expenditure.
This should result in a better uncapped product from MWeb.
 
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Hotmetal

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So, by your definition anyone who has just signed up on MYBB is a troll. I'm the TROLL & don't you forget it! :p

You signed up in 2008. Troll = someone who just created an account to make ridiculous statements / taking the piss. If he wants to talk and ask questions to further his knowledge, that is one thing.. But to open the way he did, talking a big load of crap, thats a whole different story. == Troll.
 

Hotmetal

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The point I am not understanding is how a hosting company can simply set up a facility, connect into a peering point for free and start providing services which other ISPs then take to their consumers.

The company still has to pay for a link into CINX/JINX.
 

MickeyD

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You signed up in 2008. Troll = someone who just created an account to make ridiculous statements / taking the piss. If he wants to talk and ask questions to further his knowledge, that is one thing.. But to open the way he did, talking a big load of crap, thats a whole different story. == Troll.
And how did you start? Why not stay on topic and RP posts that you consider not worthy?
 

johnelis

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I am siding strongly with gatecrasher's logic.

I can see clearly that MWeb has a strong and growing number 2 (user base), and have realised that their bargaining strength has changed completely.
In addition, MWeb have to keep their edge, with other ISP's hot on their uncapped heels, which means finding cash for more bandwidth throughput from their existing expenditure.
This should result in a better uncapped product from MWeb.

I think you are correct with the statement that other ISPs are hot on their heels. Telkom's announcement that they will be providing their new "Lite" product shows that MWeb was getting some traction from uncapped. I see that the Telkom product seems to be aimed at MWeb's competitors. The big thing here is that Telkom owns the DSL platform and are in the position to "distribute" costs in such a way MWeb will not be able to compete on the basic infrastructure. Thinking about this, the consumer pays Telkom for the DSL line, MWeb pays Telkom for the line to connect to the DSL infrastructure, MWeb was paying Telkom to peer, MWeb pays Telkom for national infrastructure, etc, etc... Maybe that is the issue here, the costs are just getting too much to sustain the uncapped model !
 

Drunkard #1

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Just the one liner kind? Please take the time to demonstrate your intellectual prowess and wisdom on the subject.

Everything I have to say has already been said, and I'm not the type to +1 every post I agree with. Lets just apply Occam's razor, either several dozen intelligent, informed IT professionals "don't get it", or you work for MTN's public relations department, and you're trying to spread FUD. Option two seems more likely.
 

Vrotappel

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Funny how one cannot go against the flow without being labeled. Believe me I have no elegance to Telkom other than the fact that my ADSL connection (when it is working which it is not at the moment, they say it is planned maintenance), is pretty much better than 3G and all the other stuff out there. My opinion is simply that I do not believe the agenda here is totally straight.

Whose agenda do you trust - the guys that charge R2 a Mb or the guys that provide cheap uncapped?
 

MickeyD

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Whose agenda do you trust - the guys that charge R2 a Mb or the guys that provide cheap uncapped?
Different technologies - ADSL vs 3G Mobile.
Compare apples with apples.

Do you honestly believe that MWeb are only doing this on behalf of their customers?

They are a BUSINESS and need to find alternate sources of revenue and methods to reduce costs in order to appease their shareholders.

Any business will look after their own back pocket first and then see how they can allow their customers to benefit as a consequence thereof.
 
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johnelis

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Whose agenda do you trust - the guys that charge R2 a Mb or the guys that provide cheap uncapped?

I suppose it depends on my needs, if it is for home non critical use cheap is good. I am sure if your business depends on it you would pay the premium.

My experience is that free and quality are on different planets. I suppose the word reciprocal may apply more aptly in this discussion.
 

nut123

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I suppose it depends on my needs, if it is for home non critical use cheap is good. I am sure if your business depends on it you would pay the premium.

My experience is that free and quality are on different planets. I suppose the word reciprocal may apply more aptly in this discussion.
Ah but you probably picked the wrong post to make that comment on ;) Those operators charging R2/MB are just ripping the consumers off, it's not even remotely about providing a better quality service.

But I understand your point. Just don't think it really applies here...
 

antowan

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The only thing I agree with:
“It is concerning for us (MTN) that this level of change is done in the peak of a business day.”

Also do not understand why MWeb could not do the change over the weekend.

For effect! Come on! Support the drive! THERE IS NO NO NO NO REASON THOSE LINKS SHOULD HAVE A PRICE TAG!!!!!!!!!
 
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