Naledi Pandor blames 'legacy of apartheid' for attacks on African foreigners

nightjar

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After 228 years of self rule, Haiti is a sh**hole and I wonder if Pandor would also blame apartheid for that - if she even knows the place exists.
 

Nanfeishen

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African Unity is definitely a myth; in the last few centuries African tribal groups had no incentive to expand or explore because they were able to prey on weaker neighbours
Or they were just too lazy , as it was easier to just steal and plunder.
No wonder the others left
Different millennium same s#@$.
 

Jase

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How many Zimbabweans of foreigners in general were here just after 94 compared to now?
Interesting you ask that. While I don't have numbers I do recall a conversation with a security manager (I think he worked for Bexforce) back in around '99. We were talking about how crime had spiked in the past few years and he stated that the new wave of crime was termed faceless crime in that the criminals were untraceable as a lot of the crime was from persons with no documentation in SA. He alluded to illegal foreigners as being one of the main reasons for the spike.
 

ForceFate

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The Amazon was also inhabited. There was no mass migration of people and ideas from West Africa due to the Congo Rainforests being a massive barrier and the all the problems crossing a tropical rainforest entails.
Africa's rain forest covers a relatively small area and is relatively accessible compared to the Amazon. Additionally, tropical diseases must have put people off migrating through the rainforest. Instead, they must have taken the longer route along the Nile...
 

Hellhound105

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In the year 2150 they will blame the legacy of the legacy of the legacy of apartheid and Jan van Riebeeck
 

BeerIsNotGood...

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The older the get the more I hate politicians. They are collectively incapable of actually owning up to any of their own mistakes and that is why they never seem to actually do anything constructive to get out of the messes they create.
And government?
 

WaxLyrical

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As much as this excuse to blame apartheid is becoming tiresome there's a few things to consider.

Most of these looters were born in the 80/90's and learnt their core values in subsequent years that its ok to steal and destroy.

Their parents lived in the apartheid era so you can't deny the effects getting passed down one generation.

Our current regime just exacerbates what is already messed up.
 

HBee

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Blame should be laid at the door of BEE and its entitlement generation.
 

Sinbad

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As much as this excuse to blame apartheid is becoming tiresome there's a few things to consider.

Most of these looters were born in the 80/90's and learnt their core values in subsequent years that its ok to steal and destroy.

Their parents lived in the apartheid era so you can't deny the effects getting passed down one generation.

Our current regime just exacerbates what is already messed up.
So it's not the legacy of apartheid. It;s the legacy of the ANC's campaign of civil disobedience and armed struggle.
 

Polymathic

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Africa's rain forest covers a relatively small area and is relatively accessible compared to the Amazon. Additionally, tropical diseases must have put people off migrating through the rainforest. Instead, they must have taken the longer route along the Nile...
How many Empires streched from West Africa into Southern Or East Africa before the colonial age?

The answer: 0

When you look at Eurasia (North Africa included) you had the Persian empire which connected northern Greece all the way to Northern India, the Greek Kingdoms which streched all the way to Central Asia which fought a war against China. Various Steppe empires which streched across Eurasia.
 

Pitbull

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Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I see Boko Haram is launching attacks on the SA Government and institutions... FUN TIMES!
 

thechamp

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Gauteng xenophobic violence: 10 of 12 victims were South Africans - defence minister
Ten of the 12 people who were killed over the last week in unrest and violence aimed at foreign nationals in Gauteng were South Africans, Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula has said.

Mapisa-Nqakula was briefing the media on behalf of justice and security cluster ministers in Parliament on Tuesday, following a week of violent protests and looting in Gauteng, and the Johannesburg CBD specifically.

"Incidents of violence flared up but were quickly dealt with around Jeppestown and Hillbrow. Ten people died on Sunday, bringing the total amount of fatalities to 12, 10 of which are South Africans and two are foreign nationals," she said in a statement.
 

Milano

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Interesting you ask that. While I don't have numbers I do recall a conversation with a security manager (I think he worked for Bexforce) back in around '99. We were talking about how crime had spiked in the past few years and he stated that the new wave of crime was termed faceless crime in that the criminals were untraceable as a lot of the crime was from persons with no documentation in SA. He alluded to illegal foreigners as being one of the main reasons for the spike.
A major policy of apartheid was keeping African foreigners out of SA. Sure some still got into SA but a fraction compared to those who have entered post '94. So I am not sure how she is blaming apartheid. If she is saying that apartheid destroyed moral fabric then there could be something there. But commonly xenophobia is internationally recognised as having two primary causes 1. An influx of high numbers of foreigners 2. Foreigners being a vulnerable group to lash out at and attack when the economy is weak. The blame for both the huge influx of illegal foreigners as well as the screwed up economy rest solely with the ANC. So she is just regurgitating typically dishonest anti-white rhetoric.
 

Corelli

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Well clearly she missed the entire tribal system. ie even the Zulus and Xhosas were at each other prior to the 1994 elections.

But also the South of Africa is doing much better than the north of Africa, and this again is religious based.

So tribal, religion, wealth, corruption and the list can go on and on are all factors.

I think what's really causing Xenophobia is how open our border is to illegal foreigners, and once here they claim refugee status. I really would like to know as to how many real refugees there are and from where they come. Not all African states has conflicts for people to claim Refugee status. ie you cant come from Nigeria and claim refugee status, unless you're christian. Or you cant come from Kenya and claim Refugee status unless you're muslim.

And it's time for the open border with Zimbabwe to be closed. Yes you can come through visa free, but not documented, and when you're visa expires, its time to go back.

And now with the NHI act, we have to pay for all the illegal 5 million foreigner's healthcare needs too? Seriously. I dont mind paying for the actual refugees, permanent residents and citizens, but all the illegal foreigners? Really. Thats where your problem is. People are being fed up to provide housing, and pay for it, let alone healthcare for anyone that's in our country illegally.

Why is our army or police force so bad at protecting our borders? And we have unemployment rate of 30%. If you make it better for your locals and give them the jobs to protect our country's borders, to protect their families, then we would be far better off financially.

This doesnt mean ban all foreigners, but send the illegals away and then let them apply legally like everyone else to stay here and bring investments here.

How can someone from Africa march in here illegally (by the millions) but someone from Europe or Asia needs to bring an investment of R12 million in. However this is still low.

That way we encourage more people with wealth to move here.
 

ponder

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I always like to refer to Japan as an example, where the country was post war and where it is today.
Look at the whole of southeast asia excluding countries that became communist (actually look at them too), colonialism there ended about the same time as in africa.
 

Corelli

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How many Empires streched from West Africa into Southern Or East Africa before the colonial age?

The answer: 0

When you look at Eurasia (North Africa included) you had the Persian empire which connected northern Greece all the way to Northern India, the Greek Kingdoms which streched all the way to Central Asia which fought a war against China. Various Steppe empires which streched across Eurasia.
Dude where did you get your history from? You forgot about the Egyptians, Kush (1000 years), Mali, Aksum, Carthaginia (Rome's biggest enemy), Great Zimbabwe to name but a few.

Actually a lot of the ancient African Empires were very rich and influential in trade between Europe and Asia too. Carthaginia was Rome's biggest enemy and almost sacked Rome (only to be defeated 20kms outside of Rome.)



Africa had great and still has great empires. Sure they didnt go invade one another and steal each other's riches as per the colonial times, but then again most of them just minded their own business and got on with trade.
 

Corelli

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Look at the whole of southeast asia excluding countries that became communist (actually look at them too), colonialism there ended about the same time as in africa.
Japan pre-war was a super power. A rich and widely expansive superpower that already controlled a lot of territory (Korea as an example) prior to World War 2.

A lot of South East Asian countries are actually pretty poor. Korea is there because of Japan in part and they were a puppet state of China before. Singapore was the main trading port in asia. China is also pretty poor, even though there is also wealth. But most barely have money to live. The government there is trying to fix it.

Thailand, Cambodia, Philippines, Indonesia and Burma is very poor. Sure tourism is helping, but a lot are extremely poor and you still have a lot of villagers.

Generally no one there is better off than here. They are stricter with their boarder controls.

I think a lot of people in their graves would turn over lately with the demand of entitlement. I think yes we need to regress the past, and fix a lot, but also to feel that you can sit at home and demand everything must be given or provided for you, is really bad.

People should have more pride and go out and work, or create work. We have Africa to the north and there is a lot of money we can make there, compared to letting the Chinese or the US try and run it. Things of all the job opportunities for engineering, building roads etc.

I think entitlement and lack of pride is the biggest obstacles. More should be done to assist South African businesses in fixing up and assisting other African states. Africa has a lot of resources, and why should things like Iphones suck all the resources from Africa?
 
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